To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

@MiddleParking

We used to include our travelling time to and from offices that weren’t ours even when we were drinking cans of M+S gin and tonic on the train back with laptops shut. It wasn’t like we were on those trains for the good of our health.

That's all pretty standard and acceptable from an employer point of view (maybe not the gin though during working time 🤣!)

It's all to do with where your contracted permanent place of work is.....if it's the office in City A then you can't class the commute time/cost as part of working time/expenses. If you have to go to the office in City B then both of those things are allowed (except some companies will deduct the mileage you would have travelled to City A from your claim)

I used to be allowed to do this but commuted on a train and could work on my phone on the train answering emails. It wasn't ideal but my boss told me to count it. Some days I counted it, others I didn't depending how much work I felt I'd done.

Even asking for this would leave a very big red flag against your name. Seriously it’s not worth being flagged as ‘that person
that doesn't make sense. Either it is accepted as perfectly reasonable practice and fully endorsed by the company, in which case why would there be a red flag against anyone's name.

Or it isn't accepted as normal practice, in which case OP shouldn't do it.

[quote FictionalCharacter]@Excilente They are not calling her in, OP said “if and when I choose to go in”.[/quote]
but they are - "Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting" from her OP.. so this is about being called into the office for a meeting.

The OP is LITERALLY asking if she should count the hours travelling to that meeting that her employers are requesting she attend, as working hours... or work the time back 'in lieu' so to speak.

Attend all meetings as required?
What job do you do that involved regular meetings yet never between 2:30 and 3:30?

Does your employer not expect you to work those as full days in the office? Getting you in for 1.5 hours seems a bit bonkers. If it was a full day, you'd not be paid, so why would you for part of the day?

@vivainsomnia

Attend all meetings as required? What job do you do that involved regular meetings yet never between 2:30 and 3:30?

I said upthread if a meeting goes in across that time slot I book the DC into childcare.

Most meetings happen before and after this time slot as a large portion of staff and managers at all levels do the school runs.

I agree this is about debate and feeling our way around what works really, no one knows the future for sure, or how this will work exactly.

we have given up rooms in our homes, developed bad backs while waiting for office chairs (often self funded), crouched over crap equipment etc to ensure we keep our jobs and work still happens during the pandemic.

Arguably there is a chance now to do things differently rather than have it all so black and white. But the reason I would take a suck it and see approach is to do with this new way of being, it is a grey area right now.

Sadly it's because of CF attitude and workers taking the piss that we are at risk to see managers banning WFH, or at leat making mandatory a few days in the office. Commute not included

When people are unable to be professional and need a hand hold for everything, it's a mess.

OP a few of us have asked what is the place of work in your contract. Is it your home or the office?

@khakiandcoral

Sadly it's because of CF attitude and workers taking the piss that we are at risk to see managers banning WFH, or at leat making mandatory a few days in the office. Commute not included

When people are unable to be professional and need a hand hold for everything, it's a mess.

I still fail to see how completing all my work every week is CFery but I suppose this is all still new to everyone.

This is so interesting, not least because it shows how hung up people are on input rather than output. I managed teams for years and was notoriously lax about the hours they worked. We agreed objectives, the support they needed to meet them and the standard required, then they went off and got on with it. If they met their objectives I never questioned their hours. It’s called treating people like grown ups and it really works.

Everyone still has a formal "place of work" in their contracts. Whether this will change I do not know. Work are still championing "stay away from the office as much as possible", switching to hot desking, reducing the size of offices across the company etc.

The introduction of a fortnightly face to face is to maintain some social aspect.

Your are required to have a usual place of work - for tax purposes. If that is the office then you should not be claiming commuting time. If however your usual place of work is your back room at home then you can claim "commuting time" and the work from home allowance from hmrc.

I think it is calling it commuting that is causing such strong opinions. If you had said I travel from my usual place of work to a meeting in town then everyone would expect you to claim time and indeed expenses... that fact that you are calling it commuting makes it a different thing.

A huge problem though is that many jobs are or grow beyond a ‘reasonable working week’. It’s sensible when that happens to keep track of hours so that either support training or adjustment can take place. So it’s not always questionable when employees do think about their hours !
I voted op was bu but the problem here is fundamentally inconsistency I think - some required to come in some not. It’s difficult.
Thank god I’m am very largely self employed !

While you are clearly BU, I do get it.

I’ve been dialling into my work’s Monday morning meeting on my phone as I walk in. It starts 30 mins before our official start time. As everyone is dialling in, whether they’re in the office or not, I don’t see that it makes much difference. However I expect crackdown will follow soon.

This is so interesting, not least because it shows how hung up people are on input rather than output
In my experience of managing staff for over 25 years, the two are very closely linked.

If you are called in at odd hours in the middle of the day, like the example you gave, then yes, I would count the commuting time as part of your working hours. If it was a normal work day with the commuting before and after, then I wouldn't count it.

I attend the office for short periods for two reasons- to attend the scheduled fortnightly face to face and on the occasion that being in the office makes a task easier (eg printing reports/scanning docs I cant do from home, using a specific piece of equipment which is superior to the one I have at home etc).

I minimise my time in the office according to my employers request.

@CrimsonImp

Starting to understand why my OHs company is reluctant to go down the flexible approach when this is what people do in response.

I was thinking the same. So much is said about companies needing to trust employees etc and how perhaps the pandemic will change attitudes. Well it won’t if people start to take the piss like this.

yes agree @Blossomtoes. some of the comments on here show imo that people have learned reactions and behaviours in response to a very rigid approach to work.

Even if the hybrid becomes the norm ideally it should work for everyone, employer and employee. Some workers carry a lot on their shoulders (school runs, kids illnesses etc), not all of it monetised. we should be supportive of this blend.

Again, I ask, what is piss taking about completing all of my work each week?

vivainsomnia
Attend all meetings as required?
What job do you do that involved regular meetings yet never between 2:30 and 3:30?

I'm obviously lucky to have a job where the meetings are planned for when we are all available and within our working hours. If someone has an appointment, or in my case a later start time, earlier finish time, the meetings are scheduled to accommodate everyone.

No you can’t count your commute time unless you’re working fully as you travel

What I think you should be focusing on is making sure that any visit to the office is as rare as possible, and as productive as possible. Do you really need to have a fortnightly face to face in the office? Could it be at a location nearer to you, or alternately face to face? Would an earlier time be better for all.