To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

It’s people like you who take the piss that ruin it for everyone else and make organisations mistrust their employees

You are being ridiculous.

OP as you work flexible hours when you are at home I'd just account for the commuting hours on other days.

So if you want to take off 2 hours on your office days for commuting, then just work an extra 30 mins on the days you're at home, I am assuming you don't have to go into the office more than once a week.

DH went in yesterday and left 30 mins early because he works longer days at home, and nobody cares as long as he gets his work done.

But commute time doesn't count as work, it's different if you regularly attend meetings at clients/suppliers/other sites.

Yeah makes total sense to me. Me and my staff have been WFH 100% this year and will be working on a home based except by exception basis like you going forward. You don’t say how long your commute is but say for instance it was half an hour each way for all of us, I most certainly don’t plan to be expecting (or doing) an extra hour’s work elsewhere every time we travel in to compensate. Any manager that expected that from an employee who gets all their work done and shows up to all their meetings is just an incompetent manager.

Before Covid our policy used to be that if you travelled to an office that wasn’t your usual place of work, you could count the journey time minus your normal commute as work time. This is basically the same thing if your commute to your usual place of work is now zero minutes.

If I went into the office I would arrive around 8.50am (after doing the school run) and be able to work til 2pm when I leave to get back to the school in time (unless a pre booked meeting in which case I book DC into childcare after school).

So that's 5 hrs and 10 minutes work. So presumably you make up the 2 hours and 20 minutes in the evening?

Why is it any different just because you go in later?
You simply work from 8.15 until whenever you have to leave. Then you go the meeting, come home and work until school run time. And then still have to work 2hours and 20 minutes in the evening, because the travel time is the same whatever time of day you do it?

I'm afraid this post reads like you just don't want to disturb your nice family based routine that you've got in place since Covid and are seeking to justify why you shouldn't work your full hours. If you don't want to work full hours, then just don't, as someone upthread suggested. But don't try to justify that this is reasonable. (Unless your employer okays it).

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz so where exactly is the cut off for you. What about workers who will choose to commute 3 days a week instead - some may even commute midday?

What does your contract stipulate as your main workplace? Office? Or if not then does it say something along the lines of as reasonably requested by your employer?

I'm afraid if you're an employee, commute to your main workplace or such other place of work as reasonably requested by your employer does not count towards your working hours. This would be the general rule and unless you have anything else specifically in the contract, my understanding would be that this is your position.

Travelling to places other than your normal place of work might be considered to be part of your working hours e.g. going to a meeting in a Client's office but getting from home to your office definitely isn't! Otherwise those who choose to live miles away would never get any work done.

@Nextchapterofmybook

It’s people like you who take the piss that ruin it for everyone else and make organisations mistrust their employees

It appears to be quite common amongst the team tbh.

I suppose it all balances out that I may think I'm counting the 1hr round trip into the office as my working hours, as its smack bang in the middle of my day, but if X Y Z tasks take me an additional 4 hours of work that week (over my contracted ft hours), then realistically Iv more than done my hours.

It's more the times when I dont need to work overtime to the amount that balances any random trips into the office in the middle of the days.

@MiddleParking

Yeah makes total sense to me. Me and my staff have been WFH 100% this year and will be working on a home based except by exception basis like you going forward. You don’t say how long your commute is but say for instance it was half an hour each way for all of us, I most certainly don’t plan to be expecting (or doing) an extra hour’s work elsewhere every time we travel in to compensate. Any manager that expected that from an employee who gets all their work done and shows up to all their meetings is just an incompetent manager.

Before Covid our policy used to be that if you travelled to an office that wasn’t your usual place of work, you could count the journey time minus your normal commute as work time. This is basically the same thing if your commute to your usual place of work is now zero minutes.

Exactly this.

Especially as I regularly work over my hours (no overtime etc), so realistically it probably all balances out over the year.

Why are you asking here rather than your manager? Surely only they can tell you if it's reasonable or not.

Frankly, I'm amazed that you are able to deliver as much and good quality work as you did before when 5 hours of your 37.5 is done whilst caring for your child, there and then, and you count commuting in it all, but if your manager think you are delivering what is expected for your grade and FT position, then that's al that matters.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz now you are drip feeding. You have never stated you work over your contracted hours elsewhere:

[quote cinammonbuns]@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz now you are drip feeding. You have never stated you work over your contracted hours elsewhere:[/quote]
So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done

I stated it here in my opening post.

Your employer needs to decide a policy on this.

If you had to go from your usual place of work to a client or another branch office for a meeting during the day, it would be normal to include the travel time as part of your working day and pay travel expenses.

On the other hand, you could argue that as you have the option to WFH or in the office, they are both your usual place of work so you can't claim time and expenses for meetings at your office. You have the option to spend the entire day working in the office on a day you have a meeting.

You are being ridiculous.
You sound like you don't want to disrupt your new routine and are trying to justify why you shouldn't work your full hours.

But now you are saying it balances out. Maybe you work a few more minutes to finish your task and that doesn’t always compensate for commuting costs.

I think as people have said this is a question for your HR. How will random mumsnetters be Abel to tell you what your business will accept?

Also you haven’t answered my question about where the cut off is….

Are you able to work while you travel? I wouldn't count travel time in itself unless required to travel somewhere not my normal place of work. But prior to lockdown I had a long commute and used it to work. I didn't count e.g. time cycling to the station, or indeed relaxing with a book once I'd done what I needed to, but since trains have wifi it became a really productive part of my working day so it seemed entirely fair to count it as work time.

If I went into the office for full days/full weeks of course I wouldn't include the commuting grin even I can agree that is taking the piss.

if work ask us to come into the office for 1.5hrs each fortnight, to do something that we can all do from home (and therefore not lose time commuting), surely the travel in should count?

Can you not see the contradiction here? Many people have to attend the office full time to do work that they could do from home, but you think they'd be taking the piss.

Your argument only stands as far as it suits you!

@Cillmantain

You are being ridiculous. You sound like you don't want to disrupt your new routine and are trying to justify why you shouldn't work your full hours.

Hardly

I work til the work gets done. Some weeks that's working an additional 5/6 hours on top of FT. Some weeks it's just at or slightly below 37.5.

I'm more in yabu than yanbu camp. I have similar problem looming, enforced WFH for now but big push for hybrid in future, where we will be actively discouraged from going in by the logistics of hotdesking. Work is 75 minutes away for me.

I never counted pure commuting as work time before so I am minded to just keep doing that, but is a weird situation. My contract was always flexi-time & WFH as an option. Sometimes I can't login due to lack of VPN licenses, so I could find WFH impossible with short notice.

All those saying no, if you want to your normal workplace, say office a. And then travelled to office b part way during the day for a meeting, those travel hours would be part of your working day. You wouldn't work longer to pay back for them.

How is this different?

God forbid a mumsnet poster’s working conditions should suit them.

Ok so now this is the case of the OP where most people say they are BU but they will just continue to justify themselves. What exactly was the point of this post then? You clearly are still going to do it so what we say doesn’t matter.

Oh and let's hope they don't decide that WFH is not an option any longer because people have been taking the mickey and everyone has to go back to the office working 8 to 4pm and staff with kids have to find childcare again.

Your argument over a couple of hours every other week will be the less of your problem then.

Can you not see the contradiction here? Many people have to attend the office full time to do work that they could do from home, but you think they'd be taking the piss

Yes but my discussion is coming from a point of (and only relevant) to people who are and have been 100% home based.

My situation is completely different to someone who has to be on site to do their job.