To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

I am all in favour of WFH (been doing that as much as I could long before covid), but going from doing your contractual hours in the office to basically taking most of the day off when you are having a meeting by counting your commute as "work"?

It is taking the piss.

If they are asking you to attend an hours meeting in the middle of the day the travel should be work time

Completely agree.

If you start work at 8:15 and you have to attend a meeting at 11am then that travel is within the working day and is reasonably work time.

Jesus.

This is outlandish.

People like the OP will result in WFH options being removed completely.

I think you are already lucky to have a job that fits around your school run, I assume you used to go into office before Covid and lockdown, so with travel time back before did you do a shorter day in office? Or put children into childcare?
I genuinely don’t know anyone who gets paid to travel to and from work, unless it’s someone who owns there own company who never really switches off.
If you don’t enjoy your work or like your working conditions look for an alternative job where you will get everything tailored to your individual needs, and let your boss find someone who would appreciate your job better. I despair sometimes I really do.

* work 6.5 hours solid per day, totalling 32.5. I then pick up at least the extra 5 if not more in the evenings/late afternoons/odd Sunday morning etc.*

Like heck you do

It’s late afternoon now and you’re throwing yourself in to a mumsnet thread for example.

And you began it at… 2.47pm!

I have found having employees that want people to fill I time sheets and don't trust people really affects morale and people start to resent it and do the minimum required. I love the flexibility of my job and often do unpaid overtime as I enjoy it and appreciate the trust and not being checked up on every five minutes.

Again, I ask, what is piss taking about completing all of my work each week?
Is your work that well defined then? Because in most office jobs I know, there is always something else you can do with extra time. Filing, clearing things up, reviewing policies, doing more training etc...

Or are you talking about completing the minimum that is expected of you and therefore the company is getting a good deal?

@Crunchymum

Jesus.

This is outlandish.

People like the OP will result in WFH options being removed completely.

And no bloody wonder. The company already sounds soft with not counting or asking for accountability for hours worked! We all know where that leads...

@Blossomtoes

This is so interesting, not least because it shows how hung up people are on input rather than output. I managed teams for years and was notoriously lax about the hours they worked. We agreed objectives, the support they needed to meet them and the standard required, then they went off and got on with it. If they met their objectives I never questioned their hours. It’s called treating people like grown ups and it really works.

Quite.

Also do you think NHS health visitors and nurses count the time driving to a patient’s house as work time?
Of course they do.

If you are required to attend a meeting in the middle of the day that is work time.

@vivainsomnia

This is so interesting, not least because it shows how hung up people are on input rather than output In my experience of managing staff for over 25 years, the two are very closely linked.

In mine they aren’t. Some people are workhorses and power through work, others are much slower. If you’re rigid about hours the first group carries the second.

What happens if you live 10 minutes from the office and someone else a couple of hours away. Do you think it is fair they get paid the same but do nearly 4 hours less work than you.

Did you mean to post this in the IANBU topic?

@Sometimesfraught82

* work 6.5 hours solid per day, totalling 32.5. I then pick up at least the extra 5 if not more in the evenings/late afternoons/odd Sunday morning etc.*

Like heck you do

It’s late afternoon now and you’re throwing yourself in to a mumsnet thread for example.

And you began it at… 2.47pm!

gee, almost like she said she logged off work at 2.45pm every day.

If you are being required to get a certain amount of work done, and you are achieving that, then just don't count the hours you work at all, just get the job done.

However if part of the requirement is to average 37.5 hours every week then you can't count travel time to main office in my opinion.

In mine they aren’t. Some people are workhorses and power through work, others are much slower. If you’re rigid about hours the first group carries the second
I totally agree, but it's the attitude that makes the difference and those who are happy to fit work around childcare, do supposedly a few hours there and then, and despite all that flexibility still consider ways to reduce even more their working hours are rarely the most productive employees.

my god, how is the OP 'taking the piss' by asking if she ought to include that commute to a meeting at work once a fortnight into her working hours?

What happens if you live 10 minutes from the office and someone else a couple of hours away. Do you think it is fair they get paid the same but do nearly 4 hours less work than you
That's a very good point.

People like the OP will result in WFH options being removed completely

No it is the fact that things have ground to a virtual halt. Selling my house and we are waiting on 1 document being processed. Normally it would take 3 working days.
Now we are looking at nearly 5 weeks

* gee, almost like she said she logged off work at 2.45pm every day. hmm*

She posted at 2.47

Must have literally stopped working bang on 2.45 to the absolute minute and then pulled up mumsnet to start thrashing out a thread.

It says it all really!

my god, how is the OP 'taking the piss' by asking if she ought to include that commute to a meeting at work once a fortnight into her working hours?
Because this is in addition to the benefits of working from home, being able to start when she wants, to go and pick up the kids in the middle of her working hours, and supposedly making up the time whenever it suits her. Yet somehow, OP thinks that's not enough giving and should add being paid for commuting. What's next?

@SoupDragon

Did you mean to post this in the IANBU topic?

I disagree that travelling time which is outside the norm is never "work" time. When I was an academic I regularly had to travel to Europe and several times to the USA.

For European flights I automatically took the following day off and a half day up front for "packing and preparation". For intercontinental flights I took longer - usually 2 full days. It was custom and practice.

YABVU and a CF.

Flipping heck

Check out posting history over last year.

Is your employer also cool with mumsnet usage during your set hours?!

@Staffy1

I have found having employees that want people to fill I time sheets and don't trust people really affects morale and people start to resent it and do the minimum required. I love the flexibility of my job and often do unpaid overtime as I enjoy it and appreciate the trust and not being checked up on every five minutes.

I do love that too, wouldn't stay anywhere else, and expects to be treated like a professional adult.

I do act like one though, that's the difference.
Some people do take the piss, it's not new.

And some jobs NEED a set of precise hours, or need timesheets to invoice the clients.