Any Carers here who are not taking the vaccine?

[Maybevaccine]

It's apparently been confirmed now that it is compulsory for care home workers and other carers to take the vaccine.

I just got a job in a care home, and I've always said no to the vaccine. Mainly because of the things I've seen and read of people who've had the vaccine. Blood clots, death, rashes, and people still getting covid after taking the vaccine.

I don't know what to do now.

people who have literally risked their lives to care for people through this

I don't understand. Some carers don't want a vaccine because the vaccine is a higher risk than covid, it seems, but they risked their lives before?
Can you elaborate on that?

I'd think that if carers risked their lives to care for others, they'd be all jumping at the chance to have a vaccine to protect them. And those they care for.

• I don't understand. Some carers don't want a vaccine because the vaccine is a higher risk than covid, it seems, but they risked their lives before? Can you elaborate on that?*

At the start of the pandemic, there was no vaccine. PPE was a nightmare to procure. The virus trajectory was not fully understood. We were all blind to the full spectrum of risks and we still went into work. Some carers died. The news was full of horror stories, scary statistics and false assurances of protective rings, plentiful PPE and testing.

Yes, they did risk their lives. They were incredibly brave. Please don't attempt to devalue what they did.

Regards the vaccine-I don't know why some would choose not to have it. As I have said several times now I am pro vaccine, I had mine and would ENCOURAGE everyone to do the same. I am not sure it should be enforced, lets see how the legal and ethical arguments play out.

I do not think it is fair to label someone (having gone through all the above) as uneducated and selfish. They do have a right to choose. We had all better hope that this enforcement means these carers have the vaccine-because if they choose to walk away instead, an already chronically short staffed work force is about to be pushed to breaking point.

My daughter is a carer in a home and had hers Dec/Jan - it was strongly indicated that if she did not then no job. She has spent the last year worrying about taking cv in plus done lots of extra shifts plus, as some hours are called ‘sleep in’ gets under minimum wage for these hours. She enjoys her job and really cares about the residents, but it’s hugely stressful for a few claps once a week and I wouldn’t say it’s a choice the same as joining the army, being a nurse and when her son is older she was always going to look elsewhere.
She was quite upset and worried to have the vaccine back then, but felt she had little choice.
Of course we all want elderly protecting but spinning the tale carers don’t care if they don’t want the vaccine, and particularly the ‘choice’ to work in care is rather disingenuous and I am not comfortable with equating the role alongside other vocational type roles. This whole language around care/public service (including drs, teachers etc) is known to pressure people and assist in keeping wages down as the employees feel the ‘goodness’ of the role outweighs normal practical rewards.
We should slow down on the ott insistence carers don’t care if they don’t want the jab, it’s incredibly disrespectful to their work over the last year plus.
I believe in vaccines for society, and I understand the need to protect the vulnerable, but I am not convinced on state ordered jabs especially for folk on some of the lowest paid, hard work roles. If this part is accepted then I do think it’s wrong to focus just on carers in care homes for mandatory jabs - there’s similar workers elsewhere.

If you choose not to have the vaccine (without medical reason not to) and work in an area which has been so high risk then yes I am sorry I believe you are selfish. Your not only putting yourself and risk but you are increasing the risk to your colleagues and the people you are supposed to care for.

@MsJinks

My daughter is a carer in a home and had hers Dec/Jan - it was strongly indicated that if she did not then no job. She has spent the last year worrying about taking cv in plus done lots of extra shifts plus, as some hours are called ‘sleep in’ gets under minimum wage for these hours. She enjoys her job and really cares about the residents, but it’s hugely stressful for a few claps once a week and I wouldn’t say it’s a choice the same as joining the army, being a nurse and when her son is older she was always going to look elsewhere. She was quite upset and worried to have the vaccine back then, but felt she had little choice. Of course we all want elderly protecting but spinning the tale carers don’t care if they don’t want the vaccine, and particularly the ‘choice’ to work in care is rather disingenuous and I am not comfortable with equating the role alongside other vocational type roles. This whole language around care/public service (including drs, teachers etc) is known to pressure people and assist in keeping wages down as the employees feel the ‘goodness’ of the role outweighs normal practical rewards. We should slow down on the ott insistence carers don’t care if they don’t want the jab, it’s incredibly disrespectful to their work over the last year plus. I believe in vaccines for society, and I understand the need to protect the vulnerable, but I am not convinced on state ordered jabs especially for folk on some of the lowest paid, hard work roles. If this part is accepted then I do think it’s wrong to focus just on carers in care homes for mandatory jabs - there’s similar workers elsewhere.

Good post and interesting. Made me see the other side a bit.

@DeathStare

I've always said no to the vaccine. Mainly because of the things I've seen and read of people who've had the vaccine. Blood clots, death, rashes, and people still getting covid after taking the vaccine

My goal is it get into medicine in 2023

well I thought wearing the PPE and getting tested every week was enough

You don't have the scientific understanding, critical thinking skills, or ability to evaluate evidence that are needed for medicine.

I totally agree with Deathstare. If you ever manage, God forbid, to ‘get into medicine’, please let it be nowhere near me or my family.

@Maybevaccine
There are many people who feel like you. They're forming groups. Join them, there is strength in numbers.

I'm a carer for my father, so not a care home. I'm not having it because the negatives outweighs the need. I'm healthy, young and rarely get sick. It's an experimental vaccine so would rather not. My father had his jabs so he feels protected, there is no concern from him about my choice.

@Scrambledcustard

The vaccine doest stop you from passing it on though.

OP your probably going to have to get a new job if you dont want it. Making vaccines mandatory is against civil rights and should not be forced

I disagree entirely with you. When I wanted to work with disabled people I had to have the Hepatitis B vaccination. Surgeons have vaccines and mandatory tests (HIV etc.) to prevent them passing on diseases to patients. I presume you think that also is against their civil rights. What about the civil rights of clients and patients not to be put in danger ?

I’m a doctor. We already have compulsory vaccines like hep B. You will have to prove your vaccinated throughout your career if you go onto do medicine.

The contraceptive pill has a not insignificant risk of blood clots. Everything has a risk.

Do visitors to care homes have to show proof of vaccination aswell then?

@Bluesheep8

Do visitors to care homes have to show proof of vaccination aswell then?

Do you understand the difference between staff who are there for 24 hours a day every day and visitors??

@MsJinks

My daughter is a carer in a home and had hers Dec/Jan - it was strongly indicated that if she did not then no job. She has spent the last year worrying about taking cv in plus done lots of extra shifts plus, as some hours are called ‘sleep in’ gets under minimum wage for these hours. She enjoys her job and really cares about the residents, but it’s hugely stressful for a few claps once a week and I wouldn’t say it’s a choice the same as joining the army, being a nurse and when her son is older she was always going to look elsewhere. She was quite upset and worried to have the vaccine back then, but felt she had little choice. Of course we all want elderly protecting but spinning the tale carers don’t care if they don’t want the vaccine, and particularly the ‘choice’ to work in care is rather disingenuous and I am not comfortable with equating the role alongside other vocational type roles. This whole language around care/public service (including drs, teachers etc) is known to pressure people and assist in keeping wages down as the employees feel the ‘goodness’ of the role outweighs normal practical rewards. We should slow down on the ott insistence carers don’t care if they don’t want the jab, it’s incredibly disrespectful to their work over the last year plus. I believe in vaccines for society, and I understand the need to protect the vulnerable, but I am not convinced on state ordered jabs especially for folk on some of the lowest paid, hard work roles. If this part is accepted then I do think it’s wrong to focus just on carers in care homes for mandatory jabs - there’s similar workers elsewhere.

Thanks for this post- it’s really made me think, and I do agree with all the points.

I’m against mandatory vaccines, and the “blame culture” / selfish covidiots narrative.

I do think that given that care homes house the most frail and vulnerable members of our society, and the low uptake amongst workers something does need to be done though. I think on balance in this instance, making vaccines mandatory for care workers is probably proportionate, especially since vaccines are the absolute best protection we have against this disease (PPE , masks, social distancing , testing etc pale in comparison). I do see that it’s not black and white though and there are different factors to consider.

Some of the comments on here are appalling.

You have a right to decide, OP, it's your body and you have autonomy over it. If you decide not to have the vaccine, take your employer to court. It's only when people start standing up to this nonsense that we'll end this absolute fucking tyranny.

@AllesAusLiebe

Some of the comments on here are appalling.

You have a right to decide, OP, it's your body and you have autonomy over it. If you decide not to have the vaccine, take your employer to court. It's only when people start standing up to this nonsense that we'll end this absolute fucking tyranny.

How would that work when it's not employers making the rules?

If you don't like something, then you find another job. It's that simple.

@AllesAusLiebe

Some of the comments on here are appalling.

You have a right to decide, OP, it's your body and you have autonomy over it. If you decide not to have the vaccine, take your employer to court. It's only when people start standing up to this nonsense that we'll end this absolute fucking tyranny.

Yes, and the rest of us should have the right to prevent idiotic non-vaxxers being anywhere near us and certainly not treating us medically.

*Bluesheep8

Do visitors to care homes have to show proof of vaccination aswell then?

Do you understand the difference between staff who are there for 24 hours a day every day andvisitors??*

Yes I do. And I understand that visitors will want to have close contact with the person they're visiting.

Anyone noticed "I'm not an antivaxxer, but" has become the new "I'm not racist, but"... Preamble to an inevitable burst of poorly thought out and irrational wibbling, always under the banner of "human rights"....

Your "human rights" don't automatically trump those of the most vulnerable people in society. By all means refuse the vaccine if you have weighed up what you think the risks are to you. But don't then expect an entitlement to a job which puts other very vulnerable people at risk of death.

This is nothing to do with sneering at careworkers or snobbishness, as some people are speciously implying. It's a very simple risk calculation. If you are not prepared to take basic steps to protect these people you can't expect to be allowed to continue to look after them.

@Bluesheep8

*Bluesheep8

Do visitors to care homes have to show proof of vaccination aswell then?

Do you understand the difference between staff who are there for 24 hours a day every day andvisitors??*

Yes I do. And I understand that visitors will want to have close contact with the person they're visiting.

Yes but they are much less likely to contribute to the general spread/ infecting multiple patients, leading to the horrific numbers of deaths in care homes we have seen.

Agree with your post @Bizawit. This is making me glad that I have the resources to care for my mother at home and/or to choose care which will be vaccinated.

@Roonerspismed

Hear hear Lex and I’m disgusted by the lack of support by MNetters- who seem to have clapped and virtue signalled their way through last year

Our local care home had covid and the staff were utterly amazing.

I don’t believe the covid vaccines are entirely as safe as being proclaimed and for the young they present a far higher risk than covid which is never discussed. This is state sanctioned inference and it’s disgusting.

i didn't clap.. i'm a parent/carer, disabled child, in receipt of higher rate care DLA.. i have an elderly parent living with me that i also care for, i'm asthmatic.

No fucker was clapping for me every time i set foot out the door to provide and care for my family in the last 18 months. No fucker applauded me or thanked me for the risk i put myself through, and the calculated risk i made each time of getting them sick.

The moment they called me in group 6 to get my vaccine i got it.. not just for me, but for them, to keep them safe.

I cannot for the life of me fathom how ANYONE who 'cares' can not care enough to want to protect the vulnerable people they are supposed to be looking after.

IF you care that little, get another bloody job.

If you don't like something, then you find another job. It's that simple.

That's incredibly callous. Do you seriously think that most people who work in care homes, with long hours and on shift patterns do so because they want to?

Say you are dismissed from your job on account of choosing not to have the vaccine. How do you explain your dismissal to another prospective employer? These are some of the most financially vulnerable workers in society and they're being picked off and made an example of. It's sickening.

I suppose you're going to say that the government is protecting the elderly and responding to a public health emergency. The same government that left the elderly to die in full knowledge of the risk they faced.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, either. I've exercised my right not to have it, but fully support the decision of those that feel it is the best decision for them.

Yes, and the rest of us should have the right to prevent idiotic non-vaxxers being anywhere near us

Apartheid? Don't think it quite caught on last time around. . .

Apartheid my arse. Over a vaccine refusal. How insulting to black people in South Africa.

@thepeopleversuswork

Anyone noticed "I'm not an antivaxxer, but" has become the new "I'm not racist, but"... Preamble to an inevitable burst of poorly thought out and irrational wibbling, always under the banner of "human rights"....

Your "human rights" don't automatically trump those of the most vulnerable people in society. By all means refuse the vaccine if you have weighed up what you think the risks are to you. But don't then expect an entitlement to a job which puts other very vulnerable people at risk of death.

This is nothing to do with sneering at careworkers or snobbishness, as some people are speciously implying. It's a very simple risk calculation. If you are not prepared to take basic steps to protect these people you can't expect to be allowed to continue to look after them.

THIS! Just don’t have the headspace to educate the hard of thinking who are not concerned about their own health and wellbeing let alone to be in charge of those most vulnerable in society in a Petri dish that is already the so called “care” home fighting other viruses let alone Indian Delta and other evolving more contagious and deadly variants. We know with hindsight what happened with care homes so ask yourself the question what is the human rights expectation of your clientele patients. If you are the elderly patient what would make you feel more Covid secure and cared for? In addition where there are ill designed confused variation of health and safety rules standards such as vaccination or Covid test status for visitors between the same person as a family member one day and on-site tradesmen the next - then of course the higher of any difference in safety risk mitigation protocols should be always applied. It only takes one asymptomatic super spreader inaccurately falsely negative tested to seed, incubate and super spread Covid in a vulnerable multiple patients care home as we already seen too often at the start of this pandemic. Do you want to be a potential part of the solution or just another part of the problem and keeping us all further away from full reopening of society?