Any Carers here who are not taking the vaccine?

[Maybevaccine]

It's apparently been confirmed now that it is compulsory for care home workers and other carers to take the vaccine.

I just got a job in a care home, and I've always said no to the vaccine. Mainly because of the things I've seen and read of people who've had the vaccine. Blood clots, death, rashes, and people still getting covid after taking the vaccine.

I don't know what to do now.

You want to work

Apologies post saved instead of putting in another line

You want to work in a care home, get the vaccine

You will be working with the most vulnerable group - there were group 1 in betting vaccines but nor all can have it due to medical conditions

If you don't want to have it, then work somewhere else. I have sympathy for experiences long working carers who medically can't have it, and hopefully they'd be covered but I have no empathy with a new person to the caring profession who lacks care and is arguing points
Don't want the vaccine for a highly transmittable disease that could kill off most of your residents , then pls don't apply to work in a care home

I am a qualified nurse and I left the profession 2 months ago. At the start of the pandemic, I was the manager of a small independent nursing home. I was a good manager and a good nurse. We were thrown to the wolves and some of us are still haunted by it.

I am pro vaccine. I have had both AZ doses. After the first, I felt like I had the flu but it did only last 24 hours. After the second, I was OK. If you're eligible for the vaccine-and most adults are now-my opinion is the benefits outweigh the risks. When I read nursing, I ended up having 7 Hep B shots (standard is 3 or 4) because they couldn't get my antibodies up. This is probably because I had a course of Hep B vaccinations when I was 17 and working in a hospital, but there were no records of it. I also had to have the MMR, despite having had mumps, measles and Rubella as a child.

Although I strongly support vaccines-I think some posts on here about carers being uneducated or selfish for not wanting the Covid vaccine are really quite cruel. The majority of these people have been to hell and back in the past 18 months. I had carers refused access to groceries in shops as "they were not key workers" at the start of the pandemic. I had to order them basics like bread and milk when the shelves were being ransacked.

When the first guidance came out in Jan 20 about coronavirus, the advice for PPE was FFP3, gowns and negative pressure rooms. You couldn't action this in a care home. We couldn't get basic PPE at one stage-it was all being redirected to the NHS. I resorted to getting up at 2am to buy masks online from wherever I could to protect the residents and staff as best I could, paying up to £1.50 per mask. The staff were terrified. You couldn't get tests. You had to accept hospital discharges. Hours long waits for ambulances, no in person GP visits. I could go on. It was bloody hard and I don't think the experience will ever leave me.

Carers have already had to massively change how they work and what is part of the job. COVID swabbing twice weekly is fairly invasive and results going to your employer first rather than your doctor. Stifling PPE and a whole ream of new procedures to get used to. For some of them, enforcing the vaccine will be the final straw.

I agree with the vaccine and I do think all health and social care staff should have it. Should it be enforced? I am not sure it should.

Some of the posts here are so disrespectful and dismissive to people who have literally risked their lives to care for people through this. Some of the posts here seem to suggest that they should be grateful to be paid the bare minimum and should just suck up whatever is now demanded of them. The last thing social care needs right now is a bulk walk out of experienced carers and no, not everyone can do the job well. It is not as simple as filling vacancies from the unemployed pool. Not every person can and not every person will.

Hear hear Lex and I’m disgusted by the lack of support by MNetters- who seem to have clapped and virtue signalled their way through last year

Our local care home had covid and the staff were utterly amazing.

I don’t believe the covid vaccines are entirely as safe as being proclaimed and for the young they present a far higher risk than covid which is never discussed. This is state sanctioned inference and it’s disgusting.

It's a bit crazy - elderly people who stay in their own homes or are cared for by relatives don't get this protection. I don't see why Care Homes are different. I suspect it is because of the outcry if someone in a care home dies unexpectedly - threats of closure, inspections, demands for improvements or sackings.
Care Homes should be treated like real life - some elderly have falls or catch flu - wrapping in cotton wool doesn't enhance their lives imv (the ban on visits by family for example).

Your goal is to work in medicine but you are anti vax. Um ok

The pill can cause blood clots so can flying.
I hope you won't be taking or doing either of those ever again.

You're caring for other peoples loved ones. Stop being selfish and get the vaccine.

@Lex345, as much as I fully understand what you’re saying I really can’t agree that because carers had a hard time during the pandemic this means they shouldn’t have to be vaccinated. The two things are not related.

Everyone should be treated with respect. But the bottom line is those in care homes are some of the most vulnerable to Covid in society and. I vaccine is 100 percent effective, as such, everything to protect these people needs to be done, and that includes ensuring only vaccinated people care intimately for them.

@Bluntness100 I don't necessarily disagree -I am pro vaccine and as I said, I do think all eligible adults should have it. I think my reaction was very much in response to some of the posts here which are cruel. The vaccine isn't 100% effective sadly, but I agree any protection at all for care home residents is a positive and I was happy to have mine for this reason. I am just not sure I agree with it being enforced and am not sure this policy satisifies the test for voluntary consent. I am sure we will see more on this issue in the coming weeks. It is an interesting ethical question.

I agree some of the posts are cruel but there is a strength of feeling about this. So many of our elderly died.

No one is forced to habe the vaccine, simply as vaccines are not one hundred percent effective then if you wish to work in care you need to be vaccinated to protect those in your care. If you do not wish to then you need to seek employment in another field.

The cases are shooting uo again, and unvaccinated cares are in care homes, where no resident is one hundred percent protected and it puts their life at additional risk, there’s no way round that fact.

There is no such thing as a mandatory vaccine, choice exists, no matter how hard that choice is, and if you do not wish th vaccine then you must accept the ramifications of your personal choice and accept working in care is not an option for you due to thr risk to the life of the residents.

@Unsure33

I believe mandating vaccines is more to do with playing politics than protecting the vulnerable.

I do not need to leave my profession, thanks very much. I will resign from my position within social care if this comes in.

I'm sorry to hear about your colleague. I really hope that he pulls through.

I am quite happy to not travel abroad until such a time as I am satisfied that the vaccine is safe for me to accept, a vaccine passport will not at this time entice me to be vaccinated.

@Bluntness100 yes, I completely understand the strength of feeling, it has been an awful 18 months for people in care and their families. Of course you would want people to do everything they can to protect your loved ones. I will be watching with interest how the legal and ethical arguments to this play out. The moral argument I feel is conclusive, most working in care will have had the vaccine on this basis.

You will need to get the vaccine, yes.
I suspect you'll be happy to if you knew what it was like to wear full PPE.
Plus, people can't be relied on to wear PPE properly and at all times, and weekly testing misses all those days in between.
I'm surprised you want to do Medicine and haven't realised yet that by the time someone tests positive they could have infected many people.

Vaccines are the best prevention.

And, btw, Google is not research.

I am quite happy to not travel abroad until such a time as I am satisfied that the vaccine is safe for me to accept

So, never?
No vaccine is 100% safe. Where does that leave you?

I do understand why caters don’t want to be forced to take the vaccine. However it is important I would not like my parents to be cared for by someone unvaccinated. If it’s reframed in your mind that if you were to apply for this job again and the condition was being vaccinated would you take the job or not ?

My elderly parents have refused the vaccine. They say it's fine, they have their food delivered via Ocado

@Lex345

I am a qualified nurse and I left the profession 2 months ago. At the start of the pandemic, I was the manager of a small independent nursing home. I was a good manager and a good nurse. We were thrown to the wolves and some of us are still haunted by it.

I am pro vaccine. I have had both AZ doses. After the first, I felt like I had the flu but it did only last 24 hours. After the second, I was OK. If you're eligible for the vaccine-and most adults are now-my opinion is the benefits outweigh the risks. When I read nursing, I ended up having 7 Hep B shots (standard is 3 or 4) because they couldn't get my antibodies up. This is probably because I had a course of Hep B vaccinations when I was 17 and working in a hospital, but there were no records of it. I also had to have the MMR, despite having had mumps, measles and Rubella as a child.

Although I strongly support vaccines-I think some posts on here about carers being uneducated or selfish for not wanting the Covid vaccine are really quite cruel. The majority of these people have been to hell and back in the past 18 months. I had carers refused access to groceries in shops as "they were not key workers" at the start of the pandemic. I had to order them basics like bread and milk when the shelves were being ransacked.

When the first guidance came out in Jan 20 about coronavirus, the advice for PPE was FFP3, gowns and negative pressure rooms. You couldn't action this in a care home. We couldn't get basic PPE at one stage-it was all being redirected to the NHS. I resorted to getting up at 2am to buy masks online from wherever I could to protect the residents and staff as best I could, paying up to £1.50 per mask. The staff were terrified. You couldn't get tests. You had to accept hospital discharges. Hours long waits for ambulances, no in person GP visits. I could go on. It was bloody hard and I don't think the experience will ever leave me.

Carers have already had to massively change how they work and what is part of the job. COVID swabbing twice weekly is fairly invasive and results going to your employer first rather than your doctor. Stifling PPE and a whole ream of new procedures to get used to. For some of them, enforcing the vaccine will be the final straw.

I agree with the vaccine and I do think all health and social care staff should have it. Should it be enforced? I am not sure it should.

Some of the posts here are so disrespectful and dismissive to people who have literally risked their lives to care for people through this. Some of the posts here seem to suggest that they should be grateful to be paid the bare minimum and should just suck up whatever is now demanded of them. The last thing social care needs right now is a bulk walk out of experienced carers and no, not everyone can do the job well. It is not as simple as filling vacancies from the unemployed pool. Not every person can and not every person will.

But surely seeing first hand how bad it was should encourage them to get the vaccine so it doesn’t happen again?

I've always said no to the vaccine. Mainly because of the things I've seen and read of people who've had the vaccine. Blood clots, death, rashes, and people still getting covid after taking the vaccine

My goal is it get into medicine in 2023

well I thought wearing the PPE and getting tested every week was enough

You don't have the scientific understanding, critical thinking skills, or ability to evaluate evidence that are needed for medicine.

It occurs to me that in my 15 years as a NHS frontline HCP I've never been asked to prove my vaccination status; and contrary to what I'm reading here, no one 'tests' us 'every 10 years' for Hep B!

Personally, I think the government should have put some of the cash it spaffed to mates for useless PPE into persuasive campaigns to encourage vaccine take up, and to counter false news, instead of making the vaccine compulsory.

Apart from potentially making the gaping hole in NMH/zero hours care work ever bigger, there is a huge issue in the compulsion aspect in all this.

I'm fully vaxxed but I do think people should have the right to say no.

An aside- will the care homes demand full vax compliance from their customers?

So the elderly that have refused the vaccine are they going to be asked to leave the care home?

Are care homes going to be having no unvaccinated visitors?

@ConstanceGracy certainly-I think I was clear I am pro vaccine. I have had mine and would do so again. I absolutely think everyone who can should have the vaccine. Encourage, yes.
Enforce? I am not sure-as I said, I am interested to see how the legal and ethical arguments play out.

What I strongly disagree with is attacking people who will be at a low ebb having had an awful time. I do not agree in any way with devaluing carers as uneducated or selfish.

@zednotzee so the only way anybody is paying to be nursed by me is through their previously accrued taxes

That's not the way taxation works - the taxes you pay don't sit in an individual account until you need them. The people paying for the health service/social care now are the people paying taxes now. That's why there is a crisis in social care funding - because there is now a reduced proportion of tax-payers to those needing care.

lex345 "......Some of the posts here are so disrespectful and dismissive to people who have literally risked their lives to care for people through this. Some of the posts here seem to suggest that they should be grateful to be paid the bare minimum and should just suck up whatever is now demanded of them. The last thing social care needs right now is a bulk walk out of experienced carers and no, not everyone can do the job well. It is not as simple as filling vacancies from the unemployed pool. Not every person can and not every person will."

I agree.

@mrsnoodle55 Those stats don't add up.

Out of the 26 people admitted, 0.4% had co-morbidities

0.4% of 26 is 0.104. It is impossible for 0.104 people to have co-morbidities. This has to be a whole number.

[quote ZednotZee]@jellybeansforbreakfast

I don't have any specific health concerns and I want it to stay that way, hence my refusal to take this new vaccine.
My body needs to last me my whole life, I have five children to provide for and I need to remain well enough to be economically active for as long as possible.

My DM has a myriad of autoimmune disorders and hasn't been able to work for the last fifteen years due to these.
My cousin, who is thirty nine on my paternal side has scleroderma, another IM condition and is awaiting a lung transplant.

I have nursed through outbreaks of covid with PPE which the RCN have admitted are woefully inadequate and I have never tested positive for covid, despite 90% of my colleagues testing positive. The virus is not indiscriminate by any means and I do not feel myself to be at personal risk of contracting it or subsequently transmitting it.

My blood group is O -ve which, according to preliminary findings confers protection. I also follow a ketogenic diet, which again is thought to be a protective factor.

I am exercising my right to make a risk assessment of my own individual circumstances and this leads me to refuse to take the vaccine at this point.

I have a first class honours degree and over a decade of experience in this sector. I will be a great loss to my workplace but my health and bodily autonomy are paramount.

Fuck you Hancock.[/quote]
Interesting that you are so concerned about staying healthy for your children yet you went through pregnancy five times - that’s four times you willingly put your health at significant risk when you had a child or children to think about. (OK maybe you have twins but it was still more than once).