In thinking being a SAHM is work?

[morepizza]

Work is defined as:

noun
noun: work; plural noun: works; plural noun: the works
1 1. 
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

I think this includes SAH parental duties. I know a lot of people don't agree with me. What else would it be called?

Yep, we definitely brought up our dd despite both working full time. When she was little, we employed a nanny for 20 hours a week and then covered the rest of the time between us by working opposite shifts. DD probably napped for about half of that time with the nanny in any case. Nanny was wonderful but definitely wasn't bringing dd up! Did that for around 3 years and then dd started school and we didn't need to use paid childcare after that anyway. I don't think the school was bringing her up either!

Sadly I am the main breadwinner and we would need to make some pretty unpalatable changes for me to stay at home (sell house etc)
I'd love to stay at home with my daughter. I have a very full on career but i still find it is easier than child care- for example, at work I get to drink hot coffee and go to the toilet alone. Despite this o find spending time with my daughter fulfilling. In a way work could never be.

I still daydream about selling up and spending more time with her - maybe I will do it.

I never doubt that it is hard work being a stay at home parent .

@tigertreats

Sadly I am the main breadwinner and we would need to make some pretty unpalatable changes for me to stay at home (sell house etc) I'd love to stay at home with my daughter. I have a very full on career but i still find it is easier than child care- for example, at work I get to drink hot coffee and go to the toilet alone. Despite this o find spending time with my daughter fulfilling. In a way work could never be.

I still daydream about selling up and spending more time with her - maybe I will do it.

I never doubt that it is hard work being a stay at home parent .

I presume if it's hard for you to drink a hot tea/ coffee around her she must still be very young. We all know that the younger years are very demanding. A more rounded view on this topic is not just about being on mat leave/ parenting toddlers.

And many parents are the only "breadwinner" and do everything in the house/ what people call "life admin" alone.

I am on my own and nursery costs are £4k per month.

That is an eye-watering amount. I don't even earn half that. What do parents on NMW do about childcare if they don't have family help?

But Escapeas working parents need to pay someone to do part a large part of that work of bringing up children

This is deliberately insulting bollocks. They pay someone for childcare. Not to bring up children.

By this logic, what are SAHPs doing when some one else is ‘bringing up their children’ when they’re in nursery or school?

The parents I feel have it the hardest are people doing it alone. That is really tough.

I think some parents working in their careers are just plain jealous of SAHM. Only some, others can appreciate it brings its own difficulties.

The difference between parenting young kids and teenagers is that you have a lot more control with young kids, and yes, nurseries/ childminders can do it fine.

Some teenagers are really straightforward, others are more vulnerable- eg because of special needs (and it can be subtle). They’re at risk from others as they become independent- social media influence/ ‘friends’ introducing them to drugs etc/ the emergence of conditions such as Eating Disorders. Mental Healtg problems with teenagers is an increasingly worrying issue.

It’s not always easy to parent at the later stages, and if you think it is - you’re either not there yet / or you’ve been very lucky.

@MyMabel It's hard work. I've been a sahm to twins because we couldn't afford childcare and it's been so hard. And on top of everything, you are alone. All my friends were in work - I made some new friends in parent and toddler but groups are only an hour long. You have another 11 hours to fill with them.

Saying that I am glad I got to be with them everyday and we did have some good times in groups.

I now work part time and I look forward to the days when they're in nursery. I can re-charge.

I've recently secured full time work too. I'm nervous but I'm also looking forward. Dh will be home with them one day a week for a year until they start school.

Escapeas - there are cases though, where (perhaps bar the school applications) a nanny is responsible for all the things you list.

My neighbours (a couple who both worked and she returned to work when her first baby was 5 months), both used to travel a lot and often they’d both be abroad. They used to say thinks like - “it’s so odd how his hair never grows,” when referring to the baby. Yes that’s because you nanny gets it cut! They wouldn’t have known the faces or names of any of the friends or mums that came into their house on a regular basis. Nor would they know where the child went on play dates as they never took him. Never made it to sports day or assemblies or things like that. The nanny did all the school liaison. She was with them for 12 years. When she left it was a massive shock because they couldn’t find anyone else like her.

I know another family where the children actually live in the basement flat with the nanny and the patents live in the four floors above. They see the kids for maybe a couple of hours in the evening. The nanny is the one who comes to parents evening and literally does everything. Everyone assumed she was the mum for years.

I think childminders and nannies have a massive responsibility, even in less extreme circumstances than I’ve described above. They are often paid a pittance for the amount of responsibility they have. Imagine, a child only has to veer into a road in a scooter, or put something in their mouth. It takes a split second as we all know. This is what’s hard with young children day in day out.,

@morepizza so who belittled your choice to be a SAHM? Have you got any future plans for employment? It's nice to be able to afford not to work after the dc are older.

The MN truism is that you would be putting yourself at risk of overreliance on your DH if he does ever leave. Or die! The other risk always pointed out about taking a long career break is that supposedly careers dont recover and your earnings and pension takes a hit making you personally less well off which is unequal with DH, ergo another disparity in divorced circumstances.

I think you will have to develop a thicker skin. Best just enjoy your life and not try and justify your choices to anyone.

It's still worth making your choices with your eyes open.

I'm starting to see these sort of threads are pointless. It's fairly obvious from recent posts from various people that posters just project their own circumstances on the thread with no objectivity. I am willing to include myself in that. However, in some cases there is limited empathy for different people's circumstances.

Someone upthread said sahms start these threads and that demonstrates some sort of insecurity in their decisions. Perhaps there is some truth to that. I think that fact that so many wohm comment on these threads also demonstrates some insecurity too. What does that tell us...it tells us that society judges us no matter what we do. There seems to be some internalisation of these judgements (on both sides) that leads to some on both sides judging each other. It's all very sad really.

Ultimately there is no right and wrong, just what works for you.

It's clearly not work in the sense of paid employment, but whether it can be classed as work at all will depend on your definition of work and/or ages of children/amount of domestic tasks. Far too many variables and individual judgements to make for that. So this argument is pretty pointless.

But Escapeas working parents need to pay someone to do part a large part of that work of bringing up children

My childminder does an amazing job but she’s not bringing up my child any more than I’m bringing up the children in my class at work.

[quote ZenNudist]@morepizza so who belittled your choice to be a SAHM? Have you got any future plans for employment? It's nice to be able to afford not to work after the dc are older.

The MN truism is that you would be putting yourself at risk of overreliance on your DH if he does ever leave. Or die! The other risk always pointed out about taking a long career break is that supposedly careers dont recover and your earnings and pension takes a hit making you personally less well off which is unequal with DH, ergo another disparity in divorced circumstances.

I think you will have to develop a thicker skin. Best just enjoy your life and not try and justify your choices to anyone.

It's still worth making your choices with your eyes open.[/quote]
My career wasn't that great anyway, I was a senior EA for a massive property company in Mayfair. Loved it, but paid around £50k which my husband made in a pay rise the same year I quit.

We have all our properties in joint names. We have life insurance to cover the mortgages in the event of the unthinkable.

We have our wills sorted.

All our money goes into a joint account and I have passwords etc for the investment accounts.

I would like to maybe do some part time work when our child goes back to school.

I do feel judged by a lot of women for failing to be the perfect t feminist etc.

I can't please everyone!

@Rosesareyellow

But Escapeas working parents need to pay someone to do part a large part of that work of bringing up children

My childminder does an amazing job but she’s not bringing up my child any more than I’m bringing up the children in my class at work.

As a teacher you kind of are bringing them up though. Children are brought up by the adults that surround them.

“Rosesareyellow

But Escapeas working parents need to pay someone to do part a large part of that work of bringing up children

My childminder does an amazing job but she’s not bringing up my child any more than I’m bringing up the children in my class at work.”

Ok.

They are often paid a pittance for the amount of responsibility they have. Imagine, a child only has to veer into a road in a scooter, or put something in their mouth. It takes a split second as we all know. This is what’s hard with young children day in day out...

Oh yes the ‘life and death’ spiel again. I think if you’re a childminder and find it is actually ‘hard work’ to not let your mindees swallow things or walk into the road you should find another profession.

It can take a split second Rosesareyellow, as any parent knows.

Children are like sponges. No, a childminder may only be in a limited, paid role from the adults point of view, but if they are spending say, 8-5 with a young child every day, that’s most if the child’s waking, active hours and so it will obviously be a massive influence.

I think you need to work out what’s best for you family and make it work.

It’s not a one size fits all solution - there are pros & cons to each one.

But why are we going against each other as mums? Surely we are all just trying to make the best of the situation we have ended up in?

@Lulalu

It can take a split second Rosesareyellow, as any parent knows.

Children are like sponges. No, a childminder may only be in a limited, paid role from the adults point of view, but if they are spending say, 8-5 with a young child every day, that’s most if the child’s waking, active hours and so it will obviously be a massive influence.

All people that children come into contact with will influence them but Im getting the undertone that you think it would be a negative influence? My DC loved their teachers -why is that a problem? Surely its good if a child likes their carer?

Referencing children who live on another floor to their parents is as helpful as me referencing the SAHP I saw screaming at her child and yanking her by the arms.
Yes it happens but its not an indication of how either WOHP or SAHP parent their children , so whats the point ?

Some really insecure people on here !

Of course children will be influenced by the different people in their lives. One of the biggest influences through my dd's childhood has been her amazing, inspiring dance teacher who dd absolutely adores. She has had a huge positive impact on my dd's life but she most certainly hasn't brought her up!

No I don’t think childminders are a negative influence! Didn’t mean that at all. I’m just saying, from a child’s point of view, especially a very young child who might spend a lot of time with a nanny or childminder one-on-one (if at home), that’s bound to be a massive influence. It’s not as if children go into suspended animation between 9-5. If a child spends a lot of time with a grandparent or other family member it’s a similar thing. Yjdys not taking anything away from parents whatsoever. I just feel that the role of childminders is too diminished sometimes, as if they are no more than a holding facility. A good nanny or childminder needs to be much more than that.

In terms of a childminder in a day care setting, probably there will probably be less “attachment” because there will be multiple adults and lots of other children. It’s a totally different environment to home. Also, a school setting has maybe 30 children to one teacher and by 4/5, it’s a different developmental stage and they are learning though socialisation with peers, not attachment to a primary caregiver.

morepizza In your circumstances though I suspect many people would have one partner giving up work because your husband sounds wealthy enough that the additional stress of you working doesn’t seem worth it.

I think most people acknowledge that having a sahp is actually lovely for children. I suspect though if you started going on about how hard it was for you you’d get short shrift. That is the difference. It is a very legitimate lifestyle choice especially if you’re wealthy.

I think most people acknowledge that having a sahp is actually lovely for children.

It is only lovely for children if the sahp is happy and fulfilled in that role. It's actually pretty shit if the sahp is bored and frustrated that they're wasting their potential.

I think a good childcare settings are also lovely for children. Mine loved their nurseries. My mother was a childminder for a while and the children in her care got a huge amount out of being there.

Both choices are fine! What does it say about the way this thread has gone that people actually feel the need to state that.