In thinking being a SAHM is work?

[morepizza]

Work is defined as:

noun
noun: work; plural noun: works; plural noun: the works
1 1. 
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

I think this includes SAH parental duties. I know a lot of people don't agree with me. What else would it be called?

SAHMs. Whilst there is no argument that you do things every day, please, please don’t put some of the suggestions on Showgirls list on a cv when applying for an actual job. Unless you want to give the person reading a cv which includes highlights like housework and walking your dog a real laugh

Sadly, it is barely recognised by recruiters or employers, if this is what you might mean, but this is often because we don't give credit to it ourselves.

But why would it be by employers? Unless actually directly relevant to the role..like say going to work in a nursery? I know you can argue transferable skills in interview situations but I don't think in most cases thats applicable to looking after your children/doing domestic tasks. It doesn't make your skills particularly unique either. Better to focus on skills acquired in other ways in my opinion when going to interview

[quote ShowGirlCoaching]Sadly, it is barely recognised by recruiters or employers, if this is what you might mean, but this is often because we don't give credit to it ourselves.

Think about writing it as a job description (homework, home schooling, , creativity, decorating, PE, organisation, cooking, chief dog walker and all the other stuff)

Think about all the 'roles' you play as a SAHM, and there you have the answer.
This might also help www.showgirlcoaching.com/post/9-ways-to-increase-self-awareness-and-then-confidence[/quote]
Think about it in whatever way suits you, by all means, but whatever you do, don't ever put this kind of thing on your cv when you eventually want to get back to work. You'll just make yourself look ridiculous.

Is everything work then, unless you actually want to do it?

I'm at home now. Dd and dh gone to a class. Ds is upstairs, apparently tidying his room. Have I been a manager today because I have delegated tasks to him?

I'm now about to do lesson planning. That's work, because it has to be done.

I'm going for a run after. I don't want to go for a run, but it's good for me. Is that work?

Sadly, it is barely recognised by recruiters or employers, if this is what you might mean, but this is often because we don't give credit to it ourselves

The simple explanation is that recruiters/ employers will have to tackle the housework and child rearing as well as doing their paid work.

You really can't stop being a parent.

[quote ShowGirlCoaching]Sadly, it is barely recognised by recruiters or employers, if this is what you might mean, but this is often because we don't give credit to it ourselves.

Think about writing it as a job description (homework, home schooling, , creativity, decorating, PE, organisation, cooking, chief dog walker and all the other stuff)

Think about all the 'roles' you play as a SAHM, and there you have the answer.
This might also help www.showgirlcoaching.com/post/9-ways-to-increase-self-awareness-and-then-confidence[/quote]
Those things are just everyday life things for people, SAHP or not. You can’t put it on a job application.

I was a SAHM for 5 years, I agree putting things in your CV like “household CEO” isn’t going to help. But voluntary experiences can do, like if you are going for an events coordinator role then your experience of single handily organisation school/church/charity events could be really relevant.

I would say yes moth.

Basically if your son is too young to be at home alone, you would need to pay someone to look after him, so yes, it’s work. You’d pay a babysitter, even if they just read a book and was just available if there were any problems. If he is old enough to be by himself, it might not be work to keep him safe, but it is work to teach him new skills.

The exercise could be work or leisure. Some people need to keep fit for a job and don’t get this exercise on their commute etc. So it’s necessary. Some people do it for leisure.

I think only by looking at things like this do we get an idea of someone’s workload (not that everyone can sustain the same workload, but at least it would be consistent).

Same should apply for people’s jobs.

To make it more sophisticated, you can add in intensity of different work - eg being ‘on-call’ to actively performing a task.
I think that way you can get an idea for how much leisure time someone has. Some wohp who are married fo sahps and don’t do much other stuff, might have less leisure time than sahps.

Yep. That kind of thing is definitely worth putting on if your cv is short of detail. Certain volunteering roles do have transferable skills and involve complexity and responsibility. Walking your dog and cleaning your house are tasks that all adults should be able to do.

Please never put that on a CV, unless you want it chucked whilst the recruiter laughs wildly. Just say for gaps in employment that you were a SAHM, they will know what that entails.

@Resilience

Yes it's work. Biggest trick capitalism ever pulled. All societies require a constant replenishing of young people to survive. Children are a necessity for social/species survival as well as a personal choice/biological urge. Children require rearing. They die alarmingly often if not cared for and fail to contribute to the future working pool if not taught sufficient skills. They cannot be bought fully formed as young adults or self teach and therefore have to be gestated and taught. Someone has to provide this labour. Men benefit from this just as much as women and are 50% responsible for creating the next generation. Without it, society is doomed. Yet because it's largely performed by women and has no immediate economic reward, it's become valueless economically. This is such a con!

Working parents by definition also produce children to "replenish society" while carrying out economic activity as well, so this post is irrelevant.

@AudacityBaby

I was struck by a comment much earlier in the thread that said being a SAHP was harder than employment because you get no bonuses and no reward.

There’s a weird theme running through this thread, where some parents are so vigorously trying to establish how hard and thankless parenting is that they tip into this weird place where it’s like their children were forced into their lives and they need society to recognise their selflessness in raising them.

I don’t think anybody thinks that having children is a breeze, of course it involves work and of course toddlers are tyrannical etc but the degree of martyrdom is really, really strange.

On the lists - I’m a solicitor and once had a parent laugh and say they basically had legal experience from negotiating with and persuading incalcitrant toddlers.

Lol. Agree completely. And I've heard several times that a SAHP is qualified in my profession (which takes 7 years to train for!) because they have spent time looking after their own children.

[quote ShowGirlCoaching]Sadly, it is barely recognised by recruiters or employers, if this is what you might mean, but this is often because we don't give credit to it ourselves.

Think about writing it as a job description (homework, home schooling, , creativity, decorating, PE, organisation, cooking, chief dog walker and all the other stuff)

Think about all the 'roles' you play as a SAHM, and there you have the answer.
This might also help www.showgirlcoaching.com/post/9-ways-to-increase-self-awareness-and-then-confidence[/quote]
As was noted earlier in the thread, occasionally it has been known for people to write an embarrassing list of roles they are neither qualified for or ever held on their CV rather than "career break". I can assure you that such CVs are almost always binned. A career break is absolutely fine, as a recruiter myself. Pretending that you've got specialised skills in multiple industries you've never worked in because you do exactly the things that all parents do with their children - whether they are in paid employment or not - is ridiculous.

@TheMoth

Is everything work then, unless you actually want to do it?

I'm at home now. Dd and dh gone to a class. Ds is upstairs, apparently tidying his room. Have I been a manager today because I have delegated tasks to him?

I'm now about to do lesson planning. That's work, because it has to be done.

I'm going for a run after. I don't want to go for a run, but it's good for me. Is that work?

Apparently it is. Today I've been a restaurant chaperone, a playground attendant, a chef, a carer, a laundry manager, a kitchen porter, a teacher, a therapist, a security consultant, a chaffeur, a hairdresser, an art therapist, an interior designer, a waste management operative, a personal shopper and a librarian. Go me!

Otherwise known as "a day off with the kids".

Except nobody has even remotely implied they would put any such thing on a CV .

If you really need to patronise SAHMs, youlll have to try harder than that, I’m afraid.

@Lulalu

Except nobody has even remotely implied they would put any such thing on a CV .

If you really need to patronise SAHMs, youlll have to try harder than that, I’m afraid.

There have been people who suggest that being a SAHP means you have to be a nurse, a chef, a project manager, a chauffeur etc. That is embarrassing.

I have been off work today, by myself as my husband is working away. I have done all the parenting and housework. I still haven't been at work though.

[quote ShowGirlCoaching]Sadly, it is barely recognised by recruiters or employers, if this is what you might mean, but this is often because we don't give credit to it ourselves.

Think about writing it as a job description (homework, home schooling, , creativity, decorating, PE, organisation, cooking, chief dog walker and all the other stuff)

Think about all the 'roles' you play as a SAHM, and there you have the answer.
This might also help www.showgirlcoaching.com/post/9-ways-to-increase-self-awareness-and-then-confidence[/quote]
@Lulalu you must have missed this.

Yes but that’s just suggesting people stop to self-reflect if they’re low in confidence or whatever. It could apply to parenting in general. It’s not literally telling people to state such things on a CV!

I just checked the link and it has nothing to do with parenting even - more about self-awareness in general.

From someone who could only stick out being a SAHM for about a month after I ended my maternity leave; and finds my full time job easier than being a SAHM, I would take my hat off to you and bow. It is absolutely work.

It’s not a paid job; but it is bloody hard work and honestly I can’t imagine how much patience, resilience, strength and motivation it must take every single day.

My DD is 17 months and without DP home during the week I would find it so draining and incredibly stressful. She’s pretty clingy and whines if I do much as leave the room at the moment, her naps are all over the place and she’s in a phase of tantruming over the tiniest thing.

I’m just not cut out for being a SAHM, I wish I was though as I’d love to spend all my time with her. It makes out weekends, morning and evenings a lot more special but I do wish I had her home with me more.

Yes but that’s just suggesting people stop to self-reflect if they’re low in confidence or whatever. It could apply to parenting in general. It’s not literally telling people to state such things on a CV! @Lulalu thank you for highlighting.

As you can see from my comment up thread I actually read it as you can use this on your CV/interview. Having re-read the comment I can see you are right...it's more a statement on confidence. I apologise @ShowGirlCoaching

“Escapeas

Resilience
Yes it's work.
Biggest trick capitalism ever pulled.
All societies require a constant replenishing of young people to survive. Children are a necessity for social/species survival as well as a personal choice/biological urge.
Children require rearing. They die alarmingly often if not cared for and fail to contribute to the future working pool if not taught sufficient skills.
They cannot be bought fully formed as young adults or self teach and therefore have to be gestated and taught.
Someone has to provide this labour.
Men benefit from this just as much as women and are 50% responsible for creating the next generation.
Without it, society is doomed.
Yet because it's largely performed by women and has no immediate economic reward, it's become valueless economically.
This is such a con!

Working parents by definition also produce children to "replenish society" while carrying out economic activity as well, so this post is irrelevant“

But Escapeas working parents need to pay someone to do part a large part of that work of bringing up children - nannies, child-minders, nursery teachers. If they earn enough to do this. If they don’t they might have to stay at home unpaid or enlist the help of unpaid relatives.

In the case of older children there is still the need for after school and holiday care to be paid for.

In Italy I think I have heard that the next generation is not really being produced in high enough numbers as it is all so difficult to find a way to make both ends meet. Here people have to pay £2000 a month for a nursery in London.

SAH parents do not get paid. Working parents lose their pay to the extent they must sometimes wonder if they can afford children. SAH have little money and find it difficult to afford children too. It is all complicated isn’t it?

Some people would rather not have children if they cannot look after them themselves as babies, toddlers, as children getting out of school at 3.00, as teenagers with stresses etc.

@Lulalu

Except nobody has even remotely implied they would put any such thing on a CV .

If you really need to patronise SAHMs, youlll have to try harder than that, I’m afraid.

People actually have! I have seen in, in person, on CVs! And I've seen very misguided people on mumsnet advise SAHP to frame their time at home like that, even on CVs. It is a very bad idea.

But Escapeas working parents need to pay someone to do part a large part of that work of bringing up children

This is insulting. Childcare care for children. By definition. Their parents bring them up, regardless of whether they work. They measure their feet and think about whether they'll need new shoes. Get them new clothes as they grow. Do their school applications, get diagnosed and deal with any health issues they have. Apply for schools for them. Care for them when sick. Get up with them every time they have a nightmare. Support them through any difficulty they have. Love them no matter what. Do any thing to support them, emotionally or financially - whatever they need. Boost their self-esteem, give them a secure attachment, a stable home, a place to always come back to if they need it. To feel loved and cared for and safe.

That is what being a parent is. I never had that. But I think most decent parents would agree with me and the suggestion that this is dependent upon whether the mother works or not is frankly insulting.

My mother was a SAHM. She was a shitty mother. My childhood was traumatic. Many SAHPs are fantastic. Many friends who had working parents had great lives. You are generalising from a position of ignorance and it is insulting. Particularly to me as I'm now a single working mother, and others like me. I manage alone, doing all of the apparently "so hard" stuff in my spare time, while also paying for a four bedroom house on my own (yes, in the SE). So stop with the judgemental bullshit, please.

I'm also well aware of nursery costs and agree that is one of the things that has to change for women to be free. I am on my own and nursery costs are £4k per month. Before I pay for my house etc. With zero help from the state or their father. It is a joke. Thank fuck I studied a lot when I was young and worked those 100 hour weeks in my 20s.