To hate having to work after the kids have gone to bed

[polexiaaphrodesia]

Another evening of putting the DC (5&2) to bed and then logging back on to my work laptop to finish off a load of work I havent managed to get done during the day because I finish at 5pm to do the school and nursery run.

It's hot, I'm tired and I thoroughly resent DH who does the school drop off in the morning for DS, gets to his desk for 8.45am, pops out of his office for dinner at 6.30pm and then like a bloody meerkat dives back into his office to work until all the bathtime and general getting kids to bed fuckery is over. And then announces he's off to the gym as he's finished work for the day while I log back on.

I take DD to nursery for 8am, get home at 8.10am then work until 5.15pm when I pick up both kids, bring them home, make dinner, bath, bed etc then back at the bloody laptop again. We are both fairly senior in our roles and working over contracted hours is considered par for the course but I am getting very annoyed that he only has to do 1/4 of the school and nursery runs, gets to do his work in one uninterrupted chunk, gets dinner made for him and then misses bedtime as he's working.

It's the same for every bloody man in my team as well - they all have someone at home picking up the slack so don't have to work late into the evenings and do nice stuff for them like cycling or going to the gym etc. Just me and all the other mums in my team online at 8.30pm doing the "mum shift" trying to keep our careers alive.

Sorry, rant over. I know I need to speak to DH who will start going on about his promotion for the good of the family and how it means he needs needing to be on calls at 6pm so can't get the kids but flexible working isn't really as great as everyone makes out for women. We're flexing but we're online at night while the men are having their down time.

Seriously, why? A number of people on here have said they do just that. What is the worst that could happen if she kept to reasonable working hours, given that she is part time?

LOL at the idea that the public sector - NHS at least - doesn't expect unpaid OT.

What is the worst that could happen if she kept to reasonable working hours, given that she is part time?

She’d be managed out.

Or sidelined into the crap projects that no one cares about - and then first in line for redundancies if they happen.

It depends on the job doesn’t it?

I have 7.00am calls and also calls that go on to 20.00 a couple times a week to catch different time zones.

I also have periods of downtime where I can go for a run, chill with the paper and a cup of tea for an hour. Im not working 7.00-20.00 every day.

Some periods are super busy and I might finish at 2am.

Monday I barley did anything. 🤷‍♀️

@KeflavikAirport

Sure. But how did we get to a point where people in the private sector are expected to work such insane hours? Rhetorical question, I know how we got there. But it's crazy. OP needs to put boundaries in place with her DH AND her job and she should not be penalised for doing so either way.

In all honesty, unpaid overtime for up to 48 hours does not mean that you will routinely be required to work that if you are officially part-time. What I personally struggled with is rather the sudden and unpredictable swelling of the work volumes, where you are expected to work all hours possible - but you had already planned your life under the assumption that you are off on two days (i.e. don't have childcare, maybe booked a trip somewhere or a medical appointment etc). For me, eventually part-time work was more stress than full time because of this.

And yes, I agree with other posters that flexible hours / scandi-style part-time may look good on the surface but in many cases actually harms working mothers.

I had a client (I was contracting with them, not employed) who had proudly declared that 100% of part time working requests during the last year were granted. And - surprise! - there also has been not a single new hire during the same period to cover the gaps.

And of course there are quieter times and she should have flexibility then, but when the work needs to be done, the work needs to be done.

@KitKatLife101

Unfortunately this is the modern day set up for many women that I know anyway, work pay bills do all the childcare and all the house work! Honestly think that the old way of men work women stay at home worked better in that at least women were able to be with their children and not exhausted from doing it all!!!

And for many it is not. I work 0.8, term time only. My husband is full time. I do 99% of pick ups. He does 99% of school drop offs. I do 80% of meals. He jumps in and cooks when it is more convenient. If "the load" inlcudes earning money, running the house and looking after the kids I'd say we share it pretty evenly between us. I know a lot of people in similar set ups. The difference here I think is that we aren't high earners. We are comfortable enough, but work is just work. Maybe it's easier to say no to unpaid overtime when you aren't earning brilliantly to start with.

OP - both your husband and your work are taking advantage of you. Sounds absolutely shit and I hope something changes

apparently he's now going to go down two rungs of the ladder to be on a par with me so we can split absolutely everything 50:50

Call his bluff. 'I think that's a great idea dh, however we start with 50/50 now, so you're now doing half the bedtime etc etc'

Just because he earns 50% more doesn't mean he gets to do 50% less outside of work. Let him do his little spread sheet and he'll soon realise just how childish he's being (or not, very often these men don't)

@TheKeatingFive

What is the worst that could happen if she kept to reasonable working hours, given that she is part time?

She’d be managed out.

Or sidelined into the crap projects that no one cares about - and then first in line for redundancies if they happen.

Exactly- the threat of this is very real to working mothers.

I went back to work at 6 weeks pp because I knew I would be sidelined if I didn't. It's unspoken but we all know it's there!

OP- I want to kick your husband on your behalf. I relate to everything you said and have had some tough chats with my husband. He has stepped up and is brilliant, I hope your H realises what a fool he is being.
You sound very patient

Would you not have a sex discrimination case against your employer if they did that? I mean, it is so obviously anti-women as a policy, why should we bend over and take it?

Would you not have a sex discrimination case against your employer if they did that?

That’s a very public sector thing to say, if you don’t mind me commenting.

They’d never actually document that as a reason. So no.

Well besides doing fuck all for him and just concentrating on myself and the kids I would start by putting a nail in his tyre if he goes cycling -

If he goes to the gym I would remove or throw away his laces or his trainers 😂
I would mysteriously misplace the car keys so he can’t go to the gym
But I’m petty like that
But if your working 8-5 and then logging back in at 8pm something is wrong
Have you always worked from home
If not what were your hours previously when you worked in the office
Surely you didn’t do the same hrs

So in the private sector there is absolutely no possible come back against an employer taking the absolute piss?

Your husband sounds absolutely vile. As for the evenings spent working, I wonder how much of that is him watching sport on his phone and waiting until bedtime is over?

Im a single parent and work full time and it's much easier in many ways when you don't have the extra stress of increasing resentment.

I think it's a bit hypocritical to challenge the culture of working mothers are constantly working and always the ones being flexible in comparison to working fathers, but not wanting to challenge the culture of working unpaid hours being "par for the course", which seems to be the source of the issues.

So in the private sector there is absolutely no possible come back against an employer taking the absolute piss?

Pretty much.

Except that people will leave and they’ll get a reputation for being a poor employer comparatively.

I think it's a bit hypocritical to challenge the culture of working mothers are constantly working and always the ones being flexible in comparison to working fathers, but not wanting to challenge the culture of working unpaid hours being "par for the course"

Well it may or may not be hypocritical, but it’s certainly the practical approach.

The OP isn’t going to be instigating a workplace revolution across many powerful sectors and companies

[quote KeflavikAirport]@HaveringWavering, how do jobs like that reconcile "work all the hours needed" with "working part time"? I mean there comes a point where you have to be able to say these hours are reasonable, these are not. There must be rules.[/quote]
Hi @KeflavikAirport. Good question. I will answer this later, right now I’m too busy working .

@KeflavikAirport

Call me a featherbedded public sector softy, but why the fuck do people agree to do 24 hours unpaid overtime? Why would you sign a contract like that?

I'm an academic we don't have contracted hours at my institution. Our teaching and admin went up 60% this year because of covid. So that leaves no time during working hours for research which is what you need to actually remain employed or have a chance at progression. So you have to work evenings and weekends if you want to stay afloat. And try telling the panicking student messaging you on Teams on Saturday night that their boyfriend has left them and they're suicidal that you're out of office until Monday at 9am.

@TheKeatingFive

she should not be penalised for doing so either way.

It’s all very well saying that, but neither she nor you have any power to ensure she won’t be penalised.

And I do think most people in demanding private sector jobs could push back and manage time better to some degree. But logging off at 5pm every just isn’t the slightest bit realistic.

I agree with most if what you say @TheKeatingFive. However it is interesting that OP says her male colleagues do mostly log off at 6pm. I get that that is actually quite a big difference as 5pm means you can’t attend meetings that others have scheduled within the standard working day, however what doesn’t quite add up is that for her losing that hour at the end of the day is resulting in several hours extra work in the evening.

however what doesn’t quite add up is that for her losing that hour at the end of the day is resulting in several hours extra work in the evening.

True

The issue is you are both working really long hours. You have a 9 hour window to work. I would seriously consider your work life balance if your working day exceeds 9 hours (unless you are working 3x long days)

however what doesn’t quite add up is that for her losing that hour at the end of the day is resulting in several hours extra work in the evening

I find I lose some efficiencies in taking a bath and bedtime break and then restarting. It’s not just making up an hour. You might end up stopping say 15 minutes earlier than required because there’s not much point in trying to get into a new task for that long. Then it takes a few minutes to get back into something when you log back on. It’s like if you have a day which consists of 8 half hour meetings with half an hour break in between your day is much less efficient than if you have a solid 4 hours of meetings then a solid 4 hours to work.

@TeachesOfPeaches

Your husband sounds absolutely vile. As for the evenings spent working, I wonder how much of that is him watching sport on his phone and waiting until bedtime is over?

Im a single parent and work full time and it's much easier in many ways when you don't have the extra stress of increasing resentment.

Yes to this too ^ I know of men who are deliberately busy working until dinner time and bedtime is over. One in particular laughs about it too

@GorekyPark

flexible working isn't really as great as everyone makes out for women. We're flexing but we're online at night while the men are having their down time

Hold on now, "we" are not any such thing. I'm not online at night, I do my work during my contracted hours, and I do about 40% of the childcare tasks and housework.

Please don't conflate your unequal arrangements with the notion that we are all in the same boat.

I felt the same way reading the OP's posts, a whole lot of generalising going on. But, reading through the thread an awful lot of people seem to be in the same boat so it does seem like a problem. Thankfully, I don't see it in my own life. All the dads I know in my friends group are very hands on, mums have no problems meeting up for cocktails or whatever on a weeknight evening on a whim.