My Pregnancy, My Wine and DH.

[ThymeCrisis]

I’ve namechanged for this but I’ve been around a long time.

Last night DH and I went out for dinner. I’m 6 months pregnant. It was a lovely local Italian place and he ordered a Peroni, I ordered a glass of Prosecco. It was fairly late because he’d watched the first half of the football in the pub after work first, and I’d joined him later, so he’d already had a fair few pints beforehand.

For context, I have been having the odd (125ml) glass of wine or champagne or Prosecco approx once a week (occasionally twice, but I wouldn’t have two drinks on the same night) since I was 16 weeks or so. I felt too ropey before that to contemplate it. Always have the drink with food, always sip very slowly. I was big into wine before I got pregnant and after doing a lot of research (I do have the Emily Oster book but I read lots more research and have come to the conclusion that it’s a negligible ‘risk’ on such a small scale and felt comfortable with my decision. We are talking 1.5 units here.

DH was a bit quiet after I ordered the Prosecco. We had a nice meal and walked home, he then made himself a gin and tonic, and I had a fake version with an M&S seedlip rip off. I asked him if he was ok and why he’d been a bit off. He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking.

I didn’t notice any judgement, and never have, but frankly I wouldn’t care if there was. He also reminded me of the time we had some family round and I had a glass of champagne, and said he’d felt unhappy about it then too.

The reasons he is giving are that he knows of no one who drank in pregnancy (bar our own mothers who drank according to the guidelines in the mid 80’s at the time) and he thinks a big reason I do it is to ‘challenge’ the patriarchy and to go against the rules, not because I truly fancy a glass of wine. This is bullshit but I have ranted before about pregnant woman being infantilised and deemed not capable of critical thought. We don’t really actually know many other friends that have gone through pregnancy either, but he maintains they would have cut out all alcohol. Yes I know what the NHS guidelines say but I’m of the opinion that they say ‘none at all’ because it’s safer than ‘trusting’ women to not underestimate the units in a glass of wine etc or use it as an excuse to binge. Which I would absolutely never do. I know what a unit is.

For what it’s worth I’ve cut down, but not eliminated, caffeine, and I eat soft cheese and Parma ham too, and I have my steak rare or medium-rare.

He is now saying that the drinking is not something he’s comfortable with anymore and just because I have a book that says it’s fine I just have no way to know if we’ve put our unborn son at risk or not, and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop. He can’t handle me ordering a drink in public anymore as it just makes him feel too uncomfortable- it didn’t so much when I didn’t have a bump but he hates the fact that ‘people are judging and looking at us’ now that I do.

I fully expect to get some replies about how he’s right and I am being reckless with my pregnancy, and that it’s only 9 months and why can’t I just cut it out all together, and the answer is, I had weighed up or thought I’d weighed up, whether I truly I had to, and considered myself to be in very safe limits. I like the taste of good wine and the foods it goes with. Yes I’ve tried alcohol free wine and it’s rank, I’d be more likely to cut everything out than drink pretend versions.

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby (for what it’s worth I had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, and I know that was not down to alcohol as I hadn’t drunk at all as I lost it in the first trimester, so it didn’t affect my decision to have the odd drink in this pregnancy) and also that he’s inflicting other peoples judgments on me and just generally making me feel really bad. He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

So hit me with it- am I being unreasonable?

OP you are, of course, totally 100% right.
I did the same.
I hate the sanctimonious one-upmanship that comes with pregnancy.
I hate the idea that women should give up things just for appearances.

As to those who say that they couldn't forgive themselves/would always wonder if they had done something wrong in cases of miscarriage, still-birth, developmental issues.....I think this symptomatic of our modern Western belief that we have that level of control, that if we do everything right everything will be alright, of the industry (and it is an industry) devoted to preganancy and early childhood much of which plays on our fears, combined with a real failure to handle death. Miscarriage in particular is incredibly common and I would assume is rarely about what the mother did or didn't too. Life is fucking hard and unfair, bad things happen and causes are complex and sometimes there are no causes and no one to blame. I think we collectively need to unclench, accept the vagaries of life more stoically and stop judging one another so harshly. It seems that amongst some there is a now a competitive element to who can deliver the 'best' pregancy, no doubt it'll soon move to our behaviour in the 5 years before pregnancy.

Slightly an aside but does it strike anyone else as a kind of a luxury to get so het up over one woman's one glass of wine per week when as we write there are millions of women in the world with very hard lives, little or no prenatal care and no choice but to continue to work and struggle harder than most of us will ever know. A little perspective wouldn't go astray.

Slightly an aside but does it strike anyone else as a kind of a luxury to get so het up over one woman's one glass of wine per week when as we write there are millions of women in the world with very hard lives, little or no prenatal care and no choice but to continue to work and struggle harder than most of us will ever know. A little perspective wouldn't go astray

Totally agree. First world problems. People get a thrill out of judging others for nonsensical crap.

Ok so it’s more likely someone lies about being teetotal than drinking. Probably there’s the same incidence if fibbage going on everywhere, so just inflate those alcohol drinking incidence numbers by whatever percentage you like.. the correlation is still there. And if you want to think EUR people are more truthful, the gap is still huge.. you can’t argue with those numbers, frankly

Why would there be the same amount of fibbage everywhere? It's bound to be influenced by guidelines in the country, cultural attitudes to drinking (whether or not pregnant) and whether or not alcohol is legal.

I think some people are only getting so het up on here because A MAN dared to have an opinion on a woman's bodily choices.

Not really. It’s because this particular man has taken 6 months to express this opinion. If he really cared, he could have said something earlier. And his concern is more about other people’s tut-tutting attitude than about the baby.

Well he was happy enough to get you pregnant right? Putting his loved one at risk of gestational diabetes, eclampsia, haemorrhage, infection, 3rd degree tearing, prolapse, postpartum psychosis, postnatal depression etc etc. But he doesn't want the baby exposed to (or being seen to be exposed to) a miniscule amount of alcohol at the stage of pregnancy when it least matters. Sounds like he's crap at risk assessment .

Firstly, you make it sound like he forced her to get and stay pregnant, so as to have a baby that only he wanted. Does she have no agency herself in deciding that she might also want a baby - by no means an uncommon deep-seated desire among hundreds of thousands of women; arguably more so than for men.

It's all about cost/benefit, though, and what is and what isn't within your control. There are a lot of risks associated with pregnancy, which simply can't be 100% avoided if you want a baby. Deciding to give up alcohol and a very few other potentially harmful foods for 9 months is a very easy way (unless you have alcohol dependency) of ensuring that, whatever else may happen, your baby can be guaranteed not to be harmed by the effects of consuming alcohol.

You might as well say that you won't ever live in a house, because there's always a small risk that your house could burn down, and you will only ever live outdoors in a lush, verdant meadow. That would obviously be a silly approach to risk. On the other hand, you can ensure that you always check you've turned the gas off, never leave naked flames unattended, never smoke (if you do) in bed etc. - these are very sensible approaches to risk, and very easy to do.

I wonder if the defensive posters have a point at which they would consider the OP's DH's concerns justified. Two glasses a week? Three? A glass a day? A bottle a day? Or is it really "her body, her choice, end of"? It's just a question of scale, isn't it? Or would you also defend a pregnant woman who was choosing to drink vodka daily or smoke 40 cigs a day?

Very well said. Somebody we know regularly got into fights with other (presumably non-pregnant) women whilst she was pregnant - at the pub, in fact, after she'd had several drinks. What if a (non-drinking) female boxer got pregnant and decided she wasn't going to put her career on hold until after the birth? Her body, her choice? What would you think of the other (non-pregnant) women if they refused to fight her (whether in the pub car park or at a professional match)? Would you judge them if they 'respected' her choice to fight and thus 'respectfully' went on to fully lay into her in the course of the fight?

If, of your own volition, you decided to invite somebody very vulnerable to come and live with you at close quarters (which is effectively what you do when you get pregnant and decide to stay pregnant) - somebody without the agency or ability to look after themselves or to leave independently - would you be within your full moral rights to give them very out of date food out of your fridge and keep all the nice fresh stuff for yourself? Tell them they can't put the lights on at night to help them get safely to the toilet because of the cost of electricity, but you can if you need to go? They're a wheelchair user, but you don't bother to get a cheap, simple ramp and expect them to struggle greatly by bumping themselves up over the step, as you have no problems stepping over it and you think it looks a bit nicer 'without an ugly ramp there'?

Your house, your choice, is it?

@Belladonna12

Ok so it’s more likely someone lies about being teetotal than drinking. Probably there’s the same incidence if fibbage going on everywhere, so just inflate those alcohol drinking incidence numbers by whatever percentage you like.. the correlation is still there. And if you want to think EUR people are more truthful, the gap is still huge.. you can’t argue with those numbers, frankly

Why would there be the same amount of fibbage everywhere? It's bound to be influenced by guidelines in the country, cultural attitudes to drinking (whether or not pregnant) and whether or not alcohol is legal.

Yes yes, and I said above , even if you want to believe EUR respondents lied the least, the gap is so huge that it’s impossible to ignore the correlation. You seem hellbent on ignoring data, im not a medical researcher and I guess neither are you.. so I personally prefer to look ay results from published studies when making my mind up about certain things…

@tentimesaday

Slightly an aside but does it strike anyone else as a kind of a luxury to get so het up over one woman's one glass of wine per week when as we write there are millions of women in the world with very hard lives, little or no prenatal care and no choice but to continue to work and struggle harder than most of us will ever know. A little perspective wouldn't go astray

Totally agree. First world problems. People get a thrill out of judging others for nonsensical crap.

It's the opposite for me. Drinking alcohol is not a necessity. 1-2 drinks per week may cause harm or it may not. But there is a speculative risk. Either way, some people are bending over backwards to defend drinking during pregnancy. We come across as such an alcohol dependent country that we can'tabstain for 9months. Yes, across the world there are women with very difficult lives. They would not be getting indignant about being able to drink their wine throughout pregnancy.

First world problems indeed.

and so it has begun. Welcome to parenting. You are not always going to agree to the same approach so its good you set some respectful ground rules now so you can manage these sorts of discussions successfully.
What actually stuck out for me is if he wants you to reduce your alcohol consumption he needs to do the same in my opinion for moral support.

Slightly an aside but does it strike anyone else as a kind of a luxury to get so het up over one woman's one glass of wine per week when as we write there are millions of women in the world with very hard lives, little or no prenatal care and no choice but to continue to work and struggle harder than most of us will ever know. A little perspective wouldn't go astray.

It's not a race to the bottom, though. Tragically, millions of people around the world are starving, but that doesn't mean you'd let your own child go hungry or even just exist on nothing but Haribo and Mars Bars, if you have the money and the wherewithal to feed them a nutritionally-balanced diet.

Surely, instead of trying to restrict your choices like women in very poor countries, where they have no alternative, you should be all the more grateful that we live in a wealthy, developed nation, where we do have these choices, and thus make good ones. Appallingly, plenty of people in the world have no choice but to drink filthy, disease-ridden water; would you plead solidarity with them and head on down to your local canal with a jerry can instead of just turning on the tap in your kitchen?

You seem hellbent on ignoring data, im not a medical researcher and I guess neither are you.. so I personally prefer to look ay results from published studies when making my mind up about certain things…

What makes you think I'm not a medical researcher? I'm not "hellbent" on ignoring the data. Why would I be? I'm just pointing out that the numbers are very much estimates and you seem seem hellbent on insisting they are they are accurate despite the fact the table is from a study titled "Estimation of national, regional, and global prevalence of alcohol use during pregnancy and fetal alcohol syndrome"

It was a way upthread, but I also think a middle-class pregnant woman drinking Prosecco in a fancy bar would not receive the same reaction on here as a pregnant woman on benefits saying she liked a can of White Lightning now and again whilst waiting to pick her older kids up from school.

Because alcohol presumably knows what class you are and treats you accordingly....

I don't think you should take any risks with your baby.research is changing all the time and it may come to light the things that are considered ok are not.Like drinking just 125mil of bubbly wine.But your dh should abstain with you 100%.
So I think you are both being a bit unreasonable.
You come across as determined to carry on drinking and eating whatever you want so not sure why you posted.

The comments saying your husband is bothered about what others think, rather than the baby, are unfair. The fact he has had to "come to terms" with you drinking in the house suggests he is not happy with you drinking in pregnancy at all, but is powerless in this situation. I agree he could be more supportive and not drink around you. However, you do come across as childish and selfish, based on your OP. Also, it is his child too. His opinions do count too, especially when they are motivated out of concern for the baby. I imagine this is causing him quite a bit of emotional distress.

Yes it does appear OP wanted reassurance from other posters that drink as opposed to genuine opinions

Can someone spouting all this sexism bollocks please address the very good point made by a PP:

What if the OP's partner was a woman?

Telling people to stop telling OP they disagree with her doesn't make much sense. It seems she came on for people to agree with her, most have said YABU and she isn't happy. If you ask for opinions people will give them... I haven't read every post but telling people to go away if they don't support her choice seems worse.

@ArnoldJudasRimmer

Telling people to stop telling OP they disagree with her doesn't make much sense. It seems she came on for people to agree with her, most have said YABU and she isn't happy. If you ask for opinions people will give them... I haven't read every post but telling people to go away if they don't support her choice seems worse.

Who is saying that? Of course it's fine to say you disagree with the OP, it's how you say it that's the issue.

Telling her she's selfish, or alcohol dependant, or insinuating she's a bad mother already is completely disproportionate to what she posted.

And I say all this as someone who posted to say I agree with her husband.

There is no safe level of alcohol though. Plus your still drinking regularly. I didn't drink at all with my first and had one drink at a wedding with my second. You've judged the risk you're happy with, your OH clearly judges differently

It's your baby, so you decide to how much you drink while pregnant. I had a colleague in my old job who was too fond of prosecco (and very defensive about her alcohol problem) and she also drank while pregnant. If you can't give it up for only nine months, maybe you should ask yourself why?

Hm this is hard.i drank a little during both pregnancies (just for context). I do think you are minimising how much you are drinking. And I dont think your OH is out of order to be concerned. I get that it sucks for.us to be the ones that are pregnant but that's just life. I do think MN really tries to have a go at men come whatmay
. I also think the discussions about caffeine and paracetamol etc are irrelevant and what abouttery.

I dont think you are being unreasonable to drink whilst pregnant though and it shouldnt make a difference if you are in public or private.

e such a fantastic species. But this isn’t what he did, he was fine then felt awkward when other people were around. Supporting his DW in private but not publicly.

@Crispychillibeef

Can someone spouting all this sexism bollocks please address the very good point made by a PP:

What if the OP's partner was a woman?

In this case, the female partner wouldn't even be the father-to-be and so would have even less right to an opinion.

@Looubylou

The comments saying your husband is bothered about what others think, rather than the baby, are unfair. The fact he has had to "come to terms" with you drinking in the house suggests he is not happy with you drinking in pregnancy at all, but is powerless in this situation. I agree he could be more supportive and not drink around you. However, you do come across as childish and selfish, based on your OP. Also, it is his child too. His opinions do count too, especially when they are motivated out of concern for the baby. I imagine this is causing him quite a bit of emotional distress.

Well said. In addition, OP claims she did not drink the first 16 weeks because she was “too ropey”. I’m guessing this is reference to morning sickness? So really if she didn’t start drinking until week 17 and is now 6 months pregnant, or around 24-25 weeks, he’s not had that much time to process his nondrinking pregnant wife to one who is drinking regularly.

Kisskiss
“This is what the science says .
Results of a study published by Popova et al. The table shows by WHO Geographical región, rates of alcohol consumption during pregnancy (any) vs rates of FAS syndrome
www.thelancet.com/action/showFullTableHTML?isHtml=true&tableId=tbl1&pii=S2214-109X%2817%2930021-9”

Belladonna
“It's all an estimate though and likely to be incredibly inaccurate.”

All studies are estimates when they take the data from their study groups and extrapolate it to the population level. Everything medical is like that. It doesn’t make it inaccurate any more than the effectiveness rates for Covid vaccines or the numbers of people who will develop cancer by smoking, or, even the crime surveys produced by ONS that say 1 in 4 women raped. But you don’t dismiss those numbers do you? Not unless you’re a smoking anti-vaxxer who thinks rape is regret.