My Pregnancy, My Wine and DH.

[ThymeCrisis]

I’ve namechanged for this but I’ve been around a long time.

Last night DH and I went out for dinner. I’m 6 months pregnant. It was a lovely local Italian place and he ordered a Peroni, I ordered a glass of Prosecco. It was fairly late because he’d watched the first half of the football in the pub after work first, and I’d joined him later, so he’d already had a fair few pints beforehand.

For context, I have been having the odd (125ml) glass of wine or champagne or Prosecco approx once a week (occasionally twice, but I wouldn’t have two drinks on the same night) since I was 16 weeks or so. I felt too ropey before that to contemplate it. Always have the drink with food, always sip very slowly. I was big into wine before I got pregnant and after doing a lot of research (I do have the Emily Oster book but I read lots more research and have come to the conclusion that it’s a negligible ‘risk’ on such a small scale and felt comfortable with my decision. We are talking 1.5 units here.

DH was a bit quiet after I ordered the Prosecco. We had a nice meal and walked home, he then made himself a gin and tonic, and I had a fake version with an M&S seedlip rip off. I asked him if he was ok and why he’d been a bit off. He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking.

I didn’t notice any judgement, and never have, but frankly I wouldn’t care if there was. He also reminded me of the time we had some family round and I had a glass of champagne, and said he’d felt unhappy about it then too.

The reasons he is giving are that he knows of no one who drank in pregnancy (bar our own mothers who drank according to the guidelines in the mid 80’s at the time) and he thinks a big reason I do it is to ‘challenge’ the patriarchy and to go against the rules, not because I truly fancy a glass of wine. This is bullshit but I have ranted before about pregnant woman being infantilised and deemed not capable of critical thought. We don’t really actually know many other friends that have gone through pregnancy either, but he maintains they would have cut out all alcohol. Yes I know what the NHS guidelines say but I’m of the opinion that they say ‘none at all’ because it’s safer than ‘trusting’ women to not underestimate the units in a glass of wine etc or use it as an excuse to binge. Which I would absolutely never do. I know what a unit is.

For what it’s worth I’ve cut down, but not eliminated, caffeine, and I eat soft cheese and Parma ham too, and I have my steak rare or medium-rare.

He is now saying that the drinking is not something he’s comfortable with anymore and just because I have a book that says it’s fine I just have no way to know if we’ve put our unborn son at risk or not, and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop. He can’t handle me ordering a drink in public anymore as it just makes him feel too uncomfortable- it didn’t so much when I didn’t have a bump but he hates the fact that ‘people are judging and looking at us’ now that I do.

I fully expect to get some replies about how he’s right and I am being reckless with my pregnancy, and that it’s only 9 months and why can’t I just cut it out all together, and the answer is, I had weighed up or thought I’d weighed up, whether I truly I had to, and considered myself to be in very safe limits. I like the taste of good wine and the foods it goes with. Yes I’ve tried alcohol free wine and it’s rank, I’d be more likely to cut everything out than drink pretend versions.

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby (for what it’s worth I had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, and I know that was not down to alcohol as I hadn’t drunk at all as I lost it in the first trimester, so it didn’t affect my decision to have the odd drink in this pregnancy) and also that he’s inflicting other peoples judgments on me and just generally making me feel really bad. He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

So hit me with it- am I being unreasonable?

[Belladonna12]

@me4real

I'm not sure that many medics would agree that 2 to 3 units a week will harm the baby.

*@Belladonna12* They would, if they were speaking in a professional context. Or at least they would say it might harm the baby/ we don't know if it does. Hence those are the NHS guidelines, which doctors working for the NHS work with. Doctors err on the side of caution in what they say.

Obviously if their patient asked them they would repeat the guidelines but that doesn't mean that they actually think that a small drink a week would have any effect. As I said, many (or their partners) would have had the occasional drink themselves when pregnant.

[FTEngineerM]

These always make me wince a bit, how anyone who shalt allow a drop of fermented wheat to pass thine lips is a disgusting human and doesn’t deserve to be a mother.. blah blah.. blah. dramatisation

The NHS cannot say how much is safe because that amount differs for every single human being. They can’t have a guideline and then 30 million asterisk, one for each of us women.

The rate of absorption, rate your body metabolises it, how much water your body contains at that moment, the simple fact that people can’t figure out what a unit actually is. There was a thread the other month about just this topic and OP was on it too. Towards the end it came down to someone referring to a ‘drink’ and a ‘sip’ as two different things, when in actual fact, one unit of 15% red wine was 67ml that is arguably a ‘sip’.

They can’t say to someone you can drink one unit per week because one unit will be different for every single alcoholic drink out there; not many would sit there with their calculator and figure out how many ml of their chosen alcoholic drink constitutes a unit. Then once they’ve worked it out, what next, do they go to the bar and ask for a measuring jug to measure out exactly the right amount from their pint/glass. No of course not, that’s ridiculous.

Even then once you’ve got that unit it doesn’t behave the same in every person.

[PassionfruitOrangeGuava]

@Belladonna12

I think I must live in a different world, I went through pregnancy at the same time as seven of my friends (we became friends due to being pregnant simultaneously and living locally) and out of eight of us, one had two small ciders during their pregnancy. The rest were completely abstinent.

DH is a doctor and it wasn't even a question that I'd be teetotal during pregnancy. Mumsnet really surprises me with the normalising of alcohol use during pregnancy. I

[Belladonna12]

[quote PassionfruitOrangeGuava]@Belladonna12

I think I must live in a different world, I went through pregnancy at the same time as seven of my friends (we became friends due to being pregnant simultaneously and living locally) and out of eight of us, one had two small ciders during their pregnancy. The rest were completely abstinent.

DH is a doctor and it wasn't even a question that I'd be teetotal during pregnancy. Mumsnet really surprises me with the normalising of alcohol use during pregnancy. I[/quote]
You obviously live in a small world. The guidelines have only recently changed to complete abstinence. Do you not think before that it was pretty normal to have the occasional glass of wine when pregnant considering the guidance said it was okay? Your mother probably did.

[PassionfruitOrangeGuava]

Only recently? The NHS guidance changed to recommend abstinence in England in 2006. That's fifteen years. My peer group have been having babies within the last five years so I can only speak to that. No idea what my Mother did, but given that I was born in the eighties when the guidance was different it's not relevant.

[LAR96]

Personally for me I haven't touched a drop since I found out I was pregnant but wasn't a big drinker before so easy for me to say. I wouldn't like to take the risk.
However if you feel comfortable and safe having a glass every now and again then why not!
Could you not compromise with just having a drink at home and not whilst you are out to save the hassle?

[Belladonna12]

@PassionfruitOrangeGuava

Only recently? The NHS guidance changed to recommend abstinence in England in 2006. That's fifteen years. My peer group have been having babies within the last five years so I can only speak to that. No idea what my Mother did, but given that I was born in the eighties when the guidance was different it's not relevant.

Surely you know people with children over 15?! What your mother and other people did before 2006 is relevant because most people in the UK were born before then and very few have FAS.

[traumatisednoodle]

Only recently? The NHS guidance changed to recommend abstinence in 2006

I remember this ! Dd is 14.5 I did the test before going on a skiing holiday, so that I knew to only drink a bit. Came back and saw the GP who told me the rules had changed she was shocked I'd been drinking (small glass of wine maybe 3 times that week) I was mortified I hadn't known. Dd was and is fine.

[Stockerton]

Very struck by all the appeals to common sense/wisdom of the ancestors on this thread.

[PassionfruitOrangeGuava]

@traumatisednoodle

Only recently? The NHS guidance changed to recommend abstinence in 2006

I remember this ! Dd is 14.5 I did the test before going on a skiing holiday, so that I knew to only drink a bit. Came back and saw the GP who told me the rules had changed she was shocked I'd been drinking (small glass of wine maybe 3 times that week) I was mortified I hadn't known. Dd was and is fine.

That's bad of the GP to have been shocked that you didn't know the guidance had only just changed! Public health guidance takes time to trickle down to the general public as a whole. The vast, vast majority of people now know the guidance is abstinence, but it took time for that to become common knowledge!

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

It's interesting how we can cling on to some advice from the past, such as that you could get away with moderate drinking; but I never hear anybody (at least in public) declaring that we should continue beating children - or wives for that matter - as it teaches them respect and 'it never did me any harm'.

Never mind mothers drinking during pregnancy, it used to be common to actually give babies gin directly to help them sleep. Good old common-sense advice from the past, eh?

[Libelula21]

I’ve read most the OPs posts but not all the thread, so apologies if this is off at a tangent.

First of all OP, 💐 - it sounds like your baby is both planned and precious to you. Congratulations on your pregnancy and I hope all goes well.

My own pregnancy had fluctuating levels of consumption. It took me a while to realise I was pregnant, and then I mistook a heavy hematoma for an early miscarriage. The pregnancy was planned but unexpected (I’m older), and in many various ways extremely stressful.

I generally drank 2 units per week (often but not always spread over the week), and my DH had no problem with that. It perhaps sounds awful to admit this, but I tried to fine-tune it - I think I gave up alcohol altogether on the weeks that are considered key for the baby’s brain development (early third trimester?).

The reason that there’s uncertainty is that it would be completely unethical to undertake controlled scientific tests in this field. And mothers reporting on their alcohol consumption during pregnancy probably under-report, consciously or unconsciously. And we live in oddly puritan times.

Many, many, many women have a few glasses of wine while pregnant to no ill effect. The key thing is to support a mother, not mother-shame her during pregnancy.

That said, I was born in the 70s, and I had one of those mothers who both smoked and drank during pregnancy. I’m a very long way from FAS, but struggle with impulsivity, organisation, self-restraint, etc… and sometimes I wonder if my mother’s drinking habits had a kind of low, under-the-radar impact on my executive function (I do have a professional career and allegedly a very high IQ, but with many ADHD-type traits). It would be interesting to see a study in this field.

Life has not stopped being stressful, and my drinking habits have slowly crept up, so as the mother of a 4yo, I’m now realising I should be cutting back my units from 30 per week to closer to 5 or 10 per week.

Also, having given birth once, and been surprised by the overwhelming joy of motherhood, I think if I were pregnant again (esp at my ancient age), I would opt to be completely teetotal.

Good luck with it all OP, I’m sure you’ll be fine, and don’t take too much heed of those who love to rush to judgment. 🌺

[Rachelheels]

@Libelula21

I’ve read most the OPs posts but not all the thread, so apologies if this is off at a tangent.

First of all OP, 💐 - it sounds like your baby is both planned and precious to you. Congratulations on your pregnancy and I hope all goes well.

My own pregnancy had fluctuating levels of consumption. It took me a while to realise I was pregnant, and then I mistook a heavy hematoma for an early miscarriage. The pregnancy was planned but unexpected (I’m older), and in many various ways extremely stressful.

I generally drank 2 units per week (often but not always spread over the week), and my DH had no problem with that. It perhaps sounds awful to admit this, but I tried to fine-tune it - I think I gave up alcohol altogether on the weeks that are considered key for the baby’s brain development (early third trimester?).

The reason that there’s uncertainty is that it would be completely unethical to undertake controlled scientific tests in this field. And mothers reporting on their alcohol consumption during pregnancy probably under-report, consciously or unconsciously. And we live in oddly puritan times.

Many, many, many women have a few glasses of wine while pregnant to no ill effect. The key thing is to support a mother, not mother-shame her during pregnancy.

That said, I was born in the 70s, and I had one of those mothers who both smoked and drank during pregnancy. I’m a very long way from FAS, but struggle with impulsivity, organisation, self-restraint, etc… and sometimes I wonder if my mother’s drinking habits had a kind of low, under-the-radar impact on my executive function (I do have a professional career and allegedly a very high IQ, but with many ADHD-type traits). It would be interesting to see a study in this field.

Life has not stopped being stressful, and my drinking habits have slowly crept up, so as the mother of a 4yo, I’m now realising I should be cutting back my units from 30 per week to closer to 5 or 10 per week.

Also, having given birth once, and been surprised by the overwhelming joy of motherhood, I think if I were pregnant again (esp at my ancient age), I would opt to be completely teetotal.

Good luck with it all OP, I’m sure you’ll be fine, and don’t take too much heed of those who love to rush to judgment. 🌺

You’ve just told us to support the mother

Then given us loads of good reasons not to!

Couldn’t make it up

[NigellaSeed]

Well said @Webuiltthiscityonsausageroll

[TaVeryMuchLove]

Out of your entire adult life, 40 weeks is such a short amount of time to abstain from alcohol. Don’t know why anyone doesn’t - unless they actually can’t, in which case there’s a serious problem.

[GhostCurry]

@TaVeryMuchLove

Out of your entire adult life, 40 weeks is such a short amount of time to abstain from alcohol. Don’t know why anyone doesn’t - unless they actually can’t, in which case there’s a serious problem.

Why do people say things like this?

The above is only true if you don’t plan to breastfeed or pump, and only plan to get pregnant once.

The reality is quite different for most mothers.

[TaVeryMuchLove]

People say this because a lot of the time it’s true.

[Feetupteashot]

Yanbu. If he was prepared to go teetotal for pregnancy I might consider it, not otherwise

[Comtesse]

Yanbu. It’s drinking in front of other people and how they might judge this he seems most concerned about. Oh please, what rubbish.

[1jan2021]

I’m on your husband’s side overall, sorry OP. Though I do think he should abstain in a restaurant if you find it hard to go out and eat without an alcoholic drink (I know I did).

[1jan2021]

The NHS cannot say how much is safe because that amount differs for every single human being. They can’t have a guideline and then 30 million asterisk, one for each of us women.

The rate of absorption, rate your body metabolises it, how much water your body contains at that moment, the simple fact that people can’t figure out what a unit actually is. There was a thread the other month about just this topic and OP was on it too. Towards the end it came down to someone referring to a ‘drink’ and a ‘sip’ as two different things, when in actual fact, one unit of 15% red wine was 67ml that is arguably a ‘sip’.

That’s the thing, you can debate all these points until the cows come home and it’s different for every person etc etc. For the avoidance of doubt, it’s best just not to drink for the duration if you can.

[zeroalcohol]

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

The breastfeeding misinformation and denial is just staggering. We need to stop it.

No. What we need to STOP is making FF mothers feel like crap for feeding their babies formula. Here’s the deal - your baby won’t be any happier, smarter, more fulfilled, more successful, healthier or lead a better life than my baby because you breastfed and I couldn’t. There are many, many aspects to good parenting other than breastfeeding. Stop trying to make FF mothers like me feel bad about ourselves.

[youshallnotpass9]

@MintLampShade

My Partner didn't drink through out my pregnancy, as I made the decision not to drink at all, so he quit as well. If he doesn't want you to drink, then he gets to quit as well, you are doing all the work, his job is to support you

My DH supported me too; he cooked, cleaned, fetched me midnight snacks, came to all the appointments etc. But sure as heck I did not expect him to give up beer and wine for 9 months! Or stake..He wasn't the one pregnant. Yes, your body, your decision - but you also made a decision to be responsible for a human being. If you can't exercise self control when there is alcohol in the house, that's a different issue. As long as he's not rubbing it in, why should he / they give up?? Totally and utterly beyond me.

I didn't expect him to, he is a grown arse man who made his own decision.

DS was BF he would also wake up during the night for the first few months when he didn't have to. He made that decision all by himself as well.

However if he made a demand for me to do something, I would expect him to also do it

[PassionfruitOrangeGuava]

[quote zeroalcohol]@Ijustknowitstimetogo

The breastfeeding misinformation and denial is just staggering. We need to stop it.

No. What we need to STOP is making FF mothers feel like crap for feeding their babies formula. Here’s the deal - your baby won’t be any happier, smarter, more fulfilled, more successful, healthier or lead a better life than my baby because you breastfed and I couldn’t. There are many, many aspects to good parenting other than breastfeeding. Stop trying to make FF mothers like me feel bad about ourselves.[/quote]
Bravo 🙌🏻 I breastfed and have nothing against it but when you actually look at the evidence compared to the misinformation and myths often shared about the alleged benefits of breastfeeding it’s very clear that women aren’t given factual information so they can make an informed choice. The push to make everyone bf no matter what their personal circumstances are is so damaging and patronising. We really need to be making it clear that your child isn’t going to be any dumber, fatter, or less attached if you formula feed, to counteract years of misinformation and pressure that has done such a number on maternal wellbeing.

[NatSab]

In my opinion he is being totally reasonable. There is no guarantee that alcohol can't harm your baby and if you're not drinking sufficient amounts to get drunk, other than the taste.. what's the point, what joy is there for you? I am sure you can resist just until the baby is born. After all, you are both parents to the baby. Also, considering you had a miscarriage, why would you take any risk? I would judge someone in public, visibly pregnant drinking alcohol if i'm honest. Sorry if I sound blunt but it's just what I think.