My Pregnancy, My Wine and DH.

[ThymeCrisis]

I’ve namechanged for this but I’ve been around a long time.

Last night DH and I went out for dinner. I’m 6 months pregnant. It was a lovely local Italian place and he ordered a Peroni, I ordered a glass of Prosecco. It was fairly late because he’d watched the first half of the football in the pub after work first, and I’d joined him later, so he’d already had a fair few pints beforehand.

For context, I have been having the odd (125ml) glass of wine or champagne or Prosecco approx once a week (occasionally twice, but I wouldn’t have two drinks on the same night) since I was 16 weeks or so. I felt too ropey before that to contemplate it. Always have the drink with food, always sip very slowly. I was big into wine before I got pregnant and after doing a lot of research (I do have the Emily Oster book but I read lots more research and have come to the conclusion that it’s a negligible ‘risk’ on such a small scale and felt comfortable with my decision. We are talking 1.5 units here.

DH was a bit quiet after I ordered the Prosecco. We had a nice meal and walked home, he then made himself a gin and tonic, and I had a fake version with an M&S seedlip rip off. I asked him if he was ok and why he’d been a bit off. He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking.

I didn’t notice any judgement, and never have, but frankly I wouldn’t care if there was. He also reminded me of the time we had some family round and I had a glass of champagne, and said he’d felt unhappy about it then too.

The reasons he is giving are that he knows of no one who drank in pregnancy (bar our own mothers who drank according to the guidelines in the mid 80’s at the time) and he thinks a big reason I do it is to ‘challenge’ the patriarchy and to go against the rules, not because I truly fancy a glass of wine. This is bullshit but I have ranted before about pregnant woman being infantilised and deemed not capable of critical thought. We don’t really actually know many other friends that have gone through pregnancy either, but he maintains they would have cut out all alcohol. Yes I know what the NHS guidelines say but I’m of the opinion that they say ‘none at all’ because it’s safer than ‘trusting’ women to not underestimate the units in a glass of wine etc or use it as an excuse to binge. Which I would absolutely never do. I know what a unit is.

For what it’s worth I’ve cut down, but not eliminated, caffeine, and I eat soft cheese and Parma ham too, and I have my steak rare or medium-rare.

He is now saying that the drinking is not something he’s comfortable with anymore and just because I have a book that says it’s fine I just have no way to know if we’ve put our unborn son at risk or not, and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop. He can’t handle me ordering a drink in public anymore as it just makes him feel too uncomfortable- it didn’t so much when I didn’t have a bump but he hates the fact that ‘people are judging and looking at us’ now that I do.

I fully expect to get some replies about how he’s right and I am being reckless with my pregnancy, and that it’s only 9 months and why can’t I just cut it out all together, and the answer is, I had weighed up or thought I’d weighed up, whether I truly I had to, and considered myself to be in very safe limits. I like the taste of good wine and the foods it goes with. Yes I’ve tried alcohol free wine and it’s rank, I’d be more likely to cut everything out than drink pretend versions.

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby (for what it’s worth I had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, and I know that was not down to alcohol as I hadn’t drunk at all as I lost it in the first trimester, so it didn’t affect my decision to have the odd drink in this pregnancy) and also that he’s inflicting other peoples judgments on me and just generally making me feel really bad. He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

So hit me with it- am I being unreasonable?

Wrong place to ask OP
MN is very averse anything on pregnancy

I however think yanbu

@Graphista

I'm sorry you're upset op. My question re whether the baby was wanted/planned was because you seem to be struggling making the changes that most make during pregnancy.

I'm honestly concerned about your relationship with alcohol and the way you're approaching pregnancy generally.

I come from a family of addicts inc alcoholics and inc women who continued to drink during pregnancy and that having caused heartache which I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Have you been completely honest with your midwife about how you feel and that you're not following quite a few of the standard guidelines?

I think it's important that you do tell her because it informs the care that you and the baby receive both now and during the Labour and childbirth.

My intent is for you to avoid the heartache that others have gone through as a result of a pregnancy not being managed as well as possible.

I've listened to and supported women who've had to live with at least the possibility and sometimes the knowledge that something they had done/not done in pregnancy had caused a negative outcome.

I want you to enjoy your pregnancy, to be confident you've done all you can to enable a healthy pregnancy, birth and baby, to feel supported by the father and hcps, to be able to enjoy the first weeks/months/years of your child's life without more worry than most have (and believe me it's a worrying time anyway!)

I'm sure you want the same so why not give yourself that gift of true peace of mind?

She had one glass Prosecco which would equate to a very small glass of wine. I really think you need to get a grip....

Wow there are some people going completely OTT on here! Seriously?!

YANBU

@Belladonna12

I am in my 50s and when I was pregnant the guidance was one or two units once or twice a week was okay. Therefore, many people occasionally had a glass of wine to no ill effect. The guidance to drink nothing is very recent and not based on evidence that the occasional glass will do any harm so I would ignore your DH especially as he is only interested in what people think and not on whether it does any harm anyway.

It wasn’t to “no ill effect” the WHO estimates that 1 in 100 babies born have some sort of FASD. The guidance to drink nothing is based on evidence.

Not had time to read through. I think a small glass of Prosecco is not a big deal, but your OH is controlling, that's for sure.

Wow 55% of people voted YABU. I guess feminism is dead 🤦🏼‍♀️. absolutely you are not being unreasonable OP but your DP sounds awful/ a controlling prick. I wouldn’t be able to put up with that. Also it sounds like all he’s really bothered about are other peoples opinions.

Maternal stress has negative effects on the developing foetus. So if you’re constantly worried about whether you’re doing the right thing and stressing about the whole thing-it can be damaging. Eat well, look after yourself and have the odd treat and try to enjoy what can be a lovely time of life.

@Bizawit
Feminism isn’t about risking the physical and mental development your unborn child by using alcohol. Babies are not the patriarchy. Men can be right occasionally, and the DH being right about the harms of alcohol isn’t the patriarchy either.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Bizawit
Feminism isn’t about risking the physical and mental development your unborn child by using alcohol. Babies are not the patriarchy. Men can be right occasionally, and the DH being right about the harms of alcohol isn’t the patriarchy either.[/quote]
Totally agree.

The science says no booze.

Makes no difference how many Mumsnetters say yes booze.

You can tell which ones drank in their pregnancies by the defensive tone of their posts.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Bizawit
Feminism isn’t about risking the physical and mental development your unborn child by using alcohol. Babies are not the patriarchy. Men can be right occasionally, and the DH being right about the harms of alcohol isn’t the patriarchy either.[/quote]
Bodily autonomy for women is absolutely a central premise of feminism. And not being told by a man what you can and cannot do with your own body is absolutely a central premise of feminism. The OP does not consider herself to be taking risks with her baby’s health and development and her opinion is evidence based and reasonable and in any case it’s the only opinion that matters. Her body, her choice. End of.

I rarely drank alcohol when I got pregnant and not whilst pregnant so never really did the research on this. It sounds like DH has now taken any pleasure you might have had in the odd drink so needs to understand the other side of that. It's the perfect time for him to join you in missing out on something which he clearly enjoys - drinking in the pub, in the restaurant and then at home is incredibly selfish under the circumstances. I would make it clear you'll stop when he does.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Bizawit
Feminism isn’t about risking the physical and mental development your unborn child by using alcohol. Babies are not the patriarchy. Men can be right occasionally, and the DH being right about the harms of alcohol isn’t the patriarchy either.[/quote]
Very well said.

Throughout each of my pregnancies my midwife asked if I'd had any alcohol as guidelines say to avoid it.

It's 9 months without the 'joy' of alcohol for the greater good, not forever.

DH being right about the harms of alcohol isn’t the patriarchy either.

No but the simple fact that her DH was fine with it until some arbitrary point then decided otherwise and she must jump and adjust to suit.. is.

Not read the full thread as I can’t be bothered to scroll through 22 pages. But if he wants you to have zero alcohol then it’s only right that he does the same for the rest of the pregnancy.

@FTEngineerM

DH being right about the harms of alcohol isn’t the patriarchy either.

No but the simple fact that her DH was fine with it until some arbitrary point then decided otherwise and she must jump and adjust to suit.. is.

What? So people aren’t allowed to change their minds after further thought and research? And there was no “she must jump and adjust to suit”. He kept his mouth shut until she pressed him on “why he was quiet” and only then did he admit he’s gotten increasingly uncomfortable with her drinking. That’s the opposite of “controlling” and a matriarchy not a patriarchy when the man can only express an opinion if he’s explicitly asked for one and the woman gets the final choice plus can be angry at the man for having a different opinion.

Why don't you tell him seeing as if he was pregnant he would not drink he can go without alcohol for the rest of the pregnancy with you if it's that important to him. However if he has 1 drink during the next few months he can shut up and keep his opinion to himself. Personally I did not touch a drop from finding out I was pregnant but that was my choice. Tell him if he won't agree to it then he gets no day in what you do.

@Bizawit
You lost me at The OP does not consider herself to be taking risks with her baby’s health and development and her opinion is evidence based and reasonable.

I see that facts do not matter to you.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Bizawit
You lost me at The OP does not consider herself to be taking risks with her baby’s health and development and her opinion is evidence based and reasonable.

I see that facts do not matter to you.[/quote]
Whatever @PlanDeRaccordement you are welcome to chose whatever version of “facts” you please . Regardless is it’s OP’s body and she gets to decide what to do with it.

I haven't read the full thread, but I do have a good idea how split we all are in our reactions to your AIBU. It's a sensitive subject and obviously our responses are always coloured by our own experiences. So here's mine:

YANBU. There is an element of truth in what you say about the guidelines being much stricter than necessary and that there's a lack of trust in women at the root of it. (In my view) And in regard to alcohol, there is lots of evidence about the dangers of alcohol to the unborn from mum drinking excessive amounts. There is little to to no evidence about the dangers of mum consuming small amounts of alcohol however. A lack of evidence of the danger doesn't automatically mean it's safe, so you are, as you say, aware that you're taking on a small risk and that risk is one you believe you can live with.

I took a different risk in a different way during pregnancy, after also considering my decision carefully and educating myself, and I accepted that I would have to live with the consequences. I knew many other pregnant women who took considered risks every day, too. We all do it in our own way. Life is all about navigating risks, and pregnancy advice should give you the information to make your decision in full knowledge of the facts. But it is your decision.

And the advice changes. Sometimes even back and forth. And it differs between countries. I was pregnant in three countries and they all have their own lists, too. Also, there's 8 years between my oldest and my youngest and in that short time various things were added to or deleted from the various lists of things to avoid. It's changed even more since my first pregnancy. Back then there was a complete panic about artificial sweeteners. Now sweeteners are back in.

And most of the risks are actually very small on an individual level which means most of the time everyone is fine. Even when mums drank (in moderation) and smoked throughout their pregnancies (as many of my parents' generation did).

I strongly object to anyone who thinks it's reasonable to dictate to pregnant women what they must or must not do. I believe it's your body, so it's your choice. Although that does mean you have to live with the consequences if your choice proves bad for your baby. And obviously your baby has to bear those consequences, too. But I do think it's wholly unreasonable for your DH to claim that if your DC ever had behavioural difficulties, he couldn't know it wasn't due to your drinking. WTF? Stress is also bad for baby, there's plenty of research into the results on that of an unborn, so if he wants to start the parent-blame ping pong before your DC is even born, you can put the ball firmly on his side of the table and point out to him that you won't be able to know if your DC ever had behavioural difficulties, whether it was down to the stress he put on you. (I'm not totally serious about that suggestion, but I think that one was unacceptable and you should tell him so.)

However, that doesn't help you with your husband going forward. I understand that your DH might be feeling worried, both in terms of being judged and you taking a risk. And he has shared his misgivings with you fairly reasonably (with one exception). And honestly (maybe too much so).

If I was in your stead, I'd be tempted to suggest a compromise. Although you have very carefully weighed up the risk, educated yourself and made a considered decision, maybe you would be willing to change that decision because you consider his feelings important on the matter of your child. And he could support you in going teetotal if he did, too. (It's possible you may just decide not to drink in public, and he can do the same when he's with you). I wouldn't demand it, but I do think it's fair to ask him to show you the same consideration that you would be showing him. I wouldn't blackmail him as that just causes resentment, but maybe you can explain to him how it would help if he didn't drink either.

Coz I tell you honestly, I would not have reacted well to my DH criticising me for my alcohol intake while drinking heavily himself (at the intake you describe I would call that heavy).

I hope you'll have a much better day tomorrow, ThymeCrisis and that you'll manage to talk this over with your DH. Good luck.

I don't think either of you are unreasonable in the position you have decided to take on this. On balance, I would probably have come down slight in favour of your DH if he wasn't being a monumental shitting hypocrite about criticising your drinking while happily tucking in to his own.

Any father to be who is concerned that their partner is drinking more than they are comfortable with should immediately offer to stop drinking themselves for the rest of the pregnancy. Not to do this is unbelievably selfish.

The thing is @Bizawit once you choose to continue with a pregnancy you share your body with another human life relying on you to give it the best possible outcome, so the whole her body her choice kinda goes out of the window. You do realise if a midwife or healthcare professional thinks a pregnant woman is risking the health of her unborn they're completely at liberty to raise a safeguarding concern?

@KurtWilde

The thing is *@Bizawit* once you choose to continue with a pregnancy you share your body with another human life relying on you to give it the best possible outcome, so the whole her body her choice kinda goes out of the window. You do realise if a midwife or healthcare professional thinks a pregnant woman is risking the health of her unborn they're completely at liberty to raise a safeguarding concern?

Not really, or are you anti abortion too?

Anyway I’m out because this thread
Is giving me the rage. Like I said, feminism is dead.

Oh dear Bizawit you're one of those.

And if we are talking about the boundaries of law - a woman can absolutely not be prosecuted / held accountable for drinking in pregnancy, even binge drinking excessive amounts constantly, which is known to and does cause serious harm to the fetus.