My Pregnancy, My Wine and DH.

[ThymeCrisis]

I’ve namechanged for this but I’ve been around a long time.

Last night DH and I went out for dinner. I’m 6 months pregnant. It was a lovely local Italian place and he ordered a Peroni, I ordered a glass of Prosecco. It was fairly late because he’d watched the first half of the football in the pub after work first, and I’d joined him later, so he’d already had a fair few pints beforehand.

For context, I have been having the odd (125ml) glass of wine or champagne or Prosecco approx once a week (occasionally twice, but I wouldn’t have two drinks on the same night) since I was 16 weeks or so. I felt too ropey before that to contemplate it. Always have the drink with food, always sip very slowly. I was big into wine before I got pregnant and after doing a lot of research (I do have the Emily Oster book but I read lots more research and have come to the conclusion that it’s a negligible ‘risk’ on such a small scale and felt comfortable with my decision. We are talking 1.5 units here.

DH was a bit quiet after I ordered the Prosecco. We had a nice meal and walked home, he then made himself a gin and tonic, and I had a fake version with an M&S seedlip rip off. I asked him if he was ok and why he’d been a bit off. He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking.

I didn’t notice any judgement, and never have, but frankly I wouldn’t care if there was. He also reminded me of the time we had some family round and I had a glass of champagne, and said he’d felt unhappy about it then too.

The reasons he is giving are that he knows of no one who drank in pregnancy (bar our own mothers who drank according to the guidelines in the mid 80’s at the time) and he thinks a big reason I do it is to ‘challenge’ the patriarchy and to go against the rules, not because I truly fancy a glass of wine. This is bullshit but I have ranted before about pregnant woman being infantilised and deemed not capable of critical thought. We don’t really actually know many other friends that have gone through pregnancy either, but he maintains they would have cut out all alcohol. Yes I know what the NHS guidelines say but I’m of the opinion that they say ‘none at all’ because it’s safer than ‘trusting’ women to not underestimate the units in a glass of wine etc or use it as an excuse to binge. Which I would absolutely never do. I know what a unit is.

For what it’s worth I’ve cut down, but not eliminated, caffeine, and I eat soft cheese and Parma ham too, and I have my steak rare or medium-rare.

He is now saying that the drinking is not something he’s comfortable with anymore and just because I have a book that says it’s fine I just have no way to know if we’ve put our unborn son at risk or not, and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop. He can’t handle me ordering a drink in public anymore as it just makes him feel too uncomfortable- it didn’t so much when I didn’t have a bump but he hates the fact that ‘people are judging and looking at us’ now that I do.

I fully expect to get some replies about how he’s right and I am being reckless with my pregnancy, and that it’s only 9 months and why can’t I just cut it out all together, and the answer is, I had weighed up or thought I’d weighed up, whether I truly I had to, and considered myself to be in very safe limits. I like the taste of good wine and the foods it goes with. Yes I’ve tried alcohol free wine and it’s rank, I’d be more likely to cut everything out than drink pretend versions.

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby (for what it’s worth I had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, and I know that was not down to alcohol as I hadn’t drunk at all as I lost it in the first trimester, so it didn’t affect my decision to have the odd drink in this pregnancy) and also that he’s inflicting other peoples judgments on me and just generally making me feel really bad. He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

So hit me with it- am I being unreasonable?

@SemiFeralDalek

To be fair, drinking "once or twice a week" in pregnancy isn't "the odd drink". You do seem to be minimising what your intake is.

You've decided you're not being unreasonable, like you say, you've read the book and decided your own boundaries with alcohol.

But he's not being unreasonable either and if you were my pregnant partner I'd be pissed off at the frequency with which you were drinking.

This.

And official guidelines in France are for complete abstinence in pregnancy. So "but they do it on the Continent!" is once again an invalid argument.

However, practitioners’ lack of knowledge and practices around advising pregnant women about alcohol presents a challenge in France. Ms Chloé Cogordan, an addiction prevention researcher at Santé publique France, presented findings from a survey of general practitioners. The results indicated that while 82% routinely screen for smoking during pregnancy, only 61% routinely screen for alcohol use. Furthermore, despite the fact that official guidelines in France recommend complete abstinence, 23% reported that they do not provide this recommendation

@Coldwine75

It is a big metaphor for the whole of motherhood, once you become a mother you will have people judging you:

Bottle feeding
sleeping
night time
what they eat
when they walk
when they talk
what they wear

Its non stop from day 1, but clearly already people are judging and your baby isnt here yet, ignore them x

In all fairness, OP literally asked for judgement by making this thread AND posting it in AIBU.

It doesn't justify some of the ridiculous comments on both ends of the scale though. It's easy to be dramatic on an anonymous forum.

@ThymeCrisis

Maybe I do need to toughen up and maybe I’ve been stupid. I know I’ve sober the afternoon in tears at some of the accusations flying around on this thread.

One of the most hurtful is the poster that says I’m not being honest about my drinking and it’s probably more. It fucking isn’t. I’m not a monster. I said earlier anything I say in my own defence will sound like minimising and justifying to those posters who’ve made up their minds already about what a selfish terrible person I am)

Yes, I wanted my baby. Yes, I planned for my baby. How fucking dare you.

A lot of the accusations on this thread must be really unpleasant and hurtful to hear but to be honest it's probably similar to what those around you who see you drinking are thinking. I think that's your husbands point and to be honest I agree with him. Regardless of whether a glass of wine is ok or not in pregnancy, it's so socially unacceptable I'd be really embarrassed if I was your partner.

Why is it socially unacceptable?

YANBU to take "negligible" risks in your own home.
YABU to not take on board the embarrassment your DH feels with you being obviously pregnant and drinking an alcoholic drink in public.

I would definitely look twice if I saw you, but then I am very risk adverse.

@Coldwine75

Why is it socially unacceptable?

Why is smoking when pregnant socially unacceptable?

@ScottishNewbie

YANBU to take "negligible" risks in your own home. YABU to not take on board the embarrassment your DH feels with you being obviously pregnant and drinking an alcoholic drink in public.

I would definitely look twice if I saw you, but then I am very risk adverse.

You obviously have nothing else going on in your life if you look twice at a pregnant woman enjoying a glass. Shocked how judgemental and shallow some people are.

@Coldwine75

Why is it socially unacceptable?

Because there is a chance you're harming the baby by drinking alcohol. Why would you take that risk?

Does he always worry about what other people think a lot?

Does he care more about what other people think than what you want?

I think hes a twat. Just wondered if this is part of a pattern.

Yes but a small amount of alcohol is ok, im leaving this thread now in support with the OP as far too many judgemental horrible women here.

@Coldwine75 So you wouldn't look twice at a heavily pregnant woman with a cigarette in your mouth?

It’s a tricky one as I think probably it’s fair enough for your DH to express concerns about this. It’s your body and I believe you should have the final say, but it’s his baby too and as his partner presumably you’re interested in his views on this.

It sounds though that his primary motivation for raising it is selfish - ie he didn’t mind you drinking when you weren’t obviously pregnant - which is annoying. If he was previously satisfied that it was an acceptable risk then he shouldn’t back track now to make you feel bad.

Ultimately you’ve said he’s taken the joy out of it for you now. If you stop drinking you might feel like he’s unreasonably forced you into that position. But if you carry on you’re unlikely to enjoy it and he may not forgive you. I don’t think you can really carry on OP, regardless of the risks involved.

Fwiw I had a couple of drinks in my first pregnancy and drank small amounts of caffeine throughout (within NHS guidelines). I didn’t drink in my second because I was more anxious generally, and halfway through a study came out which said there was no safe level of caffeine consumption so I gave that up too. It’s a short time in the grand scheme of things.

[quote NeonDreams]@Coldwine75 So you wouldn't look twice at a heavily pregnant woman with a cigarette in your mouth?[/quote]
Well this is about wine but no, as its none of my fucking business !!

Put it this way: apart from alcohol being a toxin and carcinogen that adults can choose to drink whereas a fetus has no choice, there is a reason there is a drinking age. Alcohol is very toxic for growing bodies.

If you wouldn't give a glass of wine to a 5 year old, why would you give it to a fetus?

@Coldwine75

Yes but a small amount of alcohol is ok, im leaving this thread now in support with the OP as far too many judgemental horrible women here.

Nope there is no definite evidence backing that up. Every glass of alcohol could potentially cause harm to the child.

I didn't drink during any of my pregnancies. Because I saw it too be pointless really, one small glass wouldn't do anything for me so I didn't bother. I used to be friends with a girl who got pregnant and insisted on still coming out round town at weekend, and drinking Guinness. I absolutely hated it because even then, 20 years ago people were staring at her because she was obviously pregnant. She used to say Guinness is good for the baby so they can fuck off 🙄
At the end of the day it's your decision but it's your husbands baby too. I do think if he's so concerned though he should give up too in support.

I used to enjoy a glass of wine or two most evenings, but gave it up a month before my IVF, and didn't drink at all during pregnancy. I know the risk is very low, but I didn't want to take any risk.

If you've had a glass of wine weekly (or twice weekly) since week 16, that will be minimum 24 glasses of wine by the time you're 40 weeks. Say 30 glasses of wine, since some weeks you have two.
For me, that's too much wine when pregnant.

You seem to have done a lot of research and justification about it, which implies the wine is very important to you, perhaps too important?

I'd suggest to your partner that you both give it up during the pregnancy.

@Graphista

That book! Urgh! For starters it's written by an economist not a hcp hell she's not even really a scientist!

Frankly I feel it's a book used by some pregnant women to justify not following advice that HAS been assessed and collated and arrived at by research and investigation by scientists and hcps that is for their and their baby's benefit

Regarding alcohol in particular the truth is that because it would be unethical to do human trials on such a study we don't actually know how much - or how little - alcohol affects babies in the womb

What we do know is that FAS is not the only issue caused by alcohol in pregnancy, we also know that there are varying levels of FAS severity. What we do know for definite is that alcohol is harmful and increases the risk not only to the child's lifelong health but to the health and length of the pregnancy, the nature and outcome of the birth and the health of the mother

Personally being honest

Yes I would judge an obviously pregnant mother drinking alcohol in public - I wouldn't say anything cos not worth the hassle and very unlikely to change said mother's attitude, same applies to smoking and other unhealthy behaviours

I lost 3 before dd and dds pregnancy was touch and go and the birth was complicated too.

I stopped taking alcohol, caffeine, soft cheeses and raw egg products etc as soon as I was ttc (and yes I know many aren't ttc and are pregnant before they realise) I also ate as healthily as possible eliminating as many processed foods as I could

I couldn't have lived with myself if anything had gone wrong because of something I had done that was easily avoidable.

I've friends and family that have lost babies and/or had babies who's health has been affected by things like listeria infections or things they ingested or even where they don't know for sure but they didn't know they were pregnant so were drinking/smoking heavily and then mc and the agony they went through even just wondering IF that was why there was a problem I wouldn't wish that heartache on anyone.

There have been a few studies that the results suggest that even a small amount of alcohol at certain stages of pregnancy are harmful to the baby.

I just wouldn't take the risk and tbh I don't understand women who do

It's such a simple thing NOT to do UNLESS you are an addict - and I don't think one glass once a week (and that's if op is being honest - I think pps need to be aware we only have ops word for this - the father of the baby may be saying something because he knows her and knows it's more) Is likely an indication of addiction so in theory based on op being honest should be very easy to give up for just 3 months at this stage.

It's a time of life when you have to prioritise someone else's health above yours to a degree, temporarily, because that baby has no choice, no say in how their health is protected and affected.

You seem very determined to justify continuing to drink, that concerns me and apparently concerns the father too.

It’s easy to say, it’s a lot harder to do.

Unless you're an addict it really shouldn't be a "lot" harder to do.

I didn't find it hard at all and neither did most of my friends and family. I socialised plenty while pregnant I even went on holiday to a part of the world famous for my favourite wine (booked before I was pregnant), to weddings, birthday parties, Christmas parties, NYE party... I had a good time without drinking at all.

My ex also gave up alcohol while I was pregnant with dd and he didn't find it a problem either.

But then, DH also stopped drinking so he was sober if we ever needed to go to hospital.

Yep same - and we did indeed have a few trips and somehow it almost always needed to be at weekends/bank holidays when it would have cost a fortune to get a taxi!

I’ll add that neither of us gave up alcohol when TTC either, which I think is current advice

That's because you are pregnant before you know you are. Some women can be a fair few months along before they know. My mum always had light periods anyway and she didn't know she was pregnant with me until she was nearly 5 month gone.

if I thought that was in any way a possibility

But it is a possibility and you're still not stopping.

last time I checked I enjoying wine didn’t automatically equate to alcoholism

It's hard to assess. It's not only amounts it's the relationship you have with alcohol which is a factor in addiction

and I think you are underplaying your drinking a little bit.

I get a strong sense we're not getting the whole truth about how much and how often op is drinking. Something about the way they're coming across can't put my finger on it

but I don't think it's fair to pretend it's an absurd concept or that women who don't drink at all are ignorant, naive, blind little sheep who can't think for themselves.

Absolutely - that's quite insulting but it suits ops narrative doesn't it?

I was an hcp, I know how to read the research and it was because of this that even though it wasn't the nhs advice at the time I chose to eliminate caffeine and certain food additives myself

My mum smoked and I was born under expected weight and now I'm asthmatic.

Same here.

@CynsterBitch just because you were apparently unaffected by your mothers smoking doesn't make the wealth of research on this wrong

But I know lots of women who totally cut out caffeine too or won’t take painkillers. Why, If that’s in fact totally fine and no risk at all?

There's a LOT of research on the harm of caffeine in pregnancy and there was over 20 years ago when I was pregnant with dd too that's not unfounded

Regarding painkillers that's a cost/benefit analysis as pain is not something someone should be in unless absolutely necessary and again there's been a LOT of research on which painkillers and how much

There’ve been maybe three weeks when I’ve had a second drink at some point on a different day, at a funeral for example and at a family reunion

This feels like more minimising and more justification.

I also feel the Dhs comment about harm to the baby was likely him trying to get through to op in frustration

OP has done her research

No she hasn't. She has used one book by a non scientist to justify ignoring the research and advice by a world full of other scientists and hcps

Also, you say you take the small risk. Small risk of a drink, small risk of rare stake, small risk of Parma ham. Seems to be a lot to small risks there. doesn't it?

Op genuine question - did you want this pregnancy? Was it planned?

Blunt opinion? I think this much determination to carrying on drinking alcohol smacks of dependency.

Yea the more pp posts the more I think so too

Ok fine- I think of it as occasional at least compared to previous pregnancy

Yea that suggests you may have been drinking more than is healthy before the pregnancy which means you may have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol anyway

But 1.5 units of alcohol doesn’t constitute drunk driving in England

Yea I think you have an inappropriate sense of what effects alcohol has on the body, very much minimising and underestimating those effects.

I'm in Scotland wheee the drink driving rules are effectively you don't drink and drive at all. Because even a small amount of alcohol does impair reactions, eyesight etc

How confident are you that she is drinking at a level that does not risk permanently damaging her child?

Agreed. I'm certainly not.

I totally disagree. I've actually found the discussion very much swayed towards the normalisation of alcohol dependency on Mumsnet tbh.

Agree with this too I've certainly been flamed for my comments on this on more than one occasion.

But that's usually when the pregnant mother is genuinely only having an occasional small drink which op is not. Op is drinking regularly and tbh at this stage I'm not totally convinced it's only a small glass or only one glass at a time

The regularity is certainly concerning to say the least

Excellent post!!

I think you're out of order. You're drinking at least once if not twice a week. Why do you need to drink at all.? You can't survive without alcohol for 9m? If you can't then I think you have a problem.

It's simply not worth the risk IMO

[quote SadieCow]@CutieBear she said "small joy" of having a glass of wine, not it's her only joy?

Do you have comprehension issues?

I can't believe you've quoted what OP said, when it's not what was said!

[/quote]
Wow so you have issue with me saying one instead of small, but you don’t have any issues with a pregnant woman relying on alcohol every single week? An occasional drink is having alcohol at special events. It’s a regular drink if you need a few glasses of wine every single week.

The OP has said this thread has made her cry. Yet people are still piling on! Just stop.

This thread is exactly what's wrong with MN. So many people can't say they disagree with the OP in a reasonable manner.

Shame on some of the posters here. Shame on you.

Sometimes it seems that women’s biggest enemy is women themselves.