My Pregnancy, My Wine and DH.

[ThymeCrisis]

I’ve namechanged for this but I’ve been around a long time.

Last night DH and I went out for dinner. I’m 6 months pregnant. It was a lovely local Italian place and he ordered a Peroni, I ordered a glass of Prosecco. It was fairly late because he’d watched the first half of the football in the pub after work first, and I’d joined him later, so he’d already had a fair few pints beforehand.

For context, I have been having the odd (125ml) glass of wine or champagne or Prosecco approx once a week (occasionally twice, but I wouldn’t have two drinks on the same night) since I was 16 weeks or so. I felt too ropey before that to contemplate it. Always have the drink with food, always sip very slowly. I was big into wine before I got pregnant and after doing a lot of research (I do have the Emily Oster book but I read lots more research and have come to the conclusion that it’s a negligible ‘risk’ on such a small scale and felt comfortable with my decision. We are talking 1.5 units here.

DH was a bit quiet after I ordered the Prosecco. We had a nice meal and walked home, he then made himself a gin and tonic, and I had a fake version with an M&S seedlip rip off. I asked him if he was ok and why he’d been a bit off. He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking.

I didn’t notice any judgement, and never have, but frankly I wouldn’t care if there was. He also reminded me of the time we had some family round and I had a glass of champagne, and said he’d felt unhappy about it then too.

The reasons he is giving are that he knows of no one who drank in pregnancy (bar our own mothers who drank according to the guidelines in the mid 80’s at the time) and he thinks a big reason I do it is to ‘challenge’ the patriarchy and to go against the rules, not because I truly fancy a glass of wine. This is bullshit but I have ranted before about pregnant woman being infantilised and deemed not capable of critical thought. We don’t really actually know many other friends that have gone through pregnancy either, but he maintains they would have cut out all alcohol. Yes I know what the NHS guidelines say but I’m of the opinion that they say ‘none at all’ because it’s safer than ‘trusting’ women to not underestimate the units in a glass of wine etc or use it as an excuse to binge. Which I would absolutely never do. I know what a unit is.

For what it’s worth I’ve cut down, but not eliminated, caffeine, and I eat soft cheese and Parma ham too, and I have my steak rare or medium-rare.

He is now saying that the drinking is not something he’s comfortable with anymore and just because I have a book that says it’s fine I just have no way to know if we’ve put our unborn son at risk or not, and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop. He can’t handle me ordering a drink in public anymore as it just makes him feel too uncomfortable- it didn’t so much when I didn’t have a bump but he hates the fact that ‘people are judging and looking at us’ now that I do.

I fully expect to get some replies about how he’s right and I am being reckless with my pregnancy, and that it’s only 9 months and why can’t I just cut it out all together, and the answer is, I had weighed up or thought I’d weighed up, whether I truly I had to, and considered myself to be in very safe limits. I like the taste of good wine and the foods it goes with. Yes I’ve tried alcohol free wine and it’s rank, I’d be more likely to cut everything out than drink pretend versions.

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby (for what it’s worth I had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, and I know that was not down to alcohol as I hadn’t drunk at all as I lost it in the first trimester, so it didn’t affect my decision to have the odd drink in this pregnancy) and also that he’s inflicting other peoples judgments on me and just generally making me feel really bad. He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

So hit me with it- am I being unreasonable?

I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not want you to drink. He's allowed to have that conversation with you, but it is your body

@RainatMoonlight It's also the child's body that'd be effected, which as their father it's reasonable for him to have some input on.

when it is clearly about what other people think, I think that is silly.

If someone that you are with is doing something that everyone around to see it will think is not ok, I think a lot of us would be uncomfortable with that, and that's not unreasonable.

To he honest OP, given the strength of his feeling, I would stop drinking but also require him to do so as well. And not just when you are together, but full stop. To show solidarity.

I think the occasional drink is ok, wouldn’t myself but have friends who did for special occasions and no issues. I absolutely would not have soft cheese though, I think that’s a strange choice to make to be honest.

I prob drunk once during each preg - one small glass of champagne on NYE as a toast.
I don’t really understand the need to drink regularly (a few times a week is regular and everyone underestimates their drinking) when pregnant - it is only 9 months and it is a toxin.
Your husband’s reasons are spurious, but you need to not drink for sake of baby, not husband.

MN is a bit weird on this topic tbh, all the available evidence suggests that the occasional small glass is fine, and even my (female) GP told me firmly that it was! I have never seen anyone in public judging a pregnant woman having a small glass of Prosecco. But it's judgy-pants all round on MN on this subject so don't expect any evidence-based analysis of the actual risk.

I'd be alarmed at your DP feeling that way about "embarrassing" him, though; it suggests someone who wants to control what you do in ways that might go beyond just being a parent to the baby, and into what he thinks you look like to other people. That's a bit worrying to me. Does he share your views on things like breastfeeding, discipline, and so on?

And tbh I couldn’t have cared less if husband drank - he’s not carrying the baby!!
Also I didn’t eat soft cheese etc. I may have occasionally had smoked salmon.

my son has FAS. I work as a midwife specialising in dependancy issues. I wouldnt be at all concerned about your drinking.

as for those saying its childish to ask him not to drink...its not childish its asking for support which is really important.

"He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking."

If my husband had said that to me, I think my respect for him would be just that little bit less .

His 'come to terms' comment implies that actually he's not happy with it at all, but he'd chosen not to say anything, and I'd lose respect for him not being honest with me and raising the subject before. Alternatively, I'd think he was rewriting history and he's always been fine with it but is swayed by what he thinks people think of him, 'letting' his wife drink whilst pregnant' - and I'd lose respect for him for that.

And then there's the sheer hypocrisy of his stated position that it only mattered when you were visibly pregnant and not before. He said nothing to you beforehand. But now, "he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking." So he's not worried about the safety of the baby, or he'd have said something the very first time you had a glass in your hand. No, what he is worried about is what Other People think. Total strangers. And I'm guessing, but I think I'm right here - he's worried what total stranger think of him.

"He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking."
That's a shitty thing to say. Getting his excuses in early.

"... and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop."
Well he can start demonstrating that right now. Show a bit of solidarity and if it's so damned important to him then it's important enough for him to stop too. Will he?

The guidance I have read is one to two small glasses a wine a week is very unlikely to cause any harm. A lot of decisions in pregnancy involve calculating risks.
I can of course understand your husbands concerns as he's just thinking about his child.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask him to stop drinking for the remainder of the pregnancy if you do stop.

I’m also 6 months and personally not drinking as I’ve had two glasses of champagne (separate occasions) and each time I’ve felt hungover the next day so decided not for me. However I kno slots of people who’ve been drinking throughout (ie my own mother, my partners mother who keeps encouraging me to drink more so long as it’s good wine 😂 and pretty much all of my schoolmates mothers, who also used to smoke in pregnancy by the way) and no behavioural issues that I’ve noticed.

I completely agree on all your points and I think totally legit for you to drink if you think it’s safe and you feel your body is not giving you alarm bells like mine.

I also think it would be totally legit for your husband to feel that way about alcohol, IF he had not been drinking like a sponge.

I think if he wants you to completely give up (and it won’t be ‘9 months only’ as if you’re breastfeeding he is going to start about the baby once you pop) he should be abstemious for however long he’s asking you not to drink. Totes legit.

My cousin when his wife was pregnant completely gave up booze and also mirrored her diet with no raw eggs, soft cheese etc.

You’re already having to carry the child, restricting his diet in solidarity makes total sense to me!

OP you haven't posted since you said you felt attacked. I hope you are ok. MN can be brutal. However, when you post something controversial you are going to get a vast range of replies. Whilst I agree with your husband, I think the mention of FAS throughout the later half of the thread isn't helpful as I don't think your consumption is enough for that.

I think it's fair to debate the science on this (though I'm always sceptical of people posting saying they've done the "research" - funny how the research always ends up agreeing with their opinion before they start out researching) but I really hope people realise that anecdotes and personal experiences don't count for much. I know a 90-year-old who has smoke since she was a teenager - doesn't prove smoking isn't harmful.

I'm all seriousness I would evaluate your relationship with alcohol. You state @ThymeCrisis

The truth is we don’t know what is a truly safe level of alcohol during pregnancy- in all likelihood the “safe level” is different for each woman and not easily predictable. I also doubt that one unit a week is likely to fall within “dangerous” range for most women.

I personally chose not to drink because I genuinely couldn’t see the point of taking an easily avoidable risk. I like drinking good wine and the odd gin or whiskey, but I just didn’t want to take a risk as I’d always wonder “what if...?” If there was an issue. You have chosen differently, and that is your right. It is a small risk and even if there is a problem further down the line (I sincerely hope not and am not suggesting there will be) it’s probably not going to be easy to say what is the underlying cause was anyway.

But, I can see why your DH may be uncomfortable and he is as entitled to his opinion that it is a very small risk, but one he does not think it worth taking, as you are that the risk is negligible and you feel happy to have a drink when you wish to. Neither of you are wrong, both are entitled to hold differing opinion.

He also disliked that people may judge your choice, which is hardly unusual- though not a very good reason to do anything (or not, as in this case). He can’t force you to do anything- and i don’t think he has actually done so (happy to be corrected)- just stated his opinion, which seems reasonable.

What you do depends, I would say on whether you feel strongly about drinking vs how strongly he feels about the fact that you drink. Do you feel strongly enough that you want to continue doing something that you know your husband dislikes because of the (extremely small) risk you are placing your unborn baby at? If so, then continue. If not, then stop. If you do, it would not be unreasonable to ask him not to drink either.

I've read studies that say the amount of alcohol needed to trigger FAS vary from person to person. Some need very little, some need more.

When I finally got pregnant, after such time and trying, I decided that I wanted to be able to say I'd done everything I could to ensure a healthy baby. You have decided the risks to your child are worth it to you. He doesn't agree with the risks and seems like the judgement of others has triggered it.

Sorry too quick ...

"I just feel he’s taken away any small joy I had in a nice small glass of something at the end of a long working week- obviously something he’s still free to enjoy. It’s completely taken away any pleasure I had in it."

Really you don't need wine for joy

I would urge you to cut down on alcohol for your own sake. Research shows that regular alcohol consumption even at a low level has deleterious health effects, particularly for women. Maybe see if you can reduce to a glass every other week?

NHS guidelines are definitive. Some studies might say otherwise, but the reality is we can't know for sure and ideally it's not worth the risk.

I think YABU. For many of the reasons other PP have posted.

I fully support bodily autonomy but when you become pregnant and keep your baby you enter into an agreement of responsibility to that child that you'll do what you can to keep them safe and I don't think you are really doing everything you can to keep them safe.

You dont know that the alcohol you're consuming isn't harmful.

But I suspect you've come here just to read the posts that validate you rather than actually taking on board the concern of others.

I think you're both being unreasonable, but not equally so. It's not just your baby, and I think he's speaking out of concern here, even if he put it quite clumsily and in a way that introduced an element of shaming. That's the extent of your unreasonableness.

I think you are right to be annoyed that he has brought up what others are thinking as a reason to stop drinking. You are both going to find adjusting to parenthood very difficult if concern about other people's judgement is important to either one of you, and also if either of you or both of you use alcohol as a means of destressing and winding down. I would suggest you both need to assess your relationship with alcohol as a way of preparing for parenthood and as a way of practicing looking after each other, which is important when a baby arrives. He needs to get into the habit of looking after your wellbeing or you will find the relationship changing in ways that are not happy once the baby arrives.

I think he's being hypocritical and not at all supportive to indulge so freely while asking you to hold back. By not offering to stop drinking himself, he is sort of saying that this pregnancy thing is your business - but at the same time making it his business by criticising the drinking. You are both preparing for parenthood here. He needs to demonstrate that he takes preparation seriously or you are going to feel that your fears about losing your personhood are being validated.

He needs to start listening to you on that point, as it causes women a lot of anguish both in pregnancy and as new mothers. Finding your new identity as a mother and embracing it needs the full support of a husband who truly gets what you are talking about and what you are going through. For him to continue behaving as before - e.g continuing to drink with mates - and not to have the great change in your lives impact him one bit is not on.

He needs to start exploring with you the emotional and 'spiritual' impact (for want of a better word) on both of you of adding a baby to your relationship, or you will find resentment beginning to corrode the relationship.

This will happen if he continues to have his freedom while you are expected to knuckle down to mothering and domesticity, and if he takes it upon himself to hold you to standards you are expected to uphold as a mother, without your agreement that he has that right.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of drinking any alcohol during pregnancy.
Its only 9 months from a lifetime.
I really don't get it. There are other nice pleasures that you could have.
Each to their own though. For me, I would worry about every sip. That alone would make the experience not enjoyable.

I don't think the odd alcoholic drink will do any harm to the baby but. if he's adamant that he thinks you shouldn't drink at all while pregnant, I think he should offer to abstain too.

I lost a chunk of my post - here's what disappeared, as far as I can remember.

• I do think that the risks you have apparently unilaterally decided upon need to be discussed. I also think you need to take on board the idea that he has a right to be concerned and to express concern.

• The habit of discussing things reasonably needs to be developed. No more ranting. That doesn't invite a contribution from the other person unless he feels very strongly, and that can develop into a fight. It also hides your own personal feelings because you are engaging in an impersonal model of discourse (pregnant women/the patriarchy) instead of being open and honest with your husband about your own specific, personal fears. Share your personal feelings honestly with your husband - feelings about childbirth, feelings about being seen as a mother as opposed to a woman, feelings about being treated as a mother as opposed to a life partner.

• You are going to be discussing sleep strategies, introduction of solids, safety around the home, level of supervision of crawling babies, supervision of bath time, time away from the baby, what the in laws can and can't do, whether and how toddlers can be punished for misdeeds - a multitude of discussions, and they need to be undertaken calmly and in a spirit of mutual respect. There will also be a multitude of advice books, advice programmes, and advice from friends and relatives and even complete strangers, on top of unspoken assumptions you both have. You need to get into the habit of discussing everything respectfully and with open minds and hearts.

I agree, everyone needs to make their own choice. The likelihood is your baby will be fine but alcohol is a teratogen and can lead to birth defects. Imagine if your child has a congenital abnormality you will question again and again if alcohol played a part.
You child will have to life with it for their entire life.
My daughter was born with a congenital abnormality and I question again and again if the single glass of Prosecco I had during pregnancy played a part.

OP I am completely on your side, I had a drink a bit less frequently than you when pregnant but purely because I didn't feel like it, not because I thought there was any great harm in it. I also pretty much ate what I liked, I think we have turned preganancy and early chidhood into a time of terrible anxiety and competitiveness as to who is the 'best' carrier then raiser of children. And what good has it done? I see no evidence of the modern offspring being some kind of super-race of amazingly healthy or well-balanced children, quite the opposite if anything. We've made them as neurotic as ourselves. I think people need to chill out, relax, moderate our habits without becoming a slave to the latest orthodoxy and enjoy our pregnancies and our children. Enjoy your bubbles and encourage your husband to worry less about what other people think, that way madness lies

It sounds like you are addicted to alcohol, even if you can get by with small-ish quantities. The vast majority of women do give up for pregnancy because any risk of fetal alcohol syndrome is too much. It's about the baby's whole future vs. you giving up wine for 9 months.

Fetal alcohol syndrome leads to physical, developmental and psychological symptoms and affects a person for their whole life.