My Pregnancy, My Wine and DH.

[ThymeCrisis]

I’ve namechanged for this but I’ve been around a long time.

Last night DH and I went out for dinner. I’m 6 months pregnant. It was a lovely local Italian place and he ordered a Peroni, I ordered a glass of Prosecco. It was fairly late because he’d watched the first half of the football in the pub after work first, and I’d joined him later, so he’d already had a fair few pints beforehand.

For context, I have been having the odd (125ml) glass of wine or champagne or Prosecco approx once a week (occasionally twice, but I wouldn’t have two drinks on the same night) since I was 16 weeks or so. I felt too ropey before that to contemplate it. Always have the drink with food, always sip very slowly. I was big into wine before I got pregnant and after doing a lot of research (I do have the Emily Oster book but I read lots more research and have come to the conclusion that it’s a negligible ‘risk’ on such a small scale and felt comfortable with my decision. We are talking 1.5 units here.

DH was a bit quiet after I ordered the Prosecco. We had a nice meal and walked home, he then made himself a gin and tonic, and I had a fake version with an M&S seedlip rip off. I asked him if he was ok and why he’d been a bit off. He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking.

I didn’t notice any judgement, and never have, but frankly I wouldn’t care if there was. He also reminded me of the time we had some family round and I had a glass of champagne, and said he’d felt unhappy about it then too.

The reasons he is giving are that he knows of no one who drank in pregnancy (bar our own mothers who drank according to the guidelines in the mid 80’s at the time) and he thinks a big reason I do it is to ‘challenge’ the patriarchy and to go against the rules, not because I truly fancy a glass of wine. This is bullshit but I have ranted before about pregnant woman being infantilised and deemed not capable of critical thought. We don’t really actually know many other friends that have gone through pregnancy either, but he maintains they would have cut out all alcohol. Yes I know what the NHS guidelines say but I’m of the opinion that they say ‘none at all’ because it’s safer than ‘trusting’ women to not underestimate the units in a glass of wine etc or use it as an excuse to binge. Which I would absolutely never do. I know what a unit is.

For what it’s worth I’ve cut down, but not eliminated, caffeine, and I eat soft cheese and Parma ham too, and I have my steak rare or medium-rare.

He is now saying that the drinking is not something he’s comfortable with anymore and just because I have a book that says it’s fine I just have no way to know if we’ve put our unborn son at risk or not, and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop. He can’t handle me ordering a drink in public anymore as it just makes him feel too uncomfortable- it didn’t so much when I didn’t have a bump but he hates the fact that ‘people are judging and looking at us’ now that I do.

I fully expect to get some replies about how he’s right and I am being reckless with my pregnancy, and that it’s only 9 months and why can’t I just cut it out all together, and the answer is, I had weighed up or thought I’d weighed up, whether I truly I had to, and considered myself to be in very safe limits. I like the taste of good wine and the foods it goes with. Yes I’ve tried alcohol free wine and it’s rank, I’d be more likely to cut everything out than drink pretend versions.

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby (for what it’s worth I had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, and I know that was not down to alcohol as I hadn’t drunk at all as I lost it in the first trimester, so it didn’t affect my decision to have the odd drink in this pregnancy) and also that he’s inflicting other peoples judgments on me and just generally making me feel really bad. He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

So hit me with it- am I being unreasonable?

Considerable evidence exists that maternal drinking in pregnancy can cause harm to a developing fetus. That doesn't mean that every baby will be negatively affected by a mother's moderate drinking. However, the risk absolutely exists, and no amount of alcohol has been shown to be completely safe.

You could smoke a few cigarettes a week during pregnancy and the baby may show no ill effects. But why would anyone risk it? Similarly, drinking regularly during pregnancy may not affect the baby. But why take the risk? The correlations to potential harm outweigh the pleasure of drinking IMO.

Op we all make judgments and risk assessments, no one has the right to dictate when you can or cannot consume at any time.

Last week I ordered a medium rare steak. I'm 9 months pregnant. The waitress asked me three times if I was sure that's how I wanted it. Infuriating.

Alcohol is a drug. Any drug use that is similarly proven to have risk of harm and zero benefits would be within a fathers rights to express an opinion about.

After he’s necked several beers and a G&T? Right...

Dear god the sanctimony on this thread (and from OPs husband) is bloody outrageous.

I've had a couple of drinks in both my previous pregnancy and this one, small champagne on my wedding day for example so I'm fairly relaxed about some alcohol in pregnancy... However I think once or twice a week makes me uncomfortable so I tend to agree with your DH there. A friend drank a glass of wine every week through her pregnancy and unfortunately had serious complications afterwards for her and baby, including a mini stroke where she lost her vision partially. I'm NOT saying this is linked OR that it's going to happen to you but she has no way of knowing if that's linked and will always feel guilty (irrationally maybe) but that's motherhood I guess.
I would also respect your DH in his opinion even if he's not expressing it in a way you want to hear.

@AngeloMysterioso

Alcohol is a drug. Any drug use that is similarly proven to have risk of harm and zero benefits would be within a fathers rights to express an opinion about.

After he’s necked several beers and a G&T? Right...

Dear god the sanctimony on this thread (and from OPs husband) is bloody outrageous.

But he's not pregnant! And let's not forget, she asked him why he was "quiet"

When anyone says they've "done their research" ( looked at the internet and found a few sites to back up their opinion which is normally unpopular) I can't help but eyeroll a bit.

I agree with this point. So many people like to toss the word "research" around, as though reading a few websites somehow equates to proper scientific investigation or actual peer-reviewed studies.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Blaming a man for his low sperm count doesn't compare to blaming a woman for harming her baby by chosing to drink/smoke/partake in habits known to put her baby at risk.

The point is that men NEVER get blamed. The original point was in the context of women's bodies being policed. Constantly. (vs some posters who said that this wasn't the case).

And sure, you could argue infertility is different to potentially harming a foetus, but it doesn't change the fact that even female infertility is usually blamed on the woman.

@Sweak

The problem with the 'your body, your choice' argument is where does it end? I mean by that argument you could do heroin whilst pregnant (not saying the OPs drinks are in any way as dangerous or irresponsible to be clear). The problem with that argument is you are sharing your body for a few months so it's not just 'your body'.

There seems to be a lot of posters insinuating pregnancy advise is 'controlling women.' I just find it a bs argument. Not everything is about patriarchy.

At the levels the op is drinking I'm sure the risk is minimal, but that's not to say there are no risks at all. It's not controlling women it's facts.

I agree. And you know, it’s not compulsory to get pregnant. You don’t have to do it, if you prefer not to have to modify your behaviour.

I was going to say YANBU until you mentioned the caffeine and soft cheese. YABU for that, disability from soft cheese is severe and lifelong from one dose. Easy to stick within the caffeine limits and not eat soft cheese, one glass of wine a week is ok.
If he wants you to not drink out the house then he doesn’t drink either.

@AngeloMysterioso

Alcohol is a drug. Any drug use that is similarly proven to have risk of harm and zero benefits would be within a fathers rights to express an opinion about.

After he’s necked several beers and a G&T? Right...

Dear god the sanctimony on this thread (and from OPs husband) is bloody outrageous.

Totally agree. You'd swear the OP was on crack the way some posters carry on.

@Daphnise

It's not other people's reaction, it is the risk to the unborn child.

You have made a decision with a very long justification but it seems to me the reality is that you just cannot stop drinking alcohol.

I presume when the child is born you will return being "big into wine" (I think that's the way you put it in the OP). This sounds very much like an alcoholic.

So yes YABU.

FFS. It's possible to enjoy alcohol without being addicted to it.

Yes, but the fact that she concedes she's a big drinker, combined with the fact that she's rowed with her husband about her continuing to regularly drink during pregnancy, and the fact that she's then started a thread here about it, is apt to raise suspicion that there could be a problem here. And that would, unquestionably, be harmful to a child once it is born. Only the OP truly knows what her consumption is like.

Alcohol can absolutely harm babies. You are not harming your baby with the amount you are drinking. No it’s not the same as giving a newborn a drink of wine. (For what it’s worth, I’m also medically trained).

Whether you are 'medically trained' or not, you can't say that the OP isn't harming her baby because nobody knows that. And of course it's the same as giving alochol to a newborn baby. Why on earth is it moral to be ok with alcohol that goes into your baby's bloodstream via the placenta and not via their mouth? It's the same baby and the same drug. If anything it's LESS moral to drink in pregnancy as the baby is developing faster than after it's born.

No Sermons from me, OP, just carry on, nothing you are doing is unreasonable.
In a few weeks time he will have far more to think about.
Best Wishes.

Joke: For best benefit to baby. Perhaps he should have abstained at time of conception.

If we did a study into how likely people are to drink if others around them were drinking - what do you think we would find? I expect people would be more likely to do this if they see others they mix with a lot doing it. That’s why we don’t want kids shows to have cigarette or junk food ads. I think that’s why some Christian denominations might not drink - as at some periods some parts of the congregation had alcohol issues. Therefore, if the DH would like to encourage his wife not to drink, perhaps it may help if he also stopped, to give her the best chance of doing this. Not that he should get to dictate what she does, but if he was sincere and loving he should be trying to do this (if he believes she should avoid alcohol completely). He should understand that pregnancy has a far greater risk on his wife’s health, mental health and well-being than his own.

" I was amused to read an article in The Times recently about the deterioration in sperm quality in which, believe it or not, men were not blamed a single time..... "

"Typical "
It's not comparable. The risk with low sperm count is that pregnancy does not occur at all, which given the world is over-populated, is a far less negative outcome than brain and body deformities.

Err, did you not realise @thedancingbear that the quality of sperm & age of the father is linked to behavioural disorders?

I genuinely don't understand why people disagreeing with the OP are being called sanctimonious? How is it sanctimonious to eliminate a known risk to an unborn child? I'd like to see a graph showing correlation between anti-vaxxers and pregnancy drinkers since these categories of people have done so much "research"

@awaketoosoon

" I was amused to read an article in The Times recently about the deterioration in sperm quality in which, believe it or not, men were not blamed a single time..... "

"Typical "
It's not comparable. The risk with low sperm count is that pregnancy does not occur at all, which given the world is over-populated, is a far less negative outcome than brain and body deformities.

Err, did you not realise @thedancingbear that the quality of sperm & age of the father is linked to behavioural disorders?

Yes, there is one single study that suggests this is the case, if you are a mouse:

www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/16/stress-fathers-behaviour-offspring-altering-sperm-micrornas

Off you trot

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby

You are potentially causing harm to the baby.

People will look askance at a pregnant woman drinking, as everyone knows the official guidelines are that pregnant women shouldn't drink at all as any amount could potentially harm the child.

He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

He's right, that's a scientific fact, it could do some harm, even though it wouldn't be full Fetal Alcohol Syndrome from just a drink or two a week probably.

To be fair I would probably do the same as you as I like a drink, but most people manage not to drink during pregnancy now I think, because they know any amount could harm the baby, and definitely won't help it.

@ThymeCrisis Can't you think of the baby and prioritize it's health? It's only 3 months now. I would feel the same though.

I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not want you to drink. He's allowed to have that conversation with you, but it is your body, so you are also fine to tell him what you think too. However, it seems he is more upset about people's opinions. If it had been about how he felt about you doing it at home, I'd say maybe you should talk frankly with him about it and try to reach a compromise, but when it is clearly about what other people think, I think that is silly.

You can do what you'd like, I suppose, OP.

You've decided you're happy to take risks: soft cheese, rare steak, processed meats, caffeine, two glasses of wine per week.

Personally, I don't think the risk is worth the reward. And if I were your partner, I would be concerned about the approach you have to risk/reward.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/time.com/5754177/autism-sperm-genetic-mutations/%3famp=true

@thedancingbear I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable so off you trot 👋

I think a lot of people, like a PP said, would maybe think it ok to possibly have a glass for a birthday, xmas or something.

You asked if you are unreasonable or not…. I’m sorry you lost me at drinking during pregnancy…yes you are totally unreasonable.

To add some context - I have two children. We adopted my first - they have fetal alcohol syndrome - they have been impact greatly by this - educationally not behavioural. Our second child is our birth child - no alcohol was consumed and he has no issues that cause us any concerns or him difficulties.

It’s 9 months of your life! I would not and could not take the risk.
I’ve not even considered your partner in this - this is your behaviour and the choice you are making.
When baby arrives you will spend a lot of it’s early years ( I hope) tailoring your lifestyle to accommodate their needs. It’s called being a parent.

Given that women feel judged by everyone whether they are pregnant or not I don't see why it's different if a man is feeling judged. He's allowed his feelings too. Lots of people care way too much about what other people think of them.

As for him not being allowed an opinion because he's not pregnant, that's a ridiculous notion. Within a normal, loving relationship he's entitled to air his views about his baby even if he doesn't get the final say or his opinions aren't correct.

The other thing is that people who smoke, or drink, or have other addictions tend to minimise how much they have. If they actually wrote down everything truthfully it would almost always be more.

You are perfectly reasonable to have read up and made your own mind up about drinking in pregnancy but you are unreasonable not to have had proper communication with your dh about it since he appears to have changed his mind. Your posts absolutely come across as you trying to justify your decision. If you truly didn't care about any judgement then you wouldn't be so upset about it.