My Pregnancy, My Wine and DH.

[ThymeCrisis]

I’ve namechanged for this but I’ve been around a long time.

Last night DH and I went out for dinner. I’m 6 months pregnant. It was a lovely local Italian place and he ordered a Peroni, I ordered a glass of Prosecco. It was fairly late because he’d watched the first half of the football in the pub after work first, and I’d joined him later, so he’d already had a fair few pints beforehand.

For context, I have been having the odd (125ml) glass of wine or champagne or Prosecco approx once a week (occasionally twice, but I wouldn’t have two drinks on the same night) since I was 16 weeks or so. I felt too ropey before that to contemplate it. Always have the drink with food, always sip very slowly. I was big into wine before I got pregnant and after doing a lot of research (I do have the Emily Oster book but I read lots more research and have come to the conclusion that it’s a negligible ‘risk’ on such a small scale and felt comfortable with my decision. We are talking 1.5 units here.

DH was a bit quiet after I ordered the Prosecco. We had a nice meal and walked home, he then made himself a gin and tonic, and I had a fake version with an M&S seedlip rip off. I asked him if he was ok and why he’d been a bit off. He then said he had ‘come to terms’ with me having the odd drink at home but he’d felt really uncomfortable with me ordering anything alcoholic out in public, because I was visibly pregnant, and he was really worried about what other people in the restaurant were thinking.

I didn’t notice any judgement, and never have, but frankly I wouldn’t care if there was. He also reminded me of the time we had some family round and I had a glass of champagne, and said he’d felt unhappy about it then too.

The reasons he is giving are that he knows of no one who drank in pregnancy (bar our own mothers who drank according to the guidelines in the mid 80’s at the time) and he thinks a big reason I do it is to ‘challenge’ the patriarchy and to go against the rules, not because I truly fancy a glass of wine. This is bullshit but I have ranted before about pregnant woman being infantilised and deemed not capable of critical thought. We don’t really actually know many other friends that have gone through pregnancy either, but he maintains they would have cut out all alcohol. Yes I know what the NHS guidelines say but I’m of the opinion that they say ‘none at all’ because it’s safer than ‘trusting’ women to not underestimate the units in a glass of wine etc or use it as an excuse to binge. Which I would absolutely never do. I know what a unit is.

For what it’s worth I’ve cut down, but not eliminated, caffeine, and I eat soft cheese and Parma ham too, and I have my steak rare or medium-rare.

He is now saying that the drinking is not something he’s comfortable with anymore and just because I have a book that says it’s fine I just have no way to know if we’ve put our unborn son at risk or not, and if he was pregnant he wouldn’t touch a drop. He can’t handle me ordering a drink in public anymore as it just makes him feel too uncomfortable- it didn’t so much when I didn’t have a bump but he hates the fact that ‘people are judging and looking at us’ now that I do.

I fully expect to get some replies about how he’s right and I am being reckless with my pregnancy, and that it’s only 9 months and why can’t I just cut it out all together, and the answer is, I had weighed up or thought I’d weighed up, whether I truly I had to, and considered myself to be in very safe limits. I like the taste of good wine and the foods it goes with. Yes I’ve tried alcohol free wine and it’s rank, I’d be more likely to cut everything out than drink pretend versions.

So I’ve just woke up this morning upset that he’s had all these thoughts about me causing harm to our baby (for what it’s worth I had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, and I know that was not down to alcohol as I hadn’t drunk at all as I lost it in the first trimester, so it didn’t affect my decision to have the odd drink in this pregnancy) and also that he’s inflicting other peoples judgments on me and just generally making me feel really bad. He’s said that if the child has behavioural difficulties down the line then he can’t rule out that it could be down to drinking.

So hit me with it- am I being unreasonable?

OP have you shown your DP your research? And more importantly, has he done any research into this? If he has, can you have a sit down and discuss it? It may change your mind, you might change his mind.

For the record, I had the odd glass of wine during pregnancy too.

It's ridiculous asking/expecting your partner to give up alcohol while you're pregnant.
If you cant cope with being around that for 9 months then you've got a problem. I couldn't have cared less if my partner drank every day while I was pregnant. I didn't drink because I didn't want to take any risks.
If there are congenital problems with your baby then you naturally wonder if it had anything to do with your lifestyle while pregnant. I couldn't cope with those thoughts.
This is not directed at you OP, just women in general.
It does seem you are putting a lot of emphasis on how much you enjoy your wine and how important it is to you.

It's not other people's reaction, it is the risk to the unborn child.

You have made a decision with a very long justification but it seems to me the reality is that you just cannot stop drinking alcohol.

I presume when the child is born you will return being "big into wine" (I think that's the way you put it in the OP). This sounds very much like an alcoholic.

So yes YABU.

I can't stand the "your body, your choice" argument given by some PP. It's not just about your body, it's about someone else's body that happens to be growing inside you.

YABU

About drinking in pregnancy. Is it really that hard to just stop?

Shocked by some of the responses on here. You're drinking a very small amount of wine and for your dp to say he's uncomfortable about this when already six pints in is a bit rich. I definitely agree that if you do decide to cut out alcohol for the remainder if your pregnancy he should do the same.

@SpaceOp

And a study that only looks at birth weight is, obviously, meaningless, as is a Harley Street GP telling his paying clients what they want to hear.

Wow. So a person should listen to a bunch of people on the internet instead of someone who is well regarded, experienced, and professionally trained? Hahahahaha. Amazingly low view of doctors there. Also, it was a she. Internalised misogyny much?

Well same argument for the NHS Vs this author who isn't actually a doctor...

There is no safe limit for drinking in pregnancy.
The numbers of babies and children experiencing FASD has dramatically increased in the last ten years

www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/keeping-well/drinking-alcohol-while-pregnant/

I’d be pleased that he is showing care and concern for your baby, but it would also be more supportive if he joined you in not drinking

I often wonder if there are issues with children why we don't spend more time thinking about whether it was the quality of the sperm that caused the problem? Funny how seldom never that comes up?

Or perhaps the quality of the maternity care received by the woman? I'm certain that some of DS' issues are due to his very traumatic birth experience. But no one wants to do research into whether getting me a c-section instead of forcing him out, using ventouse and leaving him with bruising and sores on his head could have had anything to do with it? No, that NEVER comes up as a reason for his Sensory Processing issues. [although, to be fair, I've also never been blamed for them either, so I guess at least on this one, the woman is not considered at fault?]

@SpaceOp

The risk with low sperm count is that pregnancy does not occur at all, which given the world is over-populated, is a far less negative outcome than brain and body deformities.

The point I was making is that low sperm count is not blamed on men, while women are blamed for everything. You may or may not think low sperm count is an issue, but nonetheless, you've spectacularly missed the point that something that ONLY happens to men is not, miraculously, blamed on men.

Also, while overpopulation is a problem theoretically, a quick read of the press would tell you that right now lots of countries are, in fact, very concerned about the impact of low birth rates.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Blaming a man for his low sperm count doesn't compare to blaming a woman for harming her baby by chosing to drink/smoke/partake in habits known to put her baby at risk.

he should support you and not drink either

What if we swapped out the word alcohol to line of cocaine? Everyone would be up in arms then.
Alcohol is a drug, as is nicotine-they’re just legal ones. There are other legal drugs (prescription meds) that are also advised against during pregnancy…are you going to obstinately take them too just because you want/need to?

What I mean is, there's many reasons, some the fault of the man, some not, why a man's sperm count might be low. There is only one reason why a baby would have foetal alcohol syndrome, because the mum drank alcohol while pregnant, so yeah, the blame lies with her.

YANBU and I would be seriously unimpressed with my husband if he expressed those views especially about something being wrong with the baby.

He's a CF and I would NOT take those comments lightly.

You have my sympathy.

I can see both sides, it’s one of those where they truely don’t know the risk. But I had the odd Prosecco with both pregnancies far and few between but I always checked with my partner he was ok with it, because as much as it was my body it was OUR baby.

I had one very small glass per week - my Friday night treat. My midwife said that was fine. I don’t drink tea or coffee so caffeine was no issue and I did give up the soft cheese and pate and steered well clear of salad bars - more likely to get listeria from those than from Camembert.
But my DH also kept the drink right down - he actually said that he couldn’t drink much if I couldn’t. So I think you could cut down but he is also out of order here.
I hope he isn’t going to try to control what pain relief you can have in labour. If I were you I would address that now.

Advice on drinking in pregnancy changed in 2016. Zero alcohol is recommended because there isn’t enough evidence to be able to say X amount is safe. Equally there isn’t enough evidence to say that eg 2 units a week is unsafe.

With public health advice people’s attitude to being told ‘limits’ is factored in. If 2 units is ‘safe’ or the ‘occasional’ glass of wine is said to be ok then people think 3 units is fine and this thread has shown posters think twice a week is ‘chronic’ whereas some would interpret ‘occasional’ as 5+ times a week. With larger glass sizes and different strengths of alcohol it’s easy to accidentally drink more than you mean to. As a public health message zero alcohol makes sense. That doesn’t mean that 2 units a week is harmful.

I’m not surprised there’s about a 50:50 split in the vote, OP. At the end of the day it’s about risk tolerance, and perhaps not surprisingly on a site where people come to seek advice about parenting, I generally find Mumsnet quite risk averse. I haven’t felt able to join in my my relevant Mumsnet birth club because I just don’t have the same level of anxiety about stuff that a lot of people seem to. And that’s fine. People deal with pregnancy and parenting in v different ways. Those judging you on this thread are entitled to their view. And this probably won’t be the first time you have a disagreement with your husband about how to do things with respect to your child.

For what’s it’s worth, however, I’m 100% with you, and would be v irritated if my husband had said what yours had said. I’m 7th months pregnant and my attitude to drinking has been v v similar to yours.

I’ve also been enjoying the soft cheeses and have been in a hot tub. And I’m the kind of person that buys car seats second hand from the Internet. I don’t believe in sanitising a life to be free of all risk, and i hope to bring my children up with similar attitudes.

I also have the data point of my 3 year old, for whom I had the same attitude towards drinking throughout pregnancy and breastfeeding. A smarter and healthier little thing you couldn’t hope to meet. My peer group all have very similar attitudes as well, many many kids between us, and zero harm is yet to result...

Covid has shown how divisive these calculations of risk v benefit can be around health issues. And I’m sorry you’ve found yourself in conflict with your husband over this.

If he is so bothered, he should absolutely be willing to give up alcohol in solidarity.

Alcohol can absolutely harm babies. You are not harming your baby with the amount you are drinking. No it’s not the same as giving a newborn a drink of wine. (For what it’s worth, I’m also medically trained).

Best wishes for the rest of your pregnancy, and I hope you can resolve this with your husband.

I hope he isn’t going to try to control what pain relief you can have in labour. If I were you I would address that now

I find that comment reaching! Pain relief offered by a HCP is hardly the same as drinking alcohol. She asked why he was quiet and he gave an honest answer

YABVU.

I've read the whole thread but tbh the title instantly told me everything I need to know about you and your attitude towards YOUR wine and YOUR pregnancy.

It's really not a good look OP.

If he is so insistent on no alcohol then that must include him too. Personally I think a lot of guff is talked about what you can and can't do in pregnancy and yes, that is partly the Patriarchy policing women.

I avoided alcohol completely, whilst TTC and during my pregnancy. That was my choice, I know I would have worried to much otherwise.

@Laiste

Blunt opinion? I think this much determination to carrying on drinking alcohol smacks of dependency.

When you add on the cheese, the rare steak, the prawns ect ... it smacks of obstinancy.

All the 'if i can't then neither should he' business - just bloody childish.

You summed it up really well. Couldn’t put my finger on why it all comes across so off as a whole until this comment.

@Rebelwithverysharpclaws

If he is so insistent on no alcohol then that must include him too. Personally I think a lot of guff is talked about what you can and can't do in pregnancy and yes, that is partly the Patriarchy policing women.

What absolute rubbish. Not everything is about 'policing women.'

Most of the things women cannot do in pregnancy are probably low risk. That's not to say there are no risks at all. Scientific fact is nothing to do with controlling women.

OP, it is not just 'one book' though. Head of UCLH obstetrics wrote a well published research about drinking in pregnancy, I. E. Small amounts shouldn't be critisied and discouraged. It is his baby too, but you are the one who decides what vitamins to take, you decided what you eat during pregnancy and it is your decision to drink small amounts. He might disagree, but only your opinion counts. The fact that he doesn't mind that much when you drink home, but only concerns about stranger 'S opinion invalidates his argument completely.