Do I make DD give up rainbows/brownies because of school?

[RainbowsBrowniesLove]

DD is 6, very nearly 7 (end of July). Year 2.

Every week she has spellings and 2 pieces of homework to do.

If they get less than 50% on their spelling test on a Friday morning they lose 15 minutes of golden time on Friday afternoon.

If homework isn’t handed in on Thursday they lose 15 minutes of golden time on Friday to do the homework – so can lose half an hour.

They can also lose up to 15 minutes for bad behaviour throughout the week, so in theory they can lose the entire hour of golden time.

DD never does her homework. We do the reading and spellings but never the homework so she only ever gets at most 30 minutes of golden time.

1 night a week she swims for a half hour lesson immediately after school, we come home and she’s often tired but will attempt reading and sometimes spellings. If she’s too tired we read again in the morning, and I try and test her spellings on the walk to school but she doesn’t always want to.

1 night a week we go from school, have a quick bite to eat, change into rainbows uniform and off we go. This is currently a few nights after swimming but when she moves to Brownies after October Half Term it’ll be the night before swimming (Swimming is Tuesday and Rainbows Thursday, Brownies will be Mondays)

She will have to spell between 8 and 12 spellings, she usually gets between 0 and 3 right. School are saying she needs extra practice an extra night a week. Spellings are given out Monday after Fridays test so can’t even do extra practice over the weekend.

Part of me thinks she should give up Rainbows/Brownies to help school work as she can’t give up swimming for safety and medical reasons – we live in a town with a fast flowing river, a canal and a small lake, and she has a medical issue that’s greatly improved by swimming, school do 1 term of swimming in year 4 that’s it due to where the pool is compared to school (it’s not easily walkable so they have to charge parents to go and they never get 100% payment so it’s not financially feasible to do it more often) so she needs to learn to swim and the effect on her medical condition means I will not be stopping those lessons.

But then another part of me thinks that she was behind when she started school in 2018* and she benefits so much from Rainbows – she talks about it for days afterwards, has invited some of the girls from there to her party in July (she doesn’t know they’re coming though, as I haven’t told her yet) and it’s the one place she’s not with classmates (like at swimming) so not comparing herself to others. It’s one of the few places she’s her for her and not for her difficulties – she does everything at the same time as all the other girls, wears the same clothes/uniform and no-one but the group leader knows of her difficulties (none of the other leaders/helpers know as group leader felt it was need to know only). So I don’t want her to give that up. Also selfishly I was never allowed to join guiding as a child and always wanted to so the fact DD loves it also makes me incredibly happy.

*When she started school in 2018 she was 12 months behind and spent parts of the day in Reception out of the classroom with a TA trying to “plug the gaps”. Because of lockdown and her being unable to engage with most of the home learning (and school refusing her a place despite me, DDs paediatrician and DDs teacher begging for a place for her) and some medical treatment before Christmas where she missed a few weeks she’s now around 18 months behind. She has a communication disorder caused by joint problems that also cause mobility issues, she can also have issues with making it to the toilet on time. School also think she might be dyslexic and/or have hearing issues but won’t refer her for dyslexia assessment until the Christmas of year 3. She is also not currently getting targetted support school say due to covid, and it's obvious she's struggling with the actual work as well as spellings.

My ramblings come after we walked back from rainbows and I was testing her spellings for the week and she can’t spell any of them. We’ve practiced 3 times this week and she’s not got any right despite the practice.

For added context I am a single parent and she goes to ExH EOW, he will not take her to any activities, and she often misses parties of her friends if they fall on his weekend. He will not do schoolwork with her so an extension for the homework would only help on my weekends as I get her back from him too late on Sunday to do anything.

So do I stop rainbows/brownies or keep her there? Basically WWYD if it was your DD?

I apologise in advance if I drip feed I don’t know what other information people might want from me

Stick with brownies and anything else she enjoys or improves her confidence or self esteem. That is more important the demoralising schoolwork.

My DD is dyslexic and schoolwork was a struggle and school kids can be quietly (unnoticed by the teacher) cruel saying she was a ‘scribbler’ and I am sure far far worse.

If she enjoys cooking or baking buy a kids book in big print and cook and read the recipes together, get her to write a list about something i.e. shopping lists, things to take on holiday etc or do a basic science experiment reading the instructions, audio books are fab for the car and don’t take much effort, obviously alongside reading with you and her reading a little. Or buy or get books from the library on things she is interested in even if they are sometimes above level if she is interested she might make more effort. DD loved dogs so we devoured all books fiction and non fiction about dogs.

I would also have a word with school about how they can support your DD discreetly (so other kids don’t make fun of her) rather than punishing her. I am sure they wouldn’t punish a child with one leg for coming last in a sprint race and make them loose golden time.

Take care OP and DD 💐 🍫 🍷

I think I too would be looking at other local schools, this seems far too strict for infants with regards to home learning.

So a child they suspect as possibly dyslexic is being punished for not getting 50%+ in a spelling test?

Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

She needs the social side of stuff for her communication difficulties and she deserves time out of school for extra curricula.

The school have a legal responsibility to make reasonable adjustments in the face of disability.

They also have a responsibility to provide support due to send and the covid relaxations for meeting these ended last July.

I'd be looking for a different school. One who doesn't put so much pressure on academics above all else.

What sort of disgusting excuse for a school punish a child they think has dyslexia for not getting spellings right?

I’d be fuming in your shoes OP!! Don’t accept that nonsense. Your poor DD. Insist on an assessment for dyslexia and tell them DD will not be missing any more golden time due to spellings. Tell them it’s non negotiable.

You need a new school OP. This school will drive her self esteem into the ground. I’ve been there. I wish so much that I had changed schools sooner.

Keep brownies
Change school to one which does not punish her SEN

Isn't this disability discrimination from the school?! Definitely don't stop rainbows/brownies!!

Keep her in Rainbows it is so beneficial for her, my dd has spent many years in guiding and one of the big benefits is that when she moved to secondary she knew more people.
The school honestly sound rubbish and are failing to make adjustments for your dd, I’d honestly consider looking to move her.

@RainbowsBrowniesLove

Thank you for the suggestions about homework, I will look into it.

Unfortunately no other school nearby can meet her mobility needs as she struggles with things like ramps if they're too steep or long, this school is all on one level and all one building.

She absolutely loves Rainbows and I'm sure she'll love Brownies too, from the moment she went she's always ran in singing. She sings the songs with her sylvanian families and barbies when not there which I think is adorable.

Will try and talk to school again. Even an extension over the weekend would give me a few extra minutes on Monday morning or whenever.

Don't speak to them.

Put it in writing.

Email.

Dd has these difficulties.
It affects her this way.
She's needs x support (inc spellings at weekend).

Give 5 days for them to provide a send plan to you if how they are going to support her.

Conversations aren't offices records and can be denied and are often used as delay tactics.

Agree with a lot of others - you need to speak to the school and say they are discriminating against her by punishing her for not being good at something that is specifically affected by her disability. Would they reduce golden time if she wasn't able to run laps/score a goal in PE because she was in a wheelchair?

I don't think dropping rainbows/brownies is going to make that much difference to be honest - if swimming is only half an hour immediately after school one day a week then don't you have all of monday evening, most of tuesday evening (if swimming starts c.3.30 is over by 4, home by 4.30 at the latest?), and all of thursday evening, plus a bit of revision friday morning? Obviously don't expect her to be studying all evening as soon as she gets home from school until she goes to bed, but if you're doing, say 20 mins on her spelling three days a week, and she's still getting 0-3, then as a pp said, one extra session on the wednesday isn't going to magically get her up to 12.

Re: the spellings, this might be blindingly obvious, in which case I apologise, but have you tried not even looking at half of them and just picking the 4/5 easiest and practicing them? If there is no chance she will ever get 12 right, don't even aim for that, but if concentrating on a smaller number means she might consistently get 3-4 each time rather than 0 it might both help her self-esteem and show the teacher you are trying? Also have you tried making up songs or mnemonics for them (e.g. Mrs D Mrs I Mrs FFI etc. in 'Matilda' for 'Difficulty.')

I think the spelling is less of an issue than homework, she loses half her golden time every week because she's not getting this done? Why not?

When my daughter was this age (she's 8 now) she was doing 15 hours a week gymnastics, half an hour swimming and Rainbows. She managed just fine !

I would pull her out of the spelling test personally. If she is dyslexic, she would be much better off learning to spell the top 500 words (you can get these in books especially for dyslexic children).

Your issue is with school handing out the spellings on a Monday, not with Rainbows. I would also add you can find the time to do the homework and spellings. My daughter used to do it in the car between leaving school and arriving at gymnastics for 4 hours and still does now she's doing 20+ hours a week. All of her squad are the same. Busy people generally have more time than less busy people. There's lots of good advice above about speaking to the school. She sounds like she needs Rainbows. Definitely keep it.

Take the EHCP refusal to assess to tribunal.

My ds was at an academy. They were worse than useless and actively made life harder so I'd move him. He went on sick and I appealed refusal to assess ehcp. The academy actually told the judge they disputed camhs report report because they didn't ask their opinion 🤣
Most likely because she's a senco and not a clinical psychologist!

I would suggest contacting IPSea or sossen.

Btw I got ds ehcp with 20 hours support on it after winning tribunal.

Homework she's not the only one who doesn't do it, I don't agree with homework for under 7s at all, I don't think they need it. I didn't start having homework until I was in year 5 and I have a degree and job that requires me to work at home after hours sometimes, I am perfectly successful!

Keep going to rainbows. I don’t think any child should practise spelling more than three times through the week. If she’s still getting less than 50% they’re too hard.

We do spellings before school. Another way of making sure they dont miss homework or spellings is put it on a clipboard for them to look at on the way to after school activities.

That is appalling. If they must use Golden Time, it should only be used to reinforce behavioural expectations. It has no place in punishing a child for not getting full marks in a spelling test. This is completely unacceptable.

From your posts, I don’t understand why you aren’t doing the homework. You don’t state that it is particularly long or difficult, just that you aren’t doing it.

I wouldn’t drop the activities, but you have to rearrange your time to include time for schoolwork every evening. This is only going to become more of an issue as time goes on.

@thevassal

Agree with a lot of others - you need to speak to the school and say they are discriminating against her by punishing her for not being good at something that is specifically affected by her disability. Would they reduce golden time if she wasn't able to run laps/score a goal in PE because she was in a wheelchair?

I don't think dropping rainbows/brownies is going to make that much difference to be honest - if swimming is only half an hour immediately after school one day a week then don't you have all of monday evening, most of tuesday evening (if swimming starts c.3.30 is over by 4, home by 4.30 at the latest?), and all of thursday evening, plus a bit of revision friday morning? Obviously don't expect her to be studying all evening as soon as she gets home from school until she goes to bed, but if you're doing, say 20 mins on her spelling three days a week, and she's still getting 0-3, then as a pp said, one extra session on the wednesday isn't going to magically get her up to 12.

Re: the spellings, this might be blindingly obvious, in which case I apologise, but have you tried not even looking at half of them and just picking the 4/5 easiest and practicing them? If there is no chance she will ever get 12 right, don't even aim for that, but if concentrating on a smaller number means she might consistently get 3-4 each time rather than 0 it might both help her self-esteem and show the teacher you are trying? Also have you tried making up songs or mnemonics for them (e.g. Mrs D Mrs I Mrs FFI etc. in 'Matilda' for 'Difficulty.')

So the routine would be

Tuesday school ends 3.15 straight to pool for 3.45 less, lesson ends 4.15, dressed and home for no later than 4.45 usually earlier but sometimes we get hot chocolates from the cafe before walking home with them. We then do a bit of practice and reading, but if she's not up to it I do the reading the following morning.

Thursday school ends 3.15 walk home by 3.30 eat put on rainbows uniform and out the door for 4.15 rainbows is 4.30-5.30. Then home by 6pm often earlier but sometimes with badges and everything they overrun slightly. then it's bedtime routine. Mondays will be same when she's at Brownies but that runs 5-6pm instead so she'll have a slightly later bedtime on that day.

So yes only really that day affected by time.

"Teachers not allowed to respond to parents directly"? W the actual F?
I do get parents getting limited access to teachers or the teachers would never have any home life, but that is ridiculous.

The school sounds crap.

I'd look again at the other ones. They may be able to cater to her mobility issues. This school certainly isn't catering to her needs (other than being on one level)

Definitely do not cancel rainbows/brownies!! She will get SO much more out of going to a group she enjoys, making friends outside of school & succeeding in different ways.

@godmum56

"Teachers not allowed to respond to parents directly"? W the actual F? I do get parents getting limited access to teachers or the teachers would never have any home life, but that is ridiculous.

They're not allowed because apparently the parents bombard the teacher will unnecessary emails, and the secretary also checks that emails are going to the "appropriate member of staff" so sometimes I've emailed and then had a reply from the secretary saying the class teacher won't get it as it needs to go to the head of key stage or whatever as it's there problem but again no direct reply any replies come from the secretary as "Mrs X has said..."

@pastapestoparmesan

I’m a teacher, and that sounds like a crap school. Some of my Y3s are learning Y1 spellings currently. Any child who does well in a spelling test or improves gets a reward from me. If they’re consistently failing spelling tests they get extra support and/or more appropriate spellings. TLDR: don’t give up brownies, and consider a better school that actually gives a shit about children.

Yes, also a teacher and your DD's school sounds awful. I'd be speaking very firmly.to them about discriminating against my daughter due to her disability, but tbh if they have that kind of culture it's probably not going to change so I'd look for somewhere more nurturing.

Definitely definitely don’t give up Rainbows.

I have one child constantly rewarded for being NT and bright, which is a reward in itself, yes? My other child with additional needs has low self esteem in part due to punishments for things he can’t actually help. It’s so tedious and unfair.

Sounds like you are doing a great job, by the way.

Even with an early bedtime and a rest break, there is time for homework and practice after activities in that schedule.