AIBU to think Maya scored a victory for common sense today?

[DancesWithTortoises]

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

news.sky.com/story/maya-forstater-woman-who-lost-job-over-transgender-views-wins-appeal-against-employment-tribunal-12329249

The law just cannot be allowed to tell people what to think.

Hurrah for Maya!

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer I meant that calling Maya an arsehole is incorrect. A spot of name calling might be fine in some circumstances. Wickham from Pride and Prejudice for example, is an arsehole. I think I can say that and it's simply correct labeling.

Congratulations to Maya.

Good job there's no transphobic comments on this thread then isn't it @LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

YANBU

Transgender people deserve to have their rights protected by the law. I do believe that.

But I also believe human beings cannot change sex and that one should be allowed to state as much without risking losing one’s livelihood.

Can someone tell me what makes trans women , women please ?

The law currently offers the self-referential definition that they have lived in their acquired gender for at least 2 years.

Which begs the question: how does anyone 'live as a woman'? Or 'live as a man'?

Maya would agree with you re transphobia LadyFidget. She is, however, not transphobic.

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

Transphobia is arseholery therefore I have said nothing incorrect.

But biology is still biology. I doubt many of us would want anything but peace and love for trans men/women but we want it for actual biological women too. And we want to be able to stare scientific facts without fear.

Thank you Maya for fighting your corner.

I am a little braver because of you

That's such good news! I recently read 1984 again, and noted that Orwell was at pains to point out that "the right to say two plus two is four" is one of the things denied to people under totalitarian rule.

Humans, like all mammals, are dioecious. That is, an individual can only be one of two sexes. It's a very bad sign for our society that anyone can be punished for saying (or indirectly indicating by using the "wrong" pronouns) they believe this material reality.

@Theunamedcat

Nobody is denying they exist but nobody should be denying biological reality either

People who say trans women are women are denying their existence. They are saying they are exactly the same as women when they are not. Transwomen exist as transwomen and they have a completely different set of needs and experiences to women.

Hang on, I've been deleted? What the fuck for?

Censorship for speaking your truth feels so unjust, doesn't it?

Has the light gone on yet?

@Witchesbelazy

Can someone tell me what makes trans women , women please ? As biologically their won’t be an exact match to a woman so how are some so sure to declare yes they are absolutely women when the science doesn’t back that ?

www.glaad.org/transgender/transfaq This is a good rundown that should answer your question Witchesbelazy

@Witchesbelazy

Can someone tell me what makes trans women , women please ? As biologically their won’t be an exact match to a woman so how are some so sure to declare yes they are absolutely women when the science doesn’t back that ?

The concept only works if you stop seeing “woman” as a description of someone’s sex, and start seeing it as an “identity”. Trans women are male in terms of sex but identify as women in terms of gender.

The ideology is redefining the word woman to ensure it includes trans women.

I hope that helps - it doesn’t totally make sense to me so I maybe haven’t explained it very well.

@ShowOfHands

Maya would agree with you re transphobia LadyFidget. She is, however, not transphobic.

Can you explain to me why saying "trans women aren't women" isn't transphobic?

I doubt many of us would want anything but peace and love for trans men/women but we want it for actual biological women too.

What makes you think trans men/women don't want peace and love for women?

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag I think it's because there's more to being a woman than a feeling or enacting a set of gender stereotypes.

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

I doubt many of us would want anything but peace and love for trans men/women but we want it for actual biological women too.

What makes you think trans men/women don't want peace and love for women?

Lots of trans women do.

The trans activism however is actively harmful to women by downplaying the importance of biological sex. Women are oppressed primarily due to their sex, and if we aren’t allowed to talk about sex as part of feminism because it offends trans women then there will never be equality.

I am so pleased by this judgement. Go Maya! So happy I keep breaking into song.

It's actually a very intetesting judgement and I really recomend reading it. It is unequivocal that GENDER CRITICAL BELIEFS ARE WORTHY OF RESPECT and indeed follow UK law (yes I'm shouting. I'll keep on shouting that one!). I am delighted.

'Trans women aren't women' isn't transphobic in the same way as saying 'a five year old isn't an adult' isn't ageist.

Or 'A blind person does not have full vision' is not disablist.

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag you are allowed to believe that transwomen are women. Others now are also allowed to say that whilst they respect a person's right to present in a way that makes them feel must comfortable in their own skin, that does not mean they believe that by so presenting, it makes them women as one who is born biologically as a woman.

Just as I don't believe that the wafer and wine in the catholic faith are ACTUALLY the body and blood of Christ (nor do I believe in God at all in fact) But I recognise your right to do so.

Stating material reality that sex is real, binary and matters is not transphobic but if you choose to believe that Transwomen are women, that is your right. There are also people who believe the earth is flat. I also disagree but recognise that they are allowed to believe that.

Does that help?

Could someone define transphobia for me, because stating that "transwomen aren't women" is a biological fact, not hate speech.

[quote BarbarianMum]@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag I think it's because there's more to being a woman than a feeling or enacting a set of gender stereotypes.[/quote]
But trans women aren't acting at being women they are women.

The concept only works if you stop seeing “woman” as a description of someone’s sex, and start seeing it as an “identity”. Trans women are male in terms of sex but identify as women in terms of gender.

The ideology is redefining the word woman to ensure it includes trans women.

I hope that helps - it doesn’t totally make sense to me so I maybe haven’t explained it very well.

It doesn't make sense to anyone SlipperyDippery.

If woman is a gender identity, it needs a description, or a means of identifying it. Which, to my mind, has never been forthcoming.

And you still need a word for an adult human female. How do you differentiate between an adult human female, and a minor human female. We have the word girl, what's the word for the adult?

None of it makes sense.

Absolutely.
Shame she had to fight so hard to get it.