AIBU to think Maya scored a victory for common sense today?

[DancesWithTortoises]

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

news.sky.com/story/maya-forstater-woman-who-lost-job-over-transgender-views-wins-appeal-against-employment-tribunal-12329249

The law just cannot be allowed to tell people what to think.

Hurrah for Maya!

I’m fine with “women and bleeders” if “bleeders” is what trans / non binary people decide they like as a descriptor.

I don’t see it as a great marketing strategy, but hey-ho, if that’s what minorities choose as inclusive language and it makes them happy then I’m all for it.

No, it makes no difference to me. It just seems a bit of a shame to never be happy.

I couldn't agree more.

She may have her job back but she still has no right to misgender people (if you read the full text). Good.

She's also not allowed to go round and sing opera through people's letterboxes. Good.

Some of these are pretty bad ‘bleeders’ etc but as pp have said it’s not our call.

Sounds awful to my ears though, bit dehumanising.

“Bleeders” is awful.

@WalkersAreNotTheOnlyCrisps

Me personally? Just women.

Me too.

And me.

But if Transmen have a term they would like to add to "women", then fine.

I don't care if you stay or leave but I just want to point out that when you say

You’re the one who addressed me,

That was not in relation to the previous thread, it was you who started the rehash of that, not me.

This is great then! This is our middle ground!

I liked this bit of the judgment:

If a person, A, is treated less favourably by her employer, B, because of A’s failure to profess support for B’s gender identity belief then that could amount to unlawful discrimination because of a lack of belief.

Wonderfully clear

Yes!

@MarshaBradyo

Some of these are pretty bad ‘bleeders’ etc but as pp have said it’s not our call.

Sounds awful to my ears though, bit dehumanising.

I’m not keen on bleeders, I don’t think anyone will go for it. Although who knows 🤷‍♀️

But trans people can just shut up because it's one rule for us, another for them? She may have her job back but she still has no right to misgender people (if you read the full text). Good.

As long as trans people (or more likely, the people who think they are being allies) don't redefine my existence as as woman as being down to an undefinable and undetectable feeling of gender rather than the simple fact of having a female body, and don't take away my rights as a woman to single sex provision and spaces we are all good.

I have read the full text. There is literally nothing anyone GC would disagree with. GC people have no issue with trans people living happy and supported lives. We have an issue those who say that can only be done by prioritising trans beliefs and trans demands at the expense of everyone else.

@ThursdayWeld

She may have her job back but she still has no right to misgender people (if you read the full text). Good.

She's also not allowed to go round and sing opera through people's letterboxes. Good.

Things this judgement means you can do:

1. State that sex is real and immutable

Things this judgement doesn't mean you can do:

1. Hurry love
2. Always get what you want
3. touch this

I have read the full text. There is literally nothing anyone GC would disagree with. GC people have no issue with trans people living happy and supported lives. We have an issue those who say that can only be done by prioritising trans beliefs and trans demands at the expense of everyone else.

Exactly.

What did I say that was disablist?

Re-read my post. I asked if you were going to be disablist. It is a yes or a no, not an opening to discussion about your past life.

@WalkersAreNotTheOnlyCrisps

“Bleeders” is awful.

Of course it is.

Someone is on a wind up.

And we recognise that it's only a subset of the trans community who think like that

Arabella

Or fight this feeling any more or stop this thing we started

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/60c1cce1d3bf7f4bd9814e39/Maya_Forstater_v_CGD_Europe_and_others_UKEAT0105_20_JOJ.pdf

The text of the full judgement is above, apologies if it has already been posted. It's well worth a read.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

What did I say that was disablist?

Re-read my post. I asked if you were going to be disablist. It is a yes or a no, not an opening to discussion about your past life.

No, I’m not going to be disablist. Are you?

Has everyone seen the Peter Daley article? It's great!

This is not the first time that a philosophical belief has been recognised as protected, But there is no obvious other example which covers so many people, and which has been recognised in the midst of an ongoing and public debate. To that extent, Maya Forstater’s achievement may be unique.

www.linkedin.com/pulse/forstater-judgment-what-next-peter-daly

I love this bit as well -

What won’t change is the fact that a movement has grown up to campaign for women’s rights. This includes in particular many lesbian women. There are many men within it, but it is primarily and overwhelmingly a women’s movement. It started from scratch with nothing, has established itself and is growing. The lie that this is somehow a crypto-conservative, American right wing endeavour is obliterated by any of the videos of the meetings of A Woman’s Place, or the discussion threads on Mumsnet or the comments on Maya Forstater’s crowdfunding page. This case was funded by thousands of individual donations averaging £26.00 each. This is a grassroots women’s movement, and it is here to stay.

I can't stop this feeling, deep inside of me.

I can see clearly now, though.

Has this been posted?

If so, worth another!

Excellent interview with Maya who really explains the background and today's ruling

unherd.com/thepost/maya-forstater-todays-judgment-on-trans-is-a-landmark/

@Pumperthepumper

This is great then! This is our middle ground!

Except it's not. You as a literate person are happy with women and bleeders etc. I may be happy with other female gender identities But neither of these are good enough solutions because they complicate and muddy the language for the truly vulnerable. Low literacy Non native speakers Learning disabilities.

It's not a middle ground. You're just discriminating against a whole new set of people who don't have the voice to challenge it.

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer I’m not happy with bleeders, it’s horrible. Although if that’s what the trans community were happy with on the back of ‘women and’ I probably wouldn’t object.