AIBU to think Maya scored a victory for common sense today?

[DancesWithTortoises]

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

news.sky.com/story/maya-forstater-woman-who-lost-job-over-transgender-views-wins-appeal-against-employment-tribunal-12329249

The law just cannot be allowed to tell people what to think.

Hurrah for Maya!

I am sorry to hear you have bad news ladyfidget.

However, anyone who does 'look on sites such as stonewall they'll be able to give you some very helpful information.'

Please remember that Stonewall is an organisation that last weekend backed their CEO who stated that women expressing that sex is real and immutable were like anti-semites. They have also been caught out in their misrepresentations of the current laws. They have also fully supported the inclusion of males in female sports, including Rugby.

They also state that Lesbians are same gender as other's have said already on this thread and Stonewall do nothing to address the abuse that Lesbian's receive at the hands of other Stonewall members for stating their own boundaries. Not once have they ever addressed this.

And that is just this year. That doesn't include falsehoods that they published and spread previously.

I'd be taking any said by Stonewall or their closely aligned group with a large pile of salt, not just a grain. If you choose to believe them, that is your prerogative. At least we are now free to say that material biology is real and if someone has their own interpretation of their own reality, that is fine.

We cannot be abused by being called transphobic in stating that we believe that woman is the word used only for the purpose of describing an adult human female. And that sex is immutable. Organisations that would have you believe otherwise should provide their own robustly reviewed and proven and repeated scientific studies to prove their definitions. If they can't then you either take that leap of faith with them, or not.

So far, Stonewall's credibility is very precarious. Fancy keeping organisations listed on their diversity champions list that were no longer paying into the scheme and had not been audited recently.

Yeah, I would be careful about putting trust into such an organisation.

I disagree with just about everything you've said on here @LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag but I am very sorry to hear that you have had bad medical news. Look after yourself

It’s insane this had to go to court in the first place, but I am relieved that believing in reality is once again worthy of respect in a democratic society.

Stonewall doesn't have a definition of woman. It's not on their list.

Transgender woman is on the list - A term used to describe someone who is assigned male at birth but identifies and lives as a woman.

But doesn't say what a woman is. It's like saying - A term used to describe someone who is assigned X at birth but identifies and lives as a X.

Clear as mud.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/glossary-terms

Stonewall is the last place I would look for helpful information.

@BoreOfWhabylon

I disagree with just about everything you've said on here *@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag* but I am very sorry to hear that you have had bad medical news. Look after yourself

Same here. I hope you get the best outcome possible, LadyFidget 💐

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

Transphobia is arseholery therefore I have said nothing incorrect.

No where has there been any transphobia. Maybe learn the definition of 'transphobia' before ignorantly using it in such an ill-informed manner.

@Witchesbelazy

Can someone tell me what makes trans women , women please ? As biologically their won’t be an exact match to a woman so how are some so sure to declare yes they are absolutely women when the science doesn’t back that ?

A man just has to believe he is a woman and hey presto, he is. Apparently . Anyone who points out that he can believe he is a woman but cannot actually be a biological woman, is a transfobe, or something. Its all very odd and disturbing. I am so glad for Maya and the valuable judgement today.

[quote ShowOfHands]@RufustheBadgeringReindeer I meant that calling Maya an arsehole is incorrect. A spot of name calling might be fine in some circumstances. Wickham from Pride and Prejudice for example, is an arsehole. I think I can say that and it's simply correct labeling.[/quote]
Fairs (as my son would say 😀)

Stonewall, just last week, likened the gender critical view to anti semitism.

And then doubled down on it and said it was an apt comparison.

And yesterday Benjamin Cohen, editor of pink news, reiterated it, saying that yes, it was similar to antisemitism.

A view that's just been protected in court as not only part of the equality act, but a view that is held to be extremely prevalent.

But @MarchXX what is this thing that is "woman" that he believes himself to be? Because if biology is out, then what else is there?

[quote WallaceinAnderland]Stonewall doesn't have a definition of woman. It's not on their list.

Transgender woman is on the list - A term used to describe someone who is assigned male at birth but identifies and lives as a woman.

But doesn't say what a woman is. It's like saying - A term used to describe someone who is assigned X at birth but identifies and lives as a X.

Clear as mud.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/glossary-terms[/quote]
It's frustrating. Because they constantly use the word woman, to mean woman, when it's in relation to a transwoman. But not when it's in a relation to an actual woman.

@FOJN

Hang on, I've been deleted? What the fuck for?

Censorship for speaking your truth feels so unjust, doesn't it?

Has the light gone on yet?

Snap!

Hang on, I've been deleted? What the fuck for?

Because when people post this stuff outside the Feminism echo chamber, they don't like anyone who disagrees with them.

respectful discussion or debate is unlikely to be unlawful and those holding opposing beliefs must tolerate each other, even if they find each other’s beliefs offensive

This, this, this this!

I don't know if you've noticed, but the 'Feminism echo chamber' appears to be on the same wavelength as the Appeal Court. When this stuff gets near the courts, far more often than not it turns out the gender critical view is the one in line with the law of the land and Stonewall law is a fanciful overreach which has put a lot of employers on the wrong side of the law. In the last few weeks, following the Essex University report, a lot of employers have belatedly woken up to that.

@MintyMabel

Hang on, I've been deleted? What the fuck for?

Because when people post this stuff outside the Feminism echo chamber, they don't like anyone who disagrees with them.

Oh dear, you're joke just fell flat, it was a joke wasn't it?

A man just has to believe he is a woman and hey presto, he is. Apparently hmm. Anyone who points out that he can believe he is a woman but cannot actually be a biological woman, is a transfobe, or something. Its all very odd and disturbing. I am so glad for Maya and the valuable judgement today.

And not only that but has always been a woman. S/he/it/they just has/have/bollox/bum.

your not you're damn!

I just want to make it clear that I absolutely believe the ruling in Maya’s case was just and fair, and I believe it’s ridiculous that she was sacked in the first place. BUT where is the middle ground between women and transwomen? What will make this an easier ride for everyone?

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag Can you explain to me why saying "trans women aren't women" isn't transphobic?

Can you explain to us why it is transphobic?

Transwomen are transwomen. Not women. This, is SCIENTIFIC FACT.

Supplementary question; can you explain what 'transphobic' means? Because it appears you are using a term you don't understand.

Extra supplementary question; do you believe saying 2+2 = 4, and cannot equal 5, is a literary phobia?

Lady Fidget said they’ve had a consultant appointment today and some bad news so maybe leave it for just now.

@SlipperyDippery how do you define the identity of a “woman” without referring to some fairly sexist cultural and historical constructs of “feminine” behaviour that we are all meant to be freeing ourselves of? I’m in complete support of people wearing what they like, calling themselves what they like, but to admit that there is a defined identity of “woman” and “man” out there is simply sexist. We should be encouraging girls and boys to be whoever they want to be without having to change their own labels, to expand what woman and man means until no one feels “mis gendered” because the possibilities open to them as their born sex are limitless and not defined by gender.

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

I doubt many of us would want anything but peace and love for trans men/women but we want it for actual biological women too.

What makes you think trans men/women don't want peace and love for women?

Maybe their ACTIONS? The fact that they seem to actively HATE women and want to erase our identity and erase basic SCIENTIFIC FACT, as is evidenced by people such as yourself who want to silence women and call them arseholes for stating SCIENTIFIC FACT?

Take a look a yourself. You prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they are femphobic and HATE women.

There is no middle ground @Pumperthepumper but there is common ground. The right of women and transwomen to safety, respect and tolerance.