Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

@checkyourpops proceed with downsizing, make it clear to DD this is the plan over the next year or so. Start clearing out and decluttering. Make it happen! Of course she can have a baby but her choosing to have one is probably influenced by the fact she doesn't have other real life adulting to do!

What happens if her boyfriend doesn’t want to move into the flat? It’s unlikely she’ll be able to afford rent herself on maternity pay

Should’ve thought about that.

@checkyourpops I'm sorry your family is in this position, it reminds me of the mess my brother and his wife had to deal with with their eldest, she decided it would be a great idea to have a baby at 18 with a disinterested boyfriend and having just finished school and no job. She finally moved out when her child was 7 years old last year, now her younger sister is pregnant too with a boy she has known three months, so they are back at square one again. My brother's marriage is hanging by a thread, he is working all hours to pay for his kids and now grandkids and he poor wife feels she will never have any break from childrearing. They are under immense financial pressure, he is in poor health and they both feel resentment towards their situation all while trying to do the right things for their six kids. It's a mess. Please stick to your guns with this.

@BluebellsGreenbells what I mean is, OP needs to consider scenarios like this and think about how she’d deal with it. Worst case scenario is she prepared to see her DD and DGC officially ‘homeless’ or in temporary accommodation, etc.

I don’t think I’ve read such a callous account from a parent on here.
OP is disappointed in her daughter and I’m picking up a lot of feeling that she is worried about what people will think of her.
That’s why she’s very much of the mindset that she’ll help set her up with a flat etc but that she’ll ‘need do make do with a second hand pram’ etc. It’s using material goods as punishment/leverage - are you always going to hold over her that you helped her out, particularly as you aren’t happy with her choice of job or aspirations?
Think ahead to when your son will be setting up home and starting a family. Are you going to invest the same in him by setting him up with a small place to live but doing so grudgingly, or if he does things in the correct order and meets your expectations will you be unconditionally generous, and if at the stage of him starting a family, will you change into the ecstatic granny, buying them new things?

I’d also be interested in how you looked after her following the death of her baby; remember your daughter will always remember this. Therefore if you do treat any pregnancy or loss experienced by your son in a different way, again if he ticks your boxes by getting the job you want for him, or being married first etc, you’re going to harm your relationship further.

@Mumberjack the point is that her DD planned this with no plan beyond the expectation that she could stay at home and live off OP and disrupt her retirement. Why would OP then be expected to be ecstatic, get her the best items, etc?

It's different if you have a baby that you're equipped to have and you're not intending to try and outsource the responsibility onto your own parents. Then people would obviously be happy...

@PatchworkElmer well
If the boyfriend didn't move on and she can't afford the flat, I presume she would need to claim benefits.

I also don't think anyone would believe this was another "accident", the result would've been the same.

Give over. Her daughter is harming her relationship with the rest of her family with her choices. People need to take ownership for their actions and the consequences. Depending on how this goes with the BF, she's also potentially ruining the relationship between the new baby and his family. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes. Adulting is tough.

@Mumberjack why is the OP damaging the relationship?

I see the DD damaging the relationship by manipulating her parents and trying to force their hand by getting pregnant whilst living in their home and with no ability to be self sufficient?

The relationship works two ways!

or if he does things in the correct order and meets your expectations will you be unconditionally generous, and if at the stage of him starting a family, will you change into the ecstatic granny, buying them new things

I'd wondered this too.

I do feel for you @checkyourpops, I think I would feel similarly to you in terms of wanting my child to be independent before starting a family. And you absolutely have the right to want her to move out prior to having the baby so she can be properly independent.

But... oh my gosh do I feel for your poor DD. From what you've said she's clearly still struggling with the loss of her first baby. And at a time when she probably needed a big hug from you, you turned around and basically said she was imagining a line and it was negative. Then when she showed you a blatantly positive test it was pretty much "Well it's still faint so don't get your hopes up". Add to that, at the point at which she started TTC she seemingly had full support from your DH. Plus the understandable belief that she would be able to have this baby at home with you all, as obviously, that would've been the case with the baby she lost.

In the past 48 hours-ish her entire understanding has been turned on its head. Would she have honestly made the same decisions if she'd known this would be the reality?

I need to re-iterate again OP, I do totally get where you're coming from. You have plans to downsize, you shouldn't be put in a position where you might have to 'pick up the slack' for your adult DDs decisions. But please try to tread a little more carefully particularly in the words you use with her and consider how you'd feel if she'd done things 'correctly' (ie. partner, own home, much older etc). Whilst I think your approach of ensuring her independence (and maintaining your own plans) is sensible. You do run the risk of irreversibly damaging your relationship with her.

@georgarina I agree that she’ll be in the family home, where ground rules will need to be clear, but her daughter didn’t plan the pregnancy to spoil her parents plans, she was and is grieving after a traumatic experience. A new baby is never going to replace the baby who died but the urge to fill empty arms is there like it or not.

That’s why i feel there’s more unsaid from OP’s response to her daughters first pregnancy. Was she as judgemental and forthright in her opinions then about living arrangements? Did she express any kind of relief about the miscarriage?

OP is very clear about all financial aspects of the situation so I have no doubt she would have raised this previously with her children in terms of when they’d be assisted (eg when we downsize/retire, we’ll help you out with x y z)

@Curiosity101 @Mumberjack what an odd post. Presumably the whole point of the OP son doing things in the ‘right order’ is that he will be able to set himself up in a home and with home appliances furniture etc. He won’t need all that the op daughter is just expecting her parents to provide. So yes she can then buy a brand new gift for his child.

As the DD is pregnant , not in a proper relationship and in a part time job that won’t cover her expenses, never mind her and a baby , the OP is going to have to help her with rent and purchasing all the baby equipment so why should she also be buying everything brand new for her.

@alwayswithhope From my perspective, it was more about how it comes across. I completely agree with your point, there's a massive financial outlay for the OP in support her DD in her choices which wouldn't be there if she'd done things in a better order. But for me it's all about how it's communicated to her DD and the intention behind it...

"We're going to need to spend a lot of money to be able to support you, so we won't be able to afford the best of everything and will probably need to get a number of things second hand" vs "Well if I agreed with what you were doing then I'd be happy about it and buy lots of new shiny things"

My interpretation of the OP (and I may well be wrong of course!) was that it was more about the second point than the first.

It’s not about everything being brand new or top of the range, it’s the implication that because they’re helping financially at this stage, when they don’t want to, the daughter is somehow punished.
But if they then hand over say £20k to the son for a house deposit etc without a care, it’s not fair.
And where does it end? Will the daughters child receive fewer gifts because of the expenses incurred prior to their birth?

@Mumberjack

It’s not about everything being brand new or top of the range, it’s the implication that because they’re helping financially at this stage, when they don’t want to, the daughter is somehow punished. But if they then hand over say £20k to the son for a house deposit etc without a care, it’s not fair. And where does it end? Will the daughters child receive fewer gifts because of the expenses incurred prior to their birth?

To be fair you’ve just made up that entire scenario. The OP said she has agreed privately with her husband that while they will make sure that the daughter has everything she needs they won’t be buying it new. No word of this even being communicated to her daughter. No doubt she can just tell her as there’s so much to buy it’s not all going to be new. Most people don’t receive deposits from their parents btw and you’ve also made up yourself the idea that the baby will get less gifts throughout their life.

need do make do with a second hand pram’ etc. It’s using material goods as punishment/leverage - are you always going to hold over her that you helped her out

Who here could afford all new items to set up a flat? Plus baby equipment?

Secondhand prams are fine, same with clothes and baby chairs etc - new is totally wasted money.

Plus she’ll need furniture washing machine and everything thing in between!

DD can’t afford it so why should the parents - she could’ve saved to move, saved for a baby, same as everyone else has to!!

There is a world of difference between buying gifts because you want to because you’re an excited grandparent, and buying necessary items because you are being forced to because the parents can’t provide them themselves.

No one has said anything about a house deposit or not treating grandchildren equally so I’m not sure why you’re talking out of your arse.

OP,

I so truly feel for you.

You are the only one in your family who can see this shit show clearly.

I can only imagine how furious you must feel with your husband.
Well he can bloody well step up massively to physically and practically support your daughter.

I can imagine going forward the relationship with your daughter will be challenging whilst you try and process your justified upset and disappointment.

Essentially she has completely taken whatever peace reigned in your family and now you are moving into a very stressful period of uncertainty.

I would be so furious at this.
I feel very sorry for your 11 year old.
Move forward on the flat.
I would keep costs to a minimum, no frills.

You have 7 months for her to see the reality that she has chosen for herself and for her to mature and prepare herself for likely single parenthood.

The sooner the penny drops the better.

Her utter single minded determination to do what she wants can't be changed, but you do not have to have her reminding you of it night and day.

The sooner his parents are contacted the better.
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if confronted by his furious parents he denies his part.

They may well blame your daughter for this calamity.

I really hope you have good friends in real life to allow you vent in a safe place.

Keep posting.

I know I’m extrapolating and thinking of scenarios which may not transpire so if this isn’t the case then fair enough but I’m picking up some odd feelings from the OP’s posts around the financial side because there seems to be a huge focus on this rather than the emotional state of the daughter and what she has been through.

And while everyone is angry about the daughter actively trying to get pregnant, she was pregnant before - for 5 months. All of this - the financial burden, the extent of support available, the impact on retirement - would have been raised for the first baby surely?? Or was everyone in denial before?

As has been pointed out, there is a difference between an accidental pregnancy and one which is actively planned despite having no way of housing and financially supporting the baby independently. The first falls into the 'shit happens. Deal with it' category of parenting issues. The second involves the OP's adult DD imposing her life choices on her parents. The OP is entitled to say "Actually, that doesn't work for me so, as an adult, it's time you moved out and lived independently".

Can she move in with her boyfriend?

The young woman lost her child.......her child died. I totally empathise as to why she ttced and is pregnant again, it is a sad state of affairs. A bit of therapy is not going to fill that void that is inside of her psyche. She needs love and understanding, not to be treated with such scorn. Regardless of the issue living at the family home with her baby or not. The op does not say anything nice about her dd in her posts on this thread, her disdain drips in every post.

It is just so sad.

My mother had me at 20 and so I spent the first few years of my life living in my grandparents' home, just a cot in the corner of my mother's teenage bedroom. It was very, very hard for everyone. Why anyone would deliberately want to create such a situation is beyond me and shows incredible naivety and selfishness.

imposing her life choices on her parents, the father parent appears to have had a different idea and feelings with regard to the situation and the op suggested that he actually does not want to downsize.