Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

"Some of the language you use about her is really an insight into how you may be speaking to her generally in a negative way and could really risk you losing your good relationship with her.

Things like "I said it isn't really that clear a positive so might not stick anyway" - frankly this is a horrendous thing to say to someone whether or not you agree with their choice and even if they havent had the experience she has. Honestly, if my mum said the same to me in the same situation I wouldnt have the same relationship with her again. You should apologise and re think how you speak.

You also seem very hung up on her life choices aside from the baby in terms of her job etc. It sounds belittling. I get that you wanted more for her but what if this is her more? If this is what she wants to make her happy in life then who are you to say otherwise. You arent her. If she wants to work in admin that's her choice.

If you're willing to say what you did to her about the pregnancy sticking, knowing she had the horrific experience of losing a baby late enough to have to endure labour, then I can almost guarantee you've made digs about her job. Her self worth is probably low and she feels a failure hearing that. No wonder she wants a baby."

Totally agree with this. The disappointment you obviously feel about your "D"D just leaps off the page, it must be so obvious to her irl.

Personally, I would never ever forgive you, if you were my "D"M and I'd be rethinking my life choices, were I your DH.

I think most of us can see a change in tone from the OP. The original posts seemed to be around feeling a sens of disappointment that daughter was not developing her obvious potential and her choices were going to impact on OPs well made plans.

They did come across as a bit harsh.

There seems to be more compassion in the updates and a more pragmatic view from OP and DH.
Do we need to continually call the daughter selfish and entitled etc. I think we know that the choices are not great with our benefit of experience, but she is still a loved daughter who has made a life changing choice at an early age.
She will be a young mum. It's not the end of the world and not the end of being able to achieve things she wants too.
Of course it's not ideal, but is life always ideal.
I think rhe OPs strategy is a good one and a good compromise that hopefully won't cause a long lasting rift. Because a complete break up with her only daughter would be a sad outcome that would cast a shadow over any retirement plans.
So now we wish a healthy pregnancy
Successful flat hunting
A conversation with the dad to be because he has responsibilities that are life long too

And generally good wishes to the daughter who one day might be saying the same to her daughter...

@ChangePart1

As I mentioned earlier on the thread, when I was a young teen and becoming sexually active my mum made it really clear to me that if I got pregnant at any point while living with them my choices would be abort or move out and support myself.

Always respected her for that.

Indeed.

Some people on MN would have you believe that having your own rules/opinions is tantamount to child abuse and your DC would never speak to you again if you were to impose any restrictions on them.

I don't know how they manage to produce offspring who have so little respect for them that they can't refuse to go along with their ridiculous ideas for fear of being rejected. It's like a parallel universe at times.

Yes I agree the comment about the pregnancy might not stick anyway was not very nice.

I think you are just frustrated with the situation of her determined to have a baby but not move out.

No point being angry with DH now. Just as there was no point being disappointed with the DD before.

I would be wary of pushing DD into a commitment with the BF she has not thought through. If nothing else the DD will get far more Govt support as a single mother than she would as part of a low wage couple. ( If they were already living together as an established couple in an independent household then that would be different)

I'm afraid you lost me at "she doesn't have a proper job, she does some admin role for the NHS."

I do an admin role for the NHS. The world would stop without admins. What do you consider a "proper" job?

Totally agree with this. The disappointment you obviously feel about your "D"D just leaps off the page, it must be so obvious to her irl

My teens already know how o feel about this, same as I knew my mothers feelings about it when I was young.

I’d go for a night out and she’d shout ‘don’t come home pregnant!’

I think it was good advise, kids need stability, they need parents to support them growing up, by staying home the support comes from the mother (in this case) rather than the father abs fathers family.

They both knew they were trying for a baby so they can both move in together and raise the baby.

I think good things can come out of this. It’s not ideal, but at least it’s a good chance for OP and her DH to support DD becoming independent by budgeting with her, finding out about whether she will need UC to top up her wages, how she is going to plan mat leave and childcare. It is frustrating she hasn’t picked up these skills before, but it’s an essential skill and hopefully she can learn. I hope the bf can step up too. I hope she has a safe pregnancy and they both grow into good, responsible parents.

You’re in a difficult position but I don’t think I could ask a 19 year old to leave home in the early stages of pregnancy, especially when they’d had a previous loss. Wait until she’s had a scan, at least. What happens if her boyfriend doesn’t want to move into the flat? It’s unlikely she’ll be able to afford rent herself on maternity pay. Yes she’s an adult and yes she’s ‘made her own bed’ to an extent, but I don’t think I could wash my hands of my child when they were in this situation. You are entitled to not want a baby in your home, but I think there’s a better balance to be struck here than you’re currently proposing, or you could damage your relationship with her long term.

I do also think your logic is a bit flawed here- so if you hadn’t found the tablets/ she’d lied and said this pregnancy was another accident, she’d be welcome to stay under your roof again?

@ClareBlue

There seems to be more compassion in the updates and a more pragmatic view from OP and DH.
Do we need to continually call the daughter selfish and entitled etc. I think we know that the choices are not great with our benefit of experience, but she is still a loved daughter who has made a life changing choice at an early age.
She will be a young mum. It's not the end of the world and not the end of being able to achieve things she wants too.
Of course it's not ideal, but is life always ideal.
I think rhe OPs strategy is a good one and a good compromise that hopefully won't cause a long lasting rift. Because a complete break up with her only daughter would be a sad outcome that would cast a shadow over any retirement plans.
So now we wish a healthy pregnancy
Successful flat hunting

There has been no change in the OP’s approach, she has been calm but firm from the start and her plan was always to set dd up in a flat if dd was pregnant, that isn’t a recent ‘compromise’.

The only change is that you have realised OP’s approach is right.

This sounds tough OP. To some PP - there is a big difference between being supportive and allowing your daughter to live at home with your GC so that GM gets stuck with all the parenting.

I agree that if this baby is going to be "the making of her" she needs to move out and live like an adult. If you let her manipulate you to get what she wants then she's just going to keep doing that and never grow up. We've all read threads about difficult and manipulative family members, that behaviour will have started somewhere and gone unchallenged.

At least she's in a stable job. Even if it's just part time there's always the chance to get a full time job doing something similar. One positive about NHS admin is she may be working alongside other staff groups. Often people will end up learning about other jobs in the NHS and then be inspired to go and train for them.

I can't believe how many people are advocating for the OP's DD to get pregnant again. She clearly cannot afford this right now and would have a tough life struggling to make ends meet.

OP has been clear about her retirement plans, and is allowed to spend her retirement spending her time and money as she wishes. Having to drastically change her plans because of her daughter's desire for a baby is ridiculous.

I think a frank discussion with your DH is needed to hammer home how serious you are.

@checkyourpops

The more I think of it, the more cross I feel at DH. Actively cheering her on before, it seems. Irresponsible of him on the highest level and this is where we are now

Sadly, I think you might end up saying the same about the boyfriend.

An active participant in the process, but not interested in the output.

NC for this because I’ve previously posted on this thread in support of the OP but can’t post this under that username.

OP, my family had a similar situation. My sister eloped with her boyfriend at 18, the marriage broke down pretty much immediately. She moved back in to the family home and was pregnant. Baby was born when she was 19 and the plan was that she’d work and my mother would do the child minding so sister could save for her own place. The father was not involved and did not pay maintenance.

To be fair, she did work, but as an uneducated teen, her opportunities were limited and she never earned much. Plus, she got too comfortable. She wasn’t paying for accommodation or childcare so had disposable income that she wasted.

She continued living at home until her son started university.

She only moved out because my parents actually bought her a house. They insisted on her using her savings (

My parents are in their 80s and very worried about how she’ll cope if she has to give up working before state pension kicks in.

Meant to add...

They hope that my nephew will be able to contribute towards his mother’s retirement. He’s in his 30s now, well educated, good job, married with a child of his own and another on the way.

I can see him helping out his mother because he has the means, and he’s a good guy. His wife understands that it’s a complicated relationship and supports him. But it just amazes me that the events of over 30 years ago and had such impact all this time later.

Complete “failure to launch” scenario of my sister, with the responsibility landing on the generation before her, and the generation after.

OP - you are doing the right thing. Irrespective of the reasons behind it she chose to actively TTC and she's an adult and needs to take on the adult responsibilities. I agree, she needs to find a place whilst pregnant or it will be too difficult.

I was a parent at your dd's age (unplanned). I completely get where you're coming from op, and I think you've been judged harshly by some posters.

You want the best for your daughter, and future grandkids. I would be the same in your position.

I think you are completely in the right @checkyourpops on your decision that she must take responsibility for her actions and move out

Just be careful you don’t let your anger cause you to act too harshly and damage your relationship with your daughter long term. What you said about the line was out of order and you absolutely can not push her toward breastfeeding as the cheaper option - that is not your decision to make.

Stay clear on how she must move out be nice to her too.

I'm with you OP. My youngest is 14 but all of them know that I'm done living with small children & to not to even consider me for living arrangements or full time childcare when babies start arriving. I love my kids but I didn't enjoy the 0 to 11 years & I simply don't want to go through that again.

She seems to be willingly walking into a situation that a lot of young women are desperately trying to fight their way out of. I appreciate there's grief after miscarriages (had 3 myself) but come on, at some point common sense has to return. There's a point where grief becomes selfish & indulgent & bringing a child into the world just to make yourself feel better is an example of that.

The father was not involved and did not pay maintenance.

I'm not in the UK and have no idea how easy it is to force/chase/shame a young unmarried teenage dad into paying his fair share---but given that the OP knows who he is and who his parents are, she and her DH need to be sitting down around the table with him and his family, and making sure that he and his family pay 50% of whatever this baby business ends up costing.

What a stupid young man. He knew she was planning to get pregnant and was still happy to place his unwrapped willy inside her. The young lady at least has the excuse of "pregnancy, miscarriage, labor, pain and obstetric procedures have probably left her a tad unhinged due to all the hormones etc. jumping about inside her." He does not have that excuse. He chose to do this. What a fool. But no matter how hard it is, no matter how poor he is as a 19yo who hasn't even finished his apprenticeship program, he needs to be paying half as soon as he starts earning (and his family should be stumping up in the meantime, if he has no income at all).

I'm sorry for your family's heartache OP. Trying to get pregnant again was literally all I focused on after baby loss, but I was an adult in my 30s living an independent life. Her pain and grief doesn't mean it gets to change your whole future. You've done nothing wrong saying that whether it was your lost GD or this potential baby, living with you with a baby was never long term and she's got to make adult choices if she wants the adult responsibility of being a parent.

I'm not in the UK and have no idea how easy it is to force/chase/shame a young unmarried teenage dad into paying his fair share---but given that the OP knows who he is and who his parents are, she and her DH need to be sitting down around the table with him and his family, and making sure that he and his family pay 50% of whatever this baby business ends up costing

I’m not in the UK either, but based on what I’ve read here, a CMS claim against a teenager on an apprentice wage would probably work out at about £7/week.

Unfortunately, there is no obligation for the father, let alone his family, to pay for 50% of anything. OP’s daughter will be counting on his goodwill.

Kokeshi I tend to agree with your assessment of the boyfriend. That is why I wouldn't be in a hurry to make my DD in any way reliant on him. The baby's fair share of an apprenticeship wage is highly unlikely to make any difference to their material wellbeing. However a happily arms length and carefree young father could end up being helpful in sharing the practical parenting, especially as the baby grows into a child.

I am certain foisting the in-laws on any expectant mother is always a bad idea.

Again if the young couple were already a family unit that would be different.

I would be wary of pushing DD into a commitment with the BF she has not thought through. If nothing else the DD will get far more Govt support as a single mother...

A shit state of affairs.

The rest of us will be picking up the tab for this fucking stupidity, then.