Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

Cannot believe some of the indulgence and justifications going on on this thread. If someone wanted to bring a puppy into a house that was poorly set up for this and where most of the family members didn't want it, everyone would be horrified and would point out, correctly, that this is irresponsible, that you don't get a puppy on a whim, that a puppy does not enter a house unless EVERYONE Is on board with it and so on. There would be concern for the puppy, as well as concern for the other people in the house and esp the person who is likely to get stuck with the hair-hoovering and poo picking.

Replace puppy with baby and apparently some people are OK with this. Because apparently it's okay and understandable for a baby to be conceived as a kind of human sticking plaster or therapy provider, rather than thinking about whether this is a good situation for a baby, thinking about the long term costs and responsibilities, thinking about the irresponsibility of having a baby come into the world with the "job" of comforting its bereaved mother, thinking about the ethics of conceiving a baby with an absent and disinterested father...

@Kokeshi123

Cannot believe some of the indulgence and justifications going on on this thread. If someone wanted to bring a puppy into a house that was poorly set up for this and where most of the family members didn't want it, everyone would be horrified and would point out, correctly, that this is irresponsible, that you don't get a puppy on a whim, that a puppy does not enter a house unless EVERYONE Is on board with it and so on. There would be concern for the puppy, as well as concern for the other people in the house and esp the person who is likely to get stuck with the hair-hoovering and poo picking.

Replace puppy with baby and apparently some people are OK with this. Because apparently it's okay and understandable for a baby to be conceived as a kind of human sticking plaster or therapy provider, rather than thinking about whether this is a good situation for a baby, thinking about the long term costs and responsibilities, thinking about the irresponsibility of having a baby come into the world with the "job" of comforting its bereaved mother, thinking about the ethics of conceiving a baby with an absent and disinterested father...

That is a very very good point. And I wonder if the people saying the DD should be supported in having a baby would be saying the same if it was their own DD, their own retirement and their own money/home. I very much doubt it. It seems to be a case of people posting what they would like to think that they would do as opposed to what they would actually do (and I say this as a woman who had her first child at 17 and didnt, until many years later, understand what a hand grenade I threw into my family's life).

What this woman needs is therapy to help her deal with her grief not another pregnancy.

@checkyourpops

Just got this off of DD. I said since she's living with us, I'd like her to do another test please.

She handed me this... all tearful. Big long speech about how she will work beyond hard and even do housekeeping for me if I let her stay.

Says she is absolutely thrilled, she knows I'm not but tried hugging me and saying this baby could be the making of her I said it isn't really that clear a positive so might not stick anyway, but she needs to tell her boyfriend. She said she will tomorrow.

I wasn't impressed. I said what's done is done but you need to find somewhere to live now. I've yet to tell H. She started yelling 'Please mum, let us stay!'. I haven't seen her since 7 now and she didn't want dinner

Going to come off this thread for a while whilst I process this. I now feel God awful, letting my future grandchild grow up in a small flat, because that's all they could afford reasonably

I'm so upset, I really am

This won't be the 'making of her' if you cave and let her stay. She decided she wants this baby and now she has to step up and be the parent which means housing that baby in the best place she can. If that means a small flat then so be it, not the end of the world.

@Kokeshi123

Cannot believe some of the indulgence and justifications going on on this thread. If someone wanted to bring a puppy into a house that was poorly set up for this and where most of the family members didn't want it, everyone would be horrified and would point out, correctly, that this is irresponsible, that you don't get a puppy on a whim, that a puppy does not enter a house unless EVERYONE Is on board with it and so on. There would be concern for the puppy, as well as concern for the other people in the house and esp the person who is likely to get stuck with the hair-hoovering and poo picking.

Replace puppy with baby and apparently some people are OK with this. Because apparently it's okay and understandable for a baby to be conceived as a kind of human sticking plaster or therapy provider, rather than thinking about whether this is a good situation for a baby, thinking about the long term costs and responsibilities, thinking about the irresponsibility of having a baby come into the world with the "job" of comforting its bereaved mother, thinking about the ethics of conceiving a baby with an absent and disinterested father...

This.

Kokeshi123 totally agree.

OP the most supportive thing you can do now for your daughter and GC is actually force her to stand on her own feet. That's the only way it can possibly be 'the making of her.'

If she truly does want this baby and want to be a good parent, that's what she needs to do - whether or not she sees that atm.

@checkyourpops

My DH annoys me because 5 years ago we spoke of retiring to a little cottage or majorly downsizing when DS went to uni/turns 18. All gone to shit now though if he insists that what DD is planning is fine

I wanted more holidays and time away. So instead of spending 1/2 weeks abroad, we could cruise etc. DH is due to retire very soon and it's a shame if it can't be as good as we'd hoped

I'm not sure why you're ass that what he wants is what will happen? Does you always do what he says?

I agree with others that you have a DH problem rather than a dd problem.

You can't dictate what your daughter does with her life, nor should you try. But you need to assert yourself with your DH and tell him she has to move out if she is going to have a baby. Or you will move out and he can stay and help her bring the baby up. Or whatever other option he can come up with.

But you can't and shouldn't tell your dd what to do with her life, no matter what different things you wanted for her.

assuming

Oh my god I'm sorry., just read your updates. I think you're going to have to be strong and get her rental sorted ASAP. Otherwise you'll be living with a baby for the next 18 years.

I'm glad there are some later posters seeing this from OPs point of view. As a middle aged woman it's almost as for some posters we are expected to be want and need free handmaidens for younger- seemingly more worthy - women.

Bringing up a baby is a huge undertaking. Having a baby in your house is a huge undertaking, actually scrub that it usually only becomes your undertaking if you have a vagina.

OP is perfectly entitled to have plans with her own DH once the DCs have grown up - not be lumbered into being the de facto DP for her DGC.

OP will stick to what she wants and get the DD into a flat. She’s clearly very determined on that. Is that the right thing to do? Who knows. The DD may flourish and realise that her mum was right. Or she may resent OP forever. It could go either way. That’s the chances we take with decisions as parents sometimes.

From everything OPs said I do not get the impression she’d up end doing all the work if the DD stayed. The DD sounds capable and this is a much wanted child for her. But then that also means she would probably manage fine in her own place.

I personally wouldn’t be pushing DD out before the baby is born. This pregnancy is going to be stressful for her. She’s bound to be worried about miscarrying again. Sitting alone in a flat pregnant and anxious isn’t a position I’d want my child to be in, regardless of whether they chose it or not. Fair enough to have a plan to move out once baby is here and everything’s going well but until then I’d want to be supportive.

Presumably @Meruem she won't be alone in a flat, she'll be with her partner?

@Meruem we are reading the thread quite differently then and I suppose it depends if you place your adult DDs happiness above your own.

Yes if DD gets a flat she may end up resenting the OP, but at least it will encourage her to look after her DC. If DD stays then OP will definitely resent her and it's hard not to look after your own GC when that's the societal expectation from everyone else in the house and wider.

Actually baffled by some of the responses here. Surely if you aren’t ready to move out you definitely are not ready to be bringing up a baby?

@ineedtogetalife

I'm sorry for you op I'm in this position. My daughter has not suffered a loss and is 10 years older. I work 40 hours a week and I am single. Her boyfriend is not pro active so it looks like her and baby will be living with me.
I am 50 and wanted to have freedom to live my life after bringing up my 4 children alone
Her life etc. But the impact on me will be hard
I'm resentful that her choice will impact the life I thought I would have.
I've done it all.,Didn't. Think I'd be doing it again at 50.
If she wants a baby she needs to provide not you.

This is the cautionary tale for OP, don’t end up in this situation.

She moves out now.

I personally wouldn’t be pushing DD out before the baby is born. This pregnancy is going to be stressful for her. She’s bound to be worried about miscarrying again. Sitting alone in a flat pregnant and anxious isn’t a position I’d want my child to be in, regardless of whether they chose it or not. Fair enough to have a plan to move out once baby is here and everything’s going well but until then I’d want to be supportive.

It'll be harder to force her out if she has a newborn baby. Of course it will. So I think the best idea is that she moves out now, in the coming weeks/couple of months.

If she's anxious then I'll do my best to support. She will always be welcome round to visit. But she's chosen to get pregnant again, so needs to process that difficult for herself even if it is hard for her

Otherwise you'll be living with a baby for the next 18 years.

This seems to summarise so many of the knee jerk horrified posts. Would be a very odd baby which stayed a baby for 18 years.

I don't really understand why the Op can't just get on with her jet setting holiday lifestyle now and what difference having a 20 year old DD at home with a baby makes to that. If she really wants to make a point she should perhaps stop waiting around for her DH to retire and go and get on with whatever it is that she wants to pursue. When I stayed with my DM for a couple of months when my DD was a baby my DM just went to work and about her life as usual. She quite liked coming home to her dinner on the table and a grand daughter to dandle on her knee.

I am in my 50s with a 10 year old. I definitely do entertain the odd fantasy of waking up footloose and fancy free to an empty house.
However it is not the 20 year old holding me back and it wouldn't be even if she had a baby. Having older siblings around makes parenting a 10 year old infinitely easier and has done since she was a baby. I have loads of friends who would say the same and regularly take advantage of built in baby / house sitters so they can enjoy adult only time away.

This seems to be far more about frustration at a DD not fulfilling her potential than it is about housing a baby. The time to throw out the DD would have been when she got a job and a boyfriend in preference to furthering her education. That ship has sailed.

I'd be telling DD right now that this plan of having a baby and staying at home isn't happening.

No ifs, no buts, no way.

So she'd better get her fucking entitled arse out there and find somewhere else's to live within the next 3 months.

Bollocks to these suggestions of "let her stay for the first year". She would never leave.

Get her out now or kiss goodbye to your planned retirement, OP.

Blunt and true.

I'd actually be furious with this. This wasn't an accident this was preplanned with the expectation that OP and her DH would bale both mother and child out.

Akin to buying a puppy when your parents say no and then crying that's 'its here now what can she do?'

OP do every thing you can to set her up in her own little nest. You can get some lovely apartments.Help her decorate it. Help her find out what benefit top ups she needs and what maternity allowance funding she will get. Help her with buying her pram, cot, clothes etc.. but I'd not budge on that she moves out.

I'd also be on the phone to this lad mum to see what she says. I doubt it she will be happy. What a pair of idiots.

I just knew she’d be proactively trying even while you told her she couldn’t stay in the house, hence suggesting you get her moved out ASAP pregnancy or not as she’s clearly not able to make mature decisions.

You really have to get her out ASAP. I’d seek legal advice as to how it works evicting adult children who don’t own the property in case she refuses to leave. You’re gonna have to be really firm here in getting her out, there’s no way she’s going to leave willingly.

@SempreSuiGeneris

Would be a very odd baby which stayed a baby for 18 years.

Deliberately obtuse here.

I don't really understand why the Op can't just get on with her jet setting holiday lifestyle now and what difference having a 20 year old DD at home with a baby makes to that.

Because she doesn’t want a baby living in the house. And that’s absolutely her prerogative. OP knows she will bear the brunt of the fall out.

Again, you sound another who is jealous of OP. These snarky references to her ‘jet set lifestyle’ are very illuminating.

I also think it’s kinder in the long run to get her moved out while she’s still in the early stages of pregnancy.

She might decide to take a different path once the reality of actually supporting herself kicks in. And it would be wise for her to have that option while it’s still early. I wouldn’t want her staying past the first trimester. You need to give her a deadline now.

[quote stackemhigh]@SempreSuiGeneris

Would be a very odd baby which stayed a baby for 18 years.

Deliberately obtuse here.

I don't really understand why the Op can't just get on with her jet setting holiday lifestyle now and what difference having a 20 year old DD at home with a baby makes to that.

Because she doesn’t want a baby living in the house. And that’s absolutely her prerogative. OP knows she will bear the brunt of the fall out.

Again, you sound another who is jealous of OP. These snarky references to her ‘jet set lifestyle’ are very illuminating.[/quote]
It’s hard to believe there are actual people on here invested in trying to persuade OP to have her adult child and new grandchild living with her. I sense they haven’t thought through the reality of that. It would be nigh on impossible for OP not to end up being relied on for childcare. DD sounds like the type to try get her mum to care for the baby overnight once she’s exhausted. OP would become like a second mother with the immaturity of her DD. She doesn’t want to be living with a baby and that’s fine. She’s already going above and beyond letting her adult child live with her while she works part time!

@ChangePart1 you’re absolutely right. The dd is already trying to ride roughshod over OP’s wishes, imagine how much worse it will be with a baby!

The manipulation and tantrums will increase tenfold once dd has the stress of a baby to deal with no father present and you can bet anything dd has been doing around the house will stop.

In my experience people this entitled get more so, and a baby will just compound it.

@checkyourpops

I personally wouldn’t be pushing DD out before the baby is born. This pregnancy is going to be stressful for her. She’s bound to be worried about miscarrying again. Sitting alone in a flat pregnant and anxious isn’t a position I’d want my child to be in, regardless of whether they chose it or not. Fair enough to have a plan to move out once baby is here and everything’s going well but until then I’d want to be supportive.

It'll be harder to force her out if she has a newborn baby. Of course it will. So I think the best idea is that she moves out now, in the coming weeks/couple of months.

If she's anxious then I'll do my best to support. She will always be welcome round to visit. But she's chosen to get pregnant again, so needs to process that difficult for herself even if it is hard for her

Absolutely, OP.

If you don't get her out very quickly she will absolutely ruin any plans you might have. She clearly has zero respect for anyone else and cares only for her own wishes.

I can barely believe the entitlement of this young woman!

I'm also staggered at how some on this thread are vilifying you for having your own hopes and dreams.

@checkyourpops

I personally wouldn’t be pushing DD out before the baby is born. This pregnancy is going to be stressful for her. She’s bound to be worried about miscarrying again. Sitting alone in a flat pregnant and anxious isn’t a position I’d want my child to be in, regardless of whether they chose it or not. Fair enough to have a plan to move out once baby is here and everything’s going well but until then I’d want to be supportive.

It'll be harder to force her out if she has a newborn baby. Of course it will. So I think the best idea is that she moves out now, in the coming weeks/couple of months.

If she's anxious then I'll do my best to support. She will always be welcome round to visit. But she's chosen to get pregnant again, so needs to process that difficult for herself even if it is hard for her

I think this is absolutely fair, OP. You can support her to start her new life as a parent in her own place, it can be framed as a really positive opportunity for her. She has to grow up and enjoy her independence, with support from loving parents who also have their own lives and plans and independence.