Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

@SempreSuiGeneris

Already having an 11 year old tying you down is very relevant.

It is not just the DD who would be uprooted and disregarded if the parents downsize now. If the plan is to wait until DS is at Uni I would advise against this also because you end up sending your teenager to Uni with no Home base for security. Even if you have room for them it won't be their home and you will have made very clear they are no longer a priority.

Therefore the downsizing decision would have to be a decade away and hence somewhat irrelevant in a consideration of whether to support the DD having a baby now.

I do wonder why parents of 2 DC have a 5 bedroom house too big for them in the first place. Reading between the lines I suspect the DH is significantly older - hence nearing retirement - and there are grown up step children in the background.

Pretty sure people move house all the time without major trauma inflicted on their children 😂

No the downsizing would not ‘HAVE to be a decadeaway’.

Why do people think they can make these decisions for OP? It’s so infantilising.

@moynomore

*What's your time scale OP, for this downsize travel round the world plan?

You have an 11 year old. You want to downsize while he's in secondary school and move to another area?*

This is so irrelevant. Why does the OP need to defend her not wanting her teenager to have a baby in her house. It's so ridiculous. Who cares when or why she wants to downsize? It's a red herring here.

But OP herself has sighted these exact things as part of the reasoning for being so against her DD having a baby there. So it must be relevant? We wouldn't know about it all otherwise.

She talks as if it's imminent. I have 4 DCs (oldest is late 20s youngest is 7). 3 are still at home. We're all different, but i'm just not counting the years till youngest is 18 i guess.

I get you OP. I have little ones at the moment and I love being a mum, however our lives are crazy. My kids aren't badly behaved for their ages, but they still wake up early, shout at the table during meal times, cry and tantrum, break and spill things accidentally. Their toys take up the living room and there are baby gates everywhere. Now that's fine for me and DH because we are their parents. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to enjoy it. Their grandparents love them too but their limit is a few hours visiting with me each week.

@me4real

The only thing that soothes the grief is another baby

@Blossomtoes No. And in this teenager's position it's not a feasible decision.

Grief works to its own time scale but many people work through it without latching on to the idea of having a 'replacement' baby, especially when the time isn't right.

It’s not a “replacement” baby. My son was stillborn at 34 weeks. Literally the only thing that gave me any hope or comfort was the prospect of another pregnancy. The time I hit rock bottom was being told it would probably kill me. Biology is very, very powerful and it knows exactly what it’s doing.

‘I do wonder why parents of 2 DC have a 5 bedroom house too big for them in the first place. Reading between the lines I suspect the DH is significantly older - hence nearing retirement - and there are grown up step children in the background.’

Maybe because they wanted a 5 bedroom house and could afford it?

The OP has two children to consider. Maybe her 11yo DS wouldn't want a baby in the house. Maybe she and her DH want to do some trips with the DS now he's old enough for long-haul travel. The OP is entitled to do what is in the interests of her own minor child rather than prioritising her adult child's foolish decision to start a family she can't support.

The OP is entitled to do what is in the interests of her own minor child rather than prioritising her adult child's foolish decision to start a family she can't support.

She also knows what's likely to happen in that scenario - she'll be left looking after the baby.

With OP's updates on how persistent she is, that will definitely end up happening - the 'you must not care about me or GC if you won't let me stay' will turn into 'you don't care about me unless you do all the childcare.'

Sorry to say but regardless of the grief - which I acknowledge is major - DD is clearly still not mature enough to take on this responsibility. She's thinking of herself only - not of what she's taking on.

@Blossomtoes

I think casually opinionating on here about how a mother deals with the grief of losing her baby sounds crass and actually ill-educated.

Advising counceling for the DD is the closest any of us should sail to it here. The cries of not feasible, dealing with it and it happened to x y z and they didn't feel like this are very sad to see.

@SempreSuiGeneris

Already having an 11 year old tying you down is very relevant.

It is not just the DD who would be uprooted and disregarded if the parents downsize now. If the plan is to wait until DS is at Uni I would advise against this also because you end up sending your teenager to Uni with no Home base for security. Even if you have room for them it won't be their home and you will have made very clear they are no longer a priority.

Therefore the downsizing decision would have to be a decade away and hence somewhat irrelevant in a consideration of whether to support the DD having a baby now.

I do wonder why parents of 2 DC have a 5 bedroom house too big for them in the first place. Reading between the lines I suspect the DH is significantly older - hence nearing retirement - and there are grown up step children in the background.

Maybe they have a 5 bed place because they can afford it and want one? Admittedly I’m not in the UK and our houses are generally heaps bigger, but mine is 5 beds, 2 living rooms, 2 bathrooms, double garage and an office, and that is pretty bog standard where I am. I think people appreciate space, and even if OP has step kids it’s not relevant to her post.

Biology is very, very powerful and it knows exactly what it’s doing.

Thankfully so does OP.

@checkyourpops

I'm really sorry for any offensive I've caused, regarding nhs admin. Reality is it isn't well paid at all, and she's part time but has no reason not to be FT? It's just not really a job you hope for your DC, is it? She had so many good results from A Level, I was shocked when she announced she'd be working admin at our local hospital

So many people in the NHS who have progressed from admin roles to senior positions FYI. I would support my daughter and she could even continue to stay with us if we had the space.

In other words, fine to suggest opinions on how OP deals with this - not fine - IMO - to say the DDs reaction is ridiculous.

Her circumstances are not good.
Her feelings are perfectly valid.

The problem is how to reconcile these things. Plonking SENSIBLE FACTS everywhere isn't going to change anything any time soon.

Thank you @Laiste. You have to have lived through this to really get it.

I think casually opinionating on here about how a mother deals with the grief of losing her baby sounds crass and actually ill-educated.

Advising counceling for the DD is the closest any of us should sail to it here.

Counselling is exactly what I'm saying she should get if she is not coping with grief, as I'm sure everyone would agree.

@Blossomtoes You were presumably in a material/financial position to try for another baby. This woman isn't. Yes the desire to have a baby could be powerful, but common sense should have an input too. She can always try for another baby after she's settled in her own place.

The cries of not feasible, dealing with it and it happened to x y z and they didn't feel like this are very sad to see.

I'm sure a lot of us felt like this, it's not necessarily that we didn't feel it, but if we weren't in a reasonable position to do it, we didn't do it, because it wouldn'tve been the right thing to do.

You were presumably in a material/financial position to try for another baby

It wouldn’t have made any difference. Your emotions and instincts don’t give a shit whether you live on gruel in a slum or dine on peacock in a palace. You feel what you feel. What part of this are you refusing to see?

As it happens we were as poor as church mice, like most young parents in the 70s but it’s irrelevant.

@Laiste

In other words, fine to suggest opinions on how OP deals with this - not fine - IMO - to say the DDs reaction is ridiculous.

Her circumstances are not good.
Her feelings are perfectly valid.

The problem is how to reconcile these things. Plonking SENSIBLE FACTS everywhere isn't going to change anything any time soon.

No one has said dd's reaction to her loss is ridiculous, everyone has been on board with OP supporting her through the loss and homing dd and unplanned baby until she got on her feet.

No one has said DD shouldn't TTC if she plans on moving out.

But dd's decision to have a planned baby and expect to raise it in her parents' house is ridiculous, and her attempts to present her parents with a fait accompli i.e. another baby is even more ridiculous.

It wouldn’t have made any difference. Your emotions and instincts don’t give a shit whether you live on gruel in a slum or dine on peacock in a palace. You feel what you feel. What part of this are you refusing to see?

It does make a difference if your plan is to impose the consequences of following your emotions and instincts on a third party who has had no say in your decisions.

The argument of "you couldn't possibly know how it feels if you haven't experienced this grief" isn't always going to be a good basis when it comes to practical decision making or ethical dilemmas.

What if a woman who'd lost a baby was also left infertile or menopausal? Would we just say well that's it then, you can't have another baby so there's nothing else that can be done for you or would we be looking at better ways to help her through the grief?

Thanks for completely - and I suspect deliberately - missing the point @Jellybabiesforbreakfast.

What if a woman who'd lost a baby was also left infertile or menopausal? Would we just say well that's it then, you can't have another baby so there's nothing else that can be done for you

That’s exactly what happened to me. 🤷‍♀️

It wouldn’t have made any difference. Your emotions and instincts don’t give a shit whether you live on gruel in a slum or dine on peacock in a palace. You feel what you feel. What part of this are you refusing to see?

From my POV I completely understand because I went through it myself. The pain was overwhelming to say the least.

But I didn't have another baby then. Because I could still through the pain see it would be irresponsible and I didn't have the means to care for that baby.

When I had another baby - when it was the right time - it healed a lot of that hurt. When I was in the position to have a good life and give one to my child.

I think most people on the thread can see and sympathise with the grief - and many have been through it too.

But it doesn't mean it's ok to through all rationality out the window and bring a baby into the world without the means or stability (emotional or material) to provide for them. And it's definitely not ok to do so with the idea that your parents will clean up the mess.

@SempreSuiGeneris

Already having an 11 year old tying you down is very relevant.

It is not just the DD who would be uprooted and disregarded if the parents downsize now. If the plan is to wait until DS is at Uni I would advise against this also because you end up sending your teenager to Uni with no Home base for security. Even if you have room for them it won't be their home and you will have made very clear they are no longer a priority.

Therefore the downsizing decision would have to be a decade away and hence somewhat irrelevant in a consideration of whether to support the DD having a baby now.

I do wonder why parents of 2 DC have a 5 bedroom house too big for them in the first place. Reading between the lines I suspect the DH is significantly older - hence nearing retirement - and there are grown up step children in the background.

OP isn't talking about downsizing to a house that's too small for the current family.

Loving your hilarious presumptions about why they have a 5-bed house. We have a 6-bed (well, 5 + office) and there are 2 of us now DD is away. Never been more than the 3 of us - no step-dc - and we have no intention of downsizing. My brother lives alone in 5-bed house and has no kids. He also works abroad for months at a time so would probably manage fine with a 1-bed apartment.

People can, and do, have houses according to what they want, not need, when they're paying for it themselves. OP now wants a smaller house.

@Blossomtoes. I find the argument that grief entitles you to disregard the valid feelings of everyone around you and impose a baby on them tenuous.

Sounds like she's been through a horrific experience and needs some therapy

Does she know any kids or babies?

I wonder if she spent more time around babies and toddlers, would she change her mind!

Where do you live? A few hours with my 3 year old would sort her out