Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

@TheresHope

Mumsnet: grandparents are entitled to their peace and don’t owe you babysitting or childcare! Your kids, your responsibility!!

Also mumsnet: Why won’t you let your adult daughter plan a baby and live at home and you fund her lifestyle, you have space, you’re soooooo horrible!!

Honestly. This place sometimes!!

I was thinking exactly the same thing!

@TheresHope

Mumsnet: grandparents are entitled to their peace and don’t owe you babysitting or childcare! Your kids, your responsibility!!

Also mumsnet: Why won’t you let your adult daughter plan a baby and live at home and you fund her lifestyle, you have space, you’re soooooo horrible!!

Honestly. This place sometimes!!

I was just going to say the same thing! Double standards.

I'm quite shocked at some of these replies. I had to double check this was Mumsnet as most of the replies on here have been very childish.

Accidental pregnancy is one thing. Planning a baby is another thing. I've had a miscarriage before and though I conceived my second child, it will never take away the loss of my existing one. I had to keep reminding to myself that no baby can be a replacement for the one I lost.

But anyway, OP you are not being unreasonable. We all want more for our children, being in a NHS admin job is not well paid- the NHS is not well paid anyway. Planning a baby at 19? Why! This is speaking from someone who was a teen parent. There is so much more to life than having babies. When I had my eldest and he was a lone child for a while, a number of people kept asking me "when are you going to have your next child? Don't you want a sibling for DS" and time and time again I told them that I wanted to enjoy my life.

Being a teen/young parent is hard. It was even difficult with a feckless father and I'm sorry to say OP, from what you are saying about your DD's boyfriend he doesn't sound all that committed. She would likely be facing this alone.

@TheresHope

Mumsnet: grandparents are entitled to their peace and don’t owe you babysitting or childcare! Your kids, your responsibility!!

Also mumsnet: Why won’t you let your adult daughter plan a baby and live at home and you fund her lifestyle, you have space, you’re soooooo horrible!!

Honestly. This place sometimes!!

I know. The only part I think op should play in this is helping her daughter get therapy.

But I would point blank refuse to assist in the decision in having a baby while not working full time, not having their own home (bought or rented) or living with their partner. If you think you're capable, then out you go into the real world and cope, like everyone else does. But understand that it will be extremely difficult and if you plan to rely on your partner with no marriage, then that decision can come back to bite you in the ass horribly, as many have found out. I wouldn't help anyone get themselves into that situation. It's not helpful in the slightest.

This is a very sad situation, your poor DD. If she really wants another baby offer her your full support but be very honest about the role you are willing to play.

Might be worth sitting down with her and making a list complete with costs of what a typical week or month would look like including rent/digs and bills and nappies and formula and wipes etc. Do the same with childcare options and include any you are willing to provide. It may be a bit of a reality check for her.

I hope your daughter gets the help and support she needs

@checkyourpops

Thank for (most!) of the replies. I had a proper chat with DH last night, and we came to the agreement that we'd support DD to put a rent deposit together if she becomes pregnant, but she can't live here. He's also agreed it really is time to think of selling up soon

We went and spoke to DD, said we absolutely feel for her and we are sorry she's in this position, it must be hard. We said we support her choice if she wants another baby, but, it means moving out. She broke down into tears asking why?! Since she could've stayed here with the last baby. I said that wouldn't have been long term, and this is an active decision of hers. If she wants to become a mum then she needs to find accommodation too. She told us to get out and said we're heartless and unsupportive. I said to her about her boyfriend, why hadn't she even asked if she could have him stay with us too? She said she just wants her baby! Boyfriend will see new baby whenever

I repeated what we said about the housing and left it at that. Obviously not spoken since because it's so early, but DH is getting ready for work and seems very calm and happy about our choice

You've done very well here! DH is on the same page as you, wonderful!

Sorry, but be firm with your DD. I have a cousin who got pregnant in her late teens. Even though she did move out at her mother's insistence, her parents (my uncle and aunt) are the ones doing the majority of the childcare AND paying off debts due to her bad decisions. In this scenario, it is easier for the father to leave because the parents provide everything. He left. Then years later, her DC2's father left. They were both arseholes to begin with but my cousin doesn't need to worry about who will provide, because her parents always will. She went on holiday to meet a guy and missed the first day of her child's school, it was my uncle who agreed to take him to school. I think her parents feel guilty because she cried and called them unsupportive when she got pregnant in her teens. It's manipulative, they have always been supportive but tried to advise her not to get pregnant. Turns out their concerns were justified.

I would not want this life for my own child. You should support DD through bereavement, but if she chooses to have a child it's on her to take ownership of it all.

Sit her down and talk about how rights come with responsibilities.

Eg. Right to have a baby comes with responsibility to house/feed/clothe that baby yourself.

She is trying to avail herself of all the rights without taking the responsibilities. Fine to want to go and be an adult, but if she is going to do that she needs to actually do it and support herself and any family she brings into this world.

I think some posters have got carried away thinking about the grief of miscarriage for the DD - and confused and conflated it. That’s the only reason I can think of for posters saying just support the girl whatever she wants - she works part-time she’s a fully fledged independent adult!

I know several women who were desperate to have children very young and did so.

As an example, one now has nine children by three different husbands and one boyfriend. She dotes on those kids, is a very loving mother, would give her last breath for them.

General consensus from a bunch of therapy as an adult was she has been desperately searching for the loving supportive mother child relationship that having a cold hearted narc for a step mother and a birth mother who abandoned her to the evil step mother full time didn't provide.

Her little sister, same story, three kids, one boyfriend and one husband and several miscarriages.

Evil step mother's bio child went the same way, four kids but only one husband because she lucked out and found a great bloke. She was the youngest and also used to do the housework and look after everybody else's children.

I knew the step mother, saw her actions, heard how she talked about "the girls" and I can well believe the reasoning for all having several children young is the same. A search for love that she did not have capacity in her cold dark selfish heart and no desire to provide.

I'm not saying OP is the same but it does make me wonder at the wider backstory here, what with the disrespectful dismissive tone she appears to reserve for the daughter.

@SilverGoblin

I know several women who were desperate to have children very young and did so.

As an example, one now has nine children by three different husbands and one boyfriend. She dotes on those kids, is a very loving mother, would give her last breath for them.

General consensus from a bunch of therapy as an adult was she has been desperately searching for the loving supportive mother child relationship that having a cold hearted narc for a step mother and a birth mother who abandoned her to the evil step mother full time didn't provide.

Her little sister, same story, three kids, one boyfriend and one husband and several miscarriages.

Evil step mother's bio child went the same way, four kids but only one husband because she lucked out and found a great bloke. She was the youngest and also used to do the housework and look after everybody else's children.

I knew the step mother, saw her actions, heard how she talked about "the girls" and I can well believe the reasoning for all having several children young is the same. A search for love that she did not have capacity in her cold dark selfish heart and no desire to provide.

I'm not saying OP is the same but it does make me wonder at the wider backstory here, what with the disrespectful dismissive tone she appears to reserve for the daughter.

Wow, bloody hell. That's really unfair! My daughter has been show nothing but love from a very young age.

DS included. It isn't even about the amazing places they've been, or the opportunities we've been glad to help them peruse - But the time. Open, honest talks. Loving connections. Lots of cuddles etc even now. DD has always told me pretty much everything - Granted that's a bit different since losing her DD. There are some things she won't share but she's a fully grown adult.

This whole TTC at 19 thing has been so hard for me to process but I have, and we've offered practical, financial help here

@Rejoiningperson

I think some posters have got carried away thinking about the grief of miscarriage for the DD - and confused and conflated it. That’s the only reason I can think of for posters saying just support the girl whatever she wants - she works part-time she’s a fully fledged independent adult!

Agreed! Take out the tragic miscarriage and write 19yr old wants a baby whilst at home with no financial security and a non committed bf the answers may be more aligned

I do not agree that the OP has a “disrespectful dismissive tone” at all.

It’s a parent’s duty to ensure their offspring launch themselves, fully informed of every pitfall, into adulthood and complete independence. It’s hard enough for a teen to launch herself these days - to earn enough to pay for housing, food and utilities without the enormous cost and inconvenience of a baby too….and seemingly, as a single mum.
Planning another pregnancy behind the back of the parent who kindly supported her through the accidental first pregnancy really is blindly taking advantage….no matter how distressed this 19 year old was to lose her accidental pregnancy. The DD simply hasn’t thought it through and now OP is enabling her to get to grips with the facts. Quite right. That’s what a loving mother does for her DD.
I appalled that anybody would encourage this teen to plan to have a baby without a thought for the responsibilities. It’s madness.
OP would be letting her daughter down to allow it.

I have nothing but sympathy regarding the daughter's loss, but there is NO WAY in hell I would be "supportive" of my daughter's decision to TTC at 19 while she's living in my house working part time with a partner she doesn't really want to live with. No way. And she would absolutely know I wasn't supportive.

Agreed! Take out the tragic miscarriage and write 19yr old wants a baby whilst at home with no financial security and a non committed bf the answers may be more aligned

You can’t take that out of the equation though.

It’s fundamentally why the DD is TTC at 19. So taking it out of the equation makes no sense whatsoever.

This isn’t a silly girl who isn’t thinking - this is a grieving mother who had to birth her baby after it died. What she wants to do is a natural and instinctive reaction and is why the OP can’t just take it out of the equation in how she deals with it.

That’s not to say she should go out buying her DD OPKs and folic acid, but the people saying it should be taken out of the equation or ignored are clueless.

I didn’t perceive any dismissive or disrespectful tone at all from the OP. I just perceived she was upset because her daughter is hurting and trying to help and support her. If my 19 year old daughter got decent a levels but was happy working part time in a job with no prospects, I’d be disappointed too and try to talk to her about lifestyle expectations. Supporting your child doesn’t mean agreeing with everything they do and some children who have had quite privileged upbringings have no idea of the hard work and ambition which enables such a lifestyle-they just think it happens. She is right to discourage her from an intentional pregnancy and get her to see that she will enjoy motherhood far more when approaching it from a mature and stable position. She obviously cares very deeply for her daughter.

@JustLyra but it's both things. And I say that having been in a very similar situation.

And she wants a baby to heal her hurt, but remember this is an actual baby who will come into the world and need love and stability from someone who had a baby with no plan or preparedness, to heal their grief.

Is that the right way to be brought into the world?

@JustLyra

Agreed! Take out the tragic miscarriage and write 19yr old wants a baby whilst at home with no financial security and a non committed bf the answers may be more aligned

You can’t take that out of the equation though.

It’s fundamentally why the DD is TTC at 19. So taking it out of the equation makes no sense whatsoever.

This isn’t a silly girl who isn’t thinking - this is a grieving mother who had to birth her baby after it died. What she wants to do is a natural and instinctive reaction and is why the OP can’t just take it out of the equation in how she deals with it.

That’s not to say she should go out buying her DD OPKs and folic acid, but the people saying it should be taken out of the equation or ignored are clueless.

Too right. My jaw dropped when I read that. The loss of her daughter is pivotal to the situation. I’m staggered at the complete inability of some posters to comprehend how awful and consuming her grief must be.

[quote georgarina]@JustLyra but it's both things. And I say that having been in a very similar situation.

And she wants a baby to heal her hurt, but remember this is an actual baby who will come into the world and need love and stability from someone who had a baby with no plan or preparedness, to heal their grief.

Is that the right way to be brought into the world?[/quote]
There’s nothing in the OP’s posts to suggest the DD wouldn’t be a good mother who adored her baby. There are much worse ways.

Now obviously she needs to find somewhere else to live because her Mum doesn’t agree, which is fine, but people getting ridiculously dramatic about the situation doesn’t help anyone - the Op or her DD.

Babies are brought into the world in much worse situations than having a mother who desperately wants them, who has a secure job with good maternity rights and in a country where she will (regardless of where she lives) get help toward childcare costs.

Ignoring the fact that she has this yearning for a reason isn’t remotely helpful.

Too right. My jaw dropped when I read that. The loss of her daughter is pivotal to the situation. I’m staggered at the complete inability of some posters to comprehend how awful and consuming her grief must be.

Exactly. Birthing her baby would have been so traumatic for her. No matter if she’s 19, 29, 49, skint or a multi millionaire.

It cannot, and should not, be discarded so callously as some have on here.

This isn’t a silly girl who isn’t thinking - this is a grieving mother who had to birth her baby after it died.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. DD doesn't get a free to make a silly decision at her parents' expense just because she is grieving.

No one is stopping her moving out and having a baby with her partner.

In theory I wouldn’t be supportive. In practice, of course I would be, what else can you do. But I’d make it clear that I wasn’t bringing up the baby.

Making a bad decision because of trauma doesn't make it any less of a bad decision. It just makes it more understandable.

I get exactly why you are upset and want her to wait but this might be the reality right now. Personally I'd support them if it happens because you can't control, ultimately, what your DD decides to do with her own body. Stuff happened with one of my siblings around that age that is so awful that right now what you are typing reads like a beautiful fairy story to me if I were to compare the two. Which of course isn't meant to be a race to the bottom of awfulness comment, just a reminder that you might end up with a beloved grandchild in your lovely home, and in the grand scheme of things, it's not ultimately a bad thing. Your DD will have a rude awakening too very quickly and realise why you were so against it & then most likely independently recognise how right you were, but if you are too adamant right now, it might drive a permanent wedge between you both.

@Clymene

Making a bad decision because of trauma doesn't make it any less of a bad decision. It just makes it more understandable.

This.

Having a planned baby to easy the pain of an accidental pregnancy that ended sadly at 19 is a 18+ year commitment by a young woman in pain.

A very very immature young woman who wants a baby with a boyfriend she doesn't even want to live with, because she still lives at home rent free while working part time.

She wants to continue to stay home with mum and dad because she hasn't any interest in making that leap into adulthood but she still wants to play dollies with a new baby toy.

Her miscarriage is awful for her, just awful, but she no more sounds ready to raise a baby with a boyfriend that she doesn't want to live with.

The OP sounds like a wonderful mother who knows her child, who wants a child.🙄

The OP is trying to prevent a clusterfxxk in my view.

Why do people keep banging on about her wanting to live rent free when the OP stated the reason she pays no keep is because the OP’s husband won’t allow it?

By all means judge on the situation, but people making shit up based solely on her age rather than what the Op has actually said about her in terms of her contribution to the home says far more about you than the young woman in question.