Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

@Csx99

Erm, excuse me. She's asking for people's thoughts on a public forum and what they would do in that situation - I'm saying my personal opinion and that PERSONALLY I can't see the issue - not saying her feelings shouldn't be taken into account, I'm merely voicing my opinion like she's asked for

What is your own situation that you can’t see the issue? Are you housing an adult daughter and her baby and is it going swimmingly?

@rattlemehearties

I can't tell whether your high level of disgust and disrespect for your DD is noticed by her - I assume it is as you're so blatant about it here? It makes me so sad to read this. She is her own person carving her own life out. Plenty of people have children young and go onto have a career... there's not a "right order" to do everything. I agree that she needs to think ahead to where she and the growing child will live in future after the immediate baby phase, but that will come in time. Your DH seems a lovely supportive father who wants his DD to be happy.

I think that there IS a right order to do these things in - at least in terms of making enough income to support a child yourself.

If you can't afford to house, clothe and feed a child at the bare minimum, you probably should wait until you can. Otherwise you're expecting somebody else to pay for your chosen lifestyle.

Yanbu

Daughter can ttc as she wishes. She doesn't get to live in your house with a baby.

I wouldn't want this for her either. Nor will any of mine be living at home with a baby. Why? Because it's my home and I don't want that!

@checkyourpops I think you're right tbh.

I understand your daughter is hurting and that's so sad and she obviously needs support for what she's been through, but it's the wrong reason to try for a new baby. Babies need to be loved in their own right, and not as a way to fill the void of a loss. I also agree with you that she should move out if she wants a child. They are so much responsibility and take up a lot of time, energy and money. I honestly don't see why you should have that responsibility and change of lifestyle forced upon you in your own home.

Well done OP. It's one thing to rearrange everyone's plans for an unplanned pregnancy and quite another to do it for a planned one.

It sounds like your daughter ought to move out anyway. I think she has a lot of growing up to do.

(And for anyone who accuses me of being heartless, I've had a second trimester miscarriage)

It's not just about careers.

Women who have kids very young and unmarried can go on to have good careers--although frankly it usually requires a lot of auxiliary support from GPs, which the OP has said she does not want to provide. Women who do things this way do at least have a long uninterrupted stretch of career development ahead of them, which can be good.

The big issue though is relationships, and there is no easy way round this one. The chance of these two 19yos ending up in a permanent successful relationship is really low. So being practical, we are talking about accepting life as a young single parent. Living a celibate life with no dating is not going to be much fun when you are in your 20s and your friends are all having fun dating, and most women want do to meet a lifelong partner. But even with a lot of GP support, having a child will seriously cramp her dating style, and a high % of men will not date a woman with a young child from a previous relationship (sorry, just being blunt). Dating when you have a young kid is never not complicated because of issues about bringing in mums-boyfriends and stepfathers--there are always huge worries about introducing BFs and kids, making sure people get on, worrying about "my kids might get attached to him and then he leaves" worrying about guys who are cold, impatient or even abusive towards children. Blended family dramas aplenty in most cases. And by the time the child is in its teens and dating gets easier, mum'll then be in the age bracket (early-mid 30s) where dating as a single woman gets harder for women in general.

Trying to help a young woman who unexpectedly gets pregnant unmarried and at a young age, to do her best to make the most of her situation, is one thing. But actively planning this? It's such a stupid idea.

I completely agree with you OP. It’s one thing if she accidentally fell pregnant, and then you supported them to become independent and she maybe lived with you initially until they got on their feet. Quite another thing for them to be TTC in this scenario. So I can definitely see why you are not on board with this at all!

Some posters seem to be conflating the two, eg “why wouldn’t you let your pregnant daughter stay with you if you have the room” - the case if an unplanned pregnancy had caught them by surprise, NOT the case if they are ttc. Totally reasonable of you to expect them to have a mature adult plan to do this independently if this is what they want.

And I would also be disappointed if my 19 year old was working part time with no plans for progression - make hay while the sun shines - your youth should be about putting the time and effort in to set you up for the future, whether that’s working lots to save a deposit, studying, or even travelling for a cultural experience - part time admin work without it being part of a plan of action would disappoint me too. Fine if full time and she was maximising her earnings in her role though. It’s not so much the role itself but the very very relaxed attitude for a 19 year old with no other commitments requiring part time work.

I had my DD at 23, completely unplanned.

My parents where supportive but made it clear that I couldn't live with them once my DC needed their own bed as they just didn't have the space (they did but they just needed me to be independent)

My boyfriend at the time (eventually husband now ex-husband) was supportive and we moved in to our own place 6 weeks before DD was born.

I feel for your DD having lost a baby but I don't think you're UR at all.

My DD is the most loved little girl ever, by both my DPs, my Ex-PILs and me and ExH, it can and does work out.

My mum is fab and very loving but was extremely stroppy when we (dh I and baby) were forced to live with them for 2 months when a house sale fell through and the rental we planned for that time period fell through the day before we were due to move in as well. We were at their house for 6 weeks longest 6 weeks of my life! My mother is very supportive but has boundaries which you cross at your peril! You need to channel that!

Who are you to judge whether she can afford it ? I'm guessing she maybe doesn't have many outgoings currently if living at home ?

If she's living in her parents home, a correct accounting of her outgoings would include her fair share of the cost of that. For example, if she's one of three adults living in a house that would cost £1800 to rent, then she needs to be paying £600 to her parents, before we even start talking about utilities. From the sound of it the total bill would be more than she earns. Even without a baby, she can't afford the lifestyle she's living. "Afford" doesn't mean "can cover cashflow for those of my expenses that aren't being subsidised by someone else."

Exactly how does your DD envisage supporting herself and the potential baby? In a minimum wage, pt job I can't see her being able to afford childcare.

So I'm guess that she's planning to either give up work and be supported 100% by you and your DH indefinitely, or is expecting you to provide the childcare element?

Personally I think you did the right thing in drawing a line in the sand - she now knows from BOTH of you what her options will be if she chooses to continue down that road.

I think you need to support her, but find ways to encourage better planning.

Where does moving out fit into her life plans? Does she see herself and bf living as a family eventually? Is marriage on the cards one day? Would she prefer to live alone with baby? Lots of couples do this.

What opportunities are there to go full time, so she qualifies for a more substantial Mat leave? What are her plans for childcare before the 30 hours free kicks in?

Working 4 days a week in the NHS is a proper job.

It is, but the job that the OPs DDs is in, doesn’t pay enough for her to support herself (not to mention a baby too).

I’d be worried that once she’s pregnant or has the baby it’d be nigh on practically impossible to get rid of her. You’d have to evict her somehow, if you own the property. Not sure what the law is on that or whether you and DH would have the stomach to actually turf her out kicking and screaming.

Sad to say but her judgment here is so compromised I would be looking at getting her to find her own place very quickly instead of waiting and hoping she doesn’t get pregnant. When she clearly plans and wants to. You might want to start looking into the legality of moving her out if she won’t go willingly.

What there is here is massive lack of empathy. My second son was stillborn at 34 weeks when I was 23. It broke me. Fortunately in those days there was no therapy or counselling, it was acknowledged that grief after a loss took time to process and I was allowed to work through it in my own time.

There hasn’t been a massive lack of sympathy. People have been on board with OP supporting dd through her loss and indeed supporting the baby had it not miscarried because the baby was unplanned.

But being empathetic to the dd should not mean agreeing to her plan and having a miscarriage does not give anyone a free pass to get whatever they want at the expense of other people.

@stackemhigh

What there is here is massive lack of empathy. My second son was stillborn at 34 weeks when I was 23. It broke me. Fortunately in those days there was no therapy or counselling, it was acknowledged that grief after a loss took time to process and I was allowed to work through it in my own time.

There hasn’t been a massive lack of sympathy. People have been on board with OP supporting dd through her loss and indeed supporting the baby had it not miscarried because the baby was unplanned.

But being empathetic to the dd should not mean agreeing to her plan and having a miscarriage does not give anyone a free pass to get whatever they want at the expense of other people.

Thanks for chopping off the most relevant part of my post:

One of the bitterest moments was being told it would be suicidal to attempt another pregnancy, the prospect of trying again was the only thing keeping me going up to that point. So I entirely understand how DD feels - and no amount of therapy or counselling will change that - it’s nature’s way of coping with loss and grief.

we talk about her baby daughter all the time in this house. Even DS speaks of her. She is a part of our family and her memory is cherished
I think your daughter is quite understandably reluctant to leave the safety of this haven that you have created for her
the baby that she lost is so much a part of her home with you that it may seem too much of a wrench to start again in a new home. Even so starting again in a new home might be a thing that she needs to do in order to move forward with her life.

@faithfulbird20

You sound very controlling and mean.

Forget I can't believe she's doing this to her and us. I can't believe you behaved the way you did as her mother. Let's hope she'll be more supportive to her children than you are.

What nonsense

Thanks for chopping off the most relevant part of my post:

One of the bitterest moments was being told it would be suicidal to attempt another pregnancy, the prospect of trying again was the only thing keeping me going up to that point. So I entirely understand how DD feels - and no amount of therapy or counselling will change that - it’s nature’s way of coping with loss and grief.

I’m so sorry that happened to you

Thank you @stackemhigh. He’d be 44 now. I still think of him every day.

You sound rather judgmental of her choices. There's nothing wrong with an admin job in the NHS and it's up to her who she chooses to date. You imply you don't think her boyfriend is good enough for her, but thats not your decision to make.

I can understand why you don't want her to have the baby at your home, but I get the feeling that you don't quite understand what it's like to lose a baby. I've been through something similar and my overwhelming desire was to be pregnant again. If it was my DD then I would support her with her decision to have the baby at home.

It's up to you of course, but I feel like you're in danger of really damaging your relationship with her if you continue to behave in this way towards her.

She sounds a bit entitled to me and immature. I agree with you OP.

The DD probably didn't get any say when her younger brother arrived just about the time she was growing into her teens. Her DM completely changed the dynamic of her growing into adulthood by having her kid brother.

I can completely understand why you wouldn't want a newborn in the house again, it would massively change the dynamic and you'd inevitably either end up doing quite a lot of the care or get really irritated by your DD and her partner not pulling their weight etc. I think the big thing for me would be the inevitable impact on your DS.