Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

I think its a serious matter too @checkyourpops.However I dont think speaking to the boyfriend about it is over stepping the mark he might not even know they are TTC and not be very happy about it.

The whole situation is a mess. Speak to your dh and tell him this is not something you agree with, its not fair on you. This wasn't the plan you discussed.

Creating another human being to fill in the void of losing a baby is always a bad idea. She needs to go back to therapy.

Her maturity levels are seriously lacking here. She chooses to work part time (because it suits her), isn't finically secure and is quite expectant to stay in the family home as she still isn't ready to branch out and be an adult. She is still behaving like a child.

The realty is that either she will insist her boyfriend moves in which means you will pick the tab up for the whole family. OR the relationship will break down because he isn't there enough or helping enough which means you will end up picking up the tab AGAIN financially and emotionally.

OP you need to get on the right page with your DH then have a very adult sit down meeting with BOTH DD and her BF. If he is in on it too then they are BOTH taking the piss.

My eldest is 25. If she told me she was pregnant and had to move back because of some kind of disaster, she would be welcomed back and supported to get back on her feet again. But this situation is just ridiculous.

My DH annoys me because 5 years ago we spoke of retiring to a little cottage or majorly downsizing when DS went to uni/turns 18. All gone to shit now though if he insists that what DD is planning is fine

So as your son is 11 you're not actually planning to downsize for another 7 years, by which time your daughter could have had the baby and stayed with you for a while until they get themselves on their feet and get their own place. It would not have to ruin your plans for the future but you could very easily ruin your relationship with your daughter if you're not careful: I think this is probably where your husbands thinking is.
It strikes me that you are just very disappointed at your DD's life choices but they are her choices to make and for what its worth I totally agree with her about university. There's nothing wrong with her taking an admin job (at least she isn't just sitting at home doing nothing) and having a baby young isn't always a disaster...it can actually work well as if you start a career after having children you don't then need to take a break from it later on.
A miscarriage at 20 weeks is a horrific experience and I think it's only natural that she wants to get pregnant again. I think you need to be a lot more supportive emotionally but make it clear that you will not provide childcare for her and you expect that she will financially support herself and the baby and will move out sooner rather than later.
From your description she sounds quite sensible and capable and I have to ask, what was the plan when she was originally pregnant? If you had agreed then that she could still live with you then she can be forgiven for assuming the same would apply.

FWIW, I think this is excellent parenting of adult kids.

What you are doing is hard, it is very hard to say common sense stuff to a traumatised 19 year old. But, if you don't do it no one will.

I am impressed by your strength and care of your family. Adding a baby into the mix is the easy option, but, not the sensible option.

@CornflowerBlueBird

Get over it? Indicative of her age?

Wow, mumsnet is the dregs. This is awful to read, I sincerely hope your Daughter never reads this OP. And I sincerely hope none of you ever lose a baby. You don’t just get over it and your age is not a factor. Disgusting comments. I am out of here.

I think the DD has a DM problem

I just lost my son in similar circumstances to your daughter and I can understand her feelings, but I have other children so it’s different but I do understand the urge to be pregnant again. The thing is she doesn’t know how hard it will be to have a baby at 19 I think that’s what op is saying and come on she should have her own place. Op I’m so sorry for your and your daughters loss.

I think I know how you are feeling. My dd was making a difficult decision whether to have a baby, (altho several other factors involved including physical disability, & future major surgery), although she has her own flat. She wasn't living with the bf.
I said my time was done, I loved her, I understood why she wanted a baby, But I was not stepping in as nanny, I was not going to look after baby when she went to work, although I would do the occasional babysit.
I wasn't going to be there at night when she was exhausted & in pain with her own health issue, do the school run & homework while she was working late.
I was not going to queue at the doctors with a sick child when she was required to work
I still hadn't "cleared the decks" as DS still at home. I was not going back to "Go" & become surrogate mother to a baby that I felt she was not aware of the difficulties in raising. I was in my 60s & honestly had had enough of the relentlessness of being a parent.
There was a lot of tears, & "I am not supporting her" type of remarks, also she was hurt as she identified my resistance as her not being capable.to which I replied it may feel like that to you now, but actually its because I loved her and I wanted the best for her.

How much board does she pay?
You need to make her life far less comfortable for her to move out.

It has nothing to do with you because she’s an adult so entitled to make any decision she wishes with her own body. I would, however, make a point of saying she will have to find her own place because she can’t raise a baby in your home.

I do agree with you even though I had my eldest child at 17, I wouldn’t want my child to do the same. She is too young and should focus on her career and just having fun for a few years. However, I have also had miscarriages and I know how unrelenting that pain feels. It doesn’t improve fully until you have a baby, at least it didn’t for me.

It would help for the daughter to realise her parents have their own lives to live and plans for their future.

OP,
It is reasonable to ask her is her boyfriend on board with this plan.

She is living rent free in your home.
You can ask.

It would be very unfair of her to do this and not be honest.

If he is depe ding on her for contraception he is also very naive.

If she’s too immature to understand that you would support her with an accidental pregnancy by making her life easier by staying at home. Versus she wants a baby and wants the security of home.
Then she’s not really that ready for the real world.
She needs to move out regardless of if she’s trying. She’s got a job. Got a boyfriend with a job. she can’t have it both ways. It would be different if she was at home saving for a house deposit.
But it seems she wants to be a child and be an adult all at the same time.

I think YABU. She's an adult, with a job (even if you don't think it's a sufficient job, which I think is very offensive to people who work in admin roles), she's entitled to do whatever she pleases with her own body and my heart breaks for her that she's already been through such a traumatic event at a young age.

Was you going to allow her to live with you when she was previously pregnant? If yes, what's changed now with future pregnancies/babies?

You're entitled to say no to her living with you and that's completely up to you but I still then you're being unreasonable.

Gosh op l feel for you,
Of course it is absolutely your time of life to enjoy and slow down, and downsize.

I think you have done exactly the right thing letting her know that you do not wish to live with a baby!

Also if she wants to be a mother she has to grow up, and make a plan as to how she is going to support her child for the next 18 years.

She needs to face that reality that it is not just what she wants, but the security and wellbeing of her future children that she needs to think about.
You would be doing her no favours to support her now, as you cannot guarantee to always be there, better she grows up and takes responsibility before any Dcs and sorts her finances, pension, and the roof over her head.

Your DH needs to support you with the plans you have made together.

Also, you're saying you want to downsize when your DS is in university. That's 7 years away, she most likely will be in her own house by then at 26 years old so I can't see the issue of her living with you with a baby right now. But that's just my opinion.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

Something else to consider re: not wanting to help with the baby - I have a friend (let’s call her Susie) in a professional role earning £70k. She works full time and has a toddler. She doesn’t pay a penny in childcare as her Mum looks after the little boy while Susie goes out to work. She has a beautiful home, nice car, goes on amazing holidays whenever she can. Could afford full time childcare but as her Mum works weekend shifts she has weekdays free so looks after her grandson. Your DD could have gone for the career, the nice lifestyle, having it all... and she’d still need your help.

Are you still saying that OP should let DD have the baby in her house because OP would need to provide full time childcare to DD even if DD has her own place?!

No one is owed childcare from their parents!

@Csx99

Also, you're saying you want to downsize when your DS is in university. That's 7 years away, she most likely will be in her own house by then at 26 years old so I can't see the issue of her living with you with a baby right now. But that's just my opinion.

You can't see the issue because it's not happening to you.

@partyatthepalace

Oh what a situation, am really sorry OP.

I think the first step is to talk to your husband. I’m assuming you both want a bright future for her. Keep a cool head (!) a d find out where his head is at. I think you have to talk about your fears for her, how is she going to support a baby or have a life with some pleasure in it with no money? Talk about his own desire not to downsize so that doesn’t get in the way of this. Then, I think you have to talk about the fact that allowing her to stay at home like an overgrown kid is going to be the worst thing for her long term.

In terms of your daughter, it’s not want any parent would want but you can’t stop her so you have to grit your teeth and be neutral and supportive. She should move out, but perhaps you and DH could assist this by contributing to rent (as a stepping stone.)

More counselling also sounds like a good idea. Also leave travel brochures all over the place!

In the end it’s up to her, hard though it is. If she does conceive it’s not the best start to adult life, but it doesn’t mean she won’t build a good life for herself. Above all don’t fall out with her.

You comments about the admin job are being taken out of context. If your daughter has good A levels of course you’d hope she would get a better paid job with career prospects. It does not mean you think admin jobs or the people who do them are worth less.

I think this advice is worth repeating.

Erm, excuse me. She's asking for people's thoughts on a public forum and what they would do in that situation - I'm saying my personal opinion and that PERSONALLY I can't see the issue - not saying her feelings shouldn't be taken into account, I'm merely voicing my opinion like she's asked for

So the daughtet has a right to choose whatever she wants with her life, rent free.

But the OP has zero rights and has to suck up her daughter's choices and be prepared to provide a home and childcare well into her non retirement.

Cloud cookoo land is where some people reside.

Not a chance are adult children ENTITLED to a free home and childcare for THEIR children.

Not in the world I inhabit anyway🙄

Young women want babies. Mother Nature demands it. A young woman who has lost a baby so tragically, even an unplanned baby, will no doubt have an incredible, off the scale yearning for a baby. This feeling is real and from what I have read, the OP is understanding of that, validates it and is kind.
Common sense is called for though and OP, you have done well to confront this head-on. It can’t have been easy to have to spell it out so bluntly but it seems that because of grief, your DD has been completely unable to think her plan through properly. She is merely addressing the longing and not the hundreds of practicalities and relationship/finance implications that come with having a baby. It’s simply a knee jerk reaction she is experiencing for now.
I believe you and your DH have served your DD well by your latest talk with her. For now, she is blinded by emotion, but hopefully she and the baby father (and his family) will come to see sense in your insistence that such young, inexperienced-in-life parents of a new baby need to be together in a strong relationship and financially independent, in their own home, before actively deciding to conceive.

@soreenqueen21

Why are there endless posts telling OP to suck it up and let her DD do as she wants? It's her house, and she does not want any babies in it. End of story!

There aren’t endless posts saying that, quite the reverse.

What there is here is massive lack of empathy. My second son was stillborn at 34 weeks when I was 23. It broke me. Fortunately in those days there was no therapy or counselling, it was acknowledged that grief after a loss took time to process and I was allowed to work through it in my own time.

One of the bitterest moments was being told it would be suicidal to attempt another pregnancy, the prospect of trying again was the only thing keeping me going up to that point. So I entirely understand how DD feels - and no amount of therapy or counselling will change that - it’s nature’s way of coping with loss and grief.

Thing is with an 11 year old a lovely retirement with endless holidays and cruises is a long way off, it’s not going to happen for seven years. If it were me I’d use the time to support both my children.