Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

OP I'd be fuming too you are completely right. The posters saying it's her body her choice - that's bullshit. She lives under OPs house so forbid she should follow OPs rules.

Her entitlement is waaaaay off I agree. The worst thing is you know OP is going to have to help out when the 19 year old wants to go off and do 19 year old things and doesn't want to be stuck with a baby.

Sounds extreme OP but honestly why don't you buy one of those baby experiments and give it to her for a week see how she's Copes and maybe that will give her the shock she needs.

She also needs therapist for the loss I agree.

I had an accidental pregnancy at 19 and miscarried at 14 weeks. I almost instantly started frantically trying for another one. It was obsessive and consumed my every thought. I remember vividly the conversations I had with my mum and I cringe, she never once told me not to, or atleast advised me this could be grief, and not the best idea with a lot of debt, no job and a flakey boyfriend. I got pregnant again fast and after having him I realised pretty quick that I wasn't ready for it, and although I love my son dearly I know deep down I should have waited. I'm 27 now and whereas my friends are settled in careers and starting to get engaged/pregnant I'm a single parent with a bog standard NHS admin role still juggling debt. I get very jealous of my friends who are having kids with stable partners and can have a couple close together, I would of loved to give my son a sibling. Anyway I remember, probably slightly unfairly, being really angry at my mum for years for not warning me. I was young and in love and with grown up eyes shed of known we wouldn't last, she knew how hard being a parent was, etc. I may not of listened but I wish someone had given me a different perspective to the one in my head which was just that I wanted a cute little baby to love and make everything better. Be honest and frank with her about the reality, she may not listen but if she does ever realise you were right atleast she won't resent you and you know you warned her.

Oh and one of my mum's friends got pregnant at school and pressured her into an abortion for 'her own good'. In her 50s she was still talking about this as the one thing in life she regrets. She left school and went on very quickly to having a family of her own,. Still regretted the abortion.
Jesus, after all the stuff recently on the news of women being forced to give up babies when they were young and how they were told they could now just forget about their babies and get on with their lives and it is for the best, and all the pain those women talk about carrying. These attitudes of ' OPs daughter has dodged a bullet' are just the modern iteration of those attitudes that led women being forced to give up their babies. Treating them as children not as mothers. Patronising them as children who will ' just forget their babies' as if they were never really mothers at all.

Awful, awful attitudes.

@Mam98

I had an accidental pregnancy at 19 and miscarried at 14 weeks. I almost instantly started frantically trying for another one. It was obsessive and consumed my every thought. I remember vividly the conversations I had with my mum and I cringe, she never once told me not to, or atleast advised me this could be grief, and not the best idea with a lot of debt, no job and a flakey boyfriend. I got pregnant again fast and after having him I realised pretty quick that I wasn't ready for it, and although I love my son dearly I know deep down I should have waited. I'm 27 now and whereas my friends are settled in careers and starting to get engaged/pregnant I'm a single parent with a bog standard NHS admin role still juggling debt. I get very jealous of my friends who are having kids with stable partners and can have a couple close together, I would of loved to give my son a sibling. Anyway I remember, probably slightly unfairly, being really angry at my mum for years for not warning me. I was young and in love and with grown up eyes shed of known we wouldn't last, she knew how hard being a parent was, etc. I may not of listened but I wish someone had given me a different perspective to the one in my head which was just that I wanted a cute little baby to love and make everything better. Be honest and frank with her about the reality, she may not listen but if she does ever realise you were right atleast she won't resent you and you know you warned her.

This...all of this.

@Notyours

Raindropumbrella

Obviously losing a baby is devastating but privately I’d be thinking that she dodged a bullet

I agree with Raindrop. Your daughter may feel grief stricken but with time, she would get over it. She needs to be with friends and family who are enjoying being nineteen, not having babies

This is all fucking horrible. Did you not hear the testimony of the MP who lost a child at a similar age, and how her deep pain was compounded by EXACTLY this attitude, that it was for the 'best'? She spoke powerfully of being treated as a child and not as a grieving mother. And that that pain was so deep that she never tried to have a child again as she could not bear risking the pain of it again.

OPs daughter is a grieving mother and needs to be treated as such. She will never be the same as other 19 year olds. She's lived through something that they cannot even imagine. This will never be forgotten about. She needs to learn to integrate it as part of herself in a bearable way, but she will never forget.

I don't think it is quite as black and white as that. Yes, people do grieve when they lose a baby, even as a teenager, but she does not have enough people around her giving her (gentle) encouragement for the future and she will have a better future if she waits a few years and is less dependent on her parents.

Having a child is a big thing, she has no idea what it is is like to be bringing one up from baby hood, up all hours etc.

I do feel for her and remember when I was a teen one or two girls who were pregnant and lost their babies. They were very sad but it didn't last forever. A few years later they were ready for parenthood - and not with the same chap.

The op hasn't said much about her boyfriend or what his parents thoughts are on the subject.

I wish them all well, there's no easy answer to this one but some plain speaking from all sides is necessary. You may find his mum and dad are even less supportive and, let's face it, if you lived in a two up two down, it wouldn't even be considered unless they could afford a decent place to live.

Good luck to you all.

Her body her choice.

But the OP doesn't have to facilitate it. I wouldn't want a screaming baby in my life now either. And it's not fair on the 11 year old.

Not sure what the answer is though, as the OPs DH wants it.

I’ve just read your replies OP and not others. I think soon it would be a good idea to start charging her rent. At the moment she has no idea how much it costs to run a home and this is why she is happy working only 4 days a week - she has a lot of disposable income. If DH is not happy you can tell him that secretly to her you will save the home and she can have it later when she moves out or forwards a house deposit.

I’m with you OP in that I’d be strongly encouraging her to wait. At the very least moving out if she did get pregnant, however she’s still a child herself and quite immature.

You will have some influence even if she chooses to ignore you.

Getting pregnant before you’ve ever left home, and therefore experienced a bit of life yourself, is not the best decision. I get that she’s not in a good place, which is even more of a reason not to get pregnant.

I have a relative who got pregnant aged 20 whilst still living at home. I believe it was a terrible decision, watching from the outside. It’s made her quite entitled and not a great parent to be honest. It all stemmed from her not having that vital growing up space between home and having her own family.

This relative went apeshit when her parents asked her to leave home with her BF, her parents ended up paying for 6 months rent and deposit, but she still ended up moving back in after a big bust up with BF. She then just took over her parents house, and there was a lot of tension. She frequently left the morning childcare to her mum and got postnatal depression. It was all a mess for quite a few years and I don’t think she bonded well with the baby. Now the child is 10, and she works every weekend and has weekdays off, so the child again spends most of their time with the grandparents.

Sounds extreme OP but honestly why don't you buy one of those baby experiments and give it to her for a week see how she's Copes and maybe that will give her the shock she needs.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea for someone who suffered a miscarriage recently. Might set her back a bit, especially when she has to give it back. Think therapy again is what she needs.

I’ve only read the OPs posts, so apologies if it’s been suggested.

OP, when you downsize, could you gift say £10-£15k to your daughter for a house deposit, and put the same amount aside for your son?

Then she could at least be on the property ladder before her child arrives. Mortgage will be a bit lower than rent. And she might feel less hard done by.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea for someone who suffered a miscarriage recently. Might set her back a bit, especially when she has to give it back. Think therapy again is what she needs*

I'm not so sure - it's the preparation and practice she'll need if she falls pregnant again.

Get her to work out the finances. When she goes back to work, what will 4 days child care cost. That ought to nip it in the bud.

@Namechangeme1

* I'm not sure if that's a good idea for someone who suffered a miscarriage recently. Might set her back a bit, especially when she has to give it back. Think therapy again is what she needs*

I'm not so sure - it's the preparation and practice she'll need if she falls pregnant again.

Oh yeah totally, just wondering how she'll react when she has to give it up as people do form attachments to them, but yeah maybe it will just show her the reality of it.

I agree with you op. Your life has been on hold while you raised your kids, and if you wanted another baby in the home, you would have one, or adopt one. But you don't. If she wants to purposefully start a family of her own, she needs to sort out a family home of her own to do it in first. Trying for a baby, while not knowing if you'll be moving to a much smaller house with no space for it, or money to pay for it, is irresponsible, and shows she's not ready. What are her plans for childcare, when she goes back to work?

She sounds totally entitled, and is taking the piss massively. I think you need to downsize now, start charging her proper lodger rates, get her to buy her own food etc, give her as big a dose of reality as you can.

What a difficult situation OP. She is so young, demonstrably not mature enough to be ready to fly the nest and stand on her own two feet, yet also thinks that another baby will heal the grief of loss.
I think you need to get her some more counselling perhaps ? Can you gently talk to her about grief, and that she will still grieve the loss of her baby even if she gets pregnant again ? That she needs to take time to process this traumatic event ?
I would support my dd if she was pregnant accidentally of course, but like you I would expect her to be sensible if she was planning for a child and expect her to only do this if she was in a position to have one. Your dd is reacting emotionally to her loss and only thinking of another little baby, but of course the new baby bit is such a small amount of parenting children. It sounds as though your dd is not very committed to her boyfriend at all, which is less than ideal for a baby given all the other issues. She is giving your DH the role of doting Dad .
I wonder if she had a massive wobble about leaving home and going to university? Was that when she got pregnant? Perhaps her baby was planned too ? She may see all her friends going off and doing new, exciting things and feel that she wants something to fill this gap, as well as the huge loss she has been through.

You are completely reasonable to not want to house a teenager set on starting a family, it is completely different to helping a teenager deal with an unexpected pregnancy.

*and without knowing if said pregnancy will actually result in her homelessness, for all she knows, you could crack up and throw her out.

@Lavender201

I’ve only read the OPs posts, so apologies if it’s been suggested.

OP, when you downsize, could you gift say £10-£15k to your daughter for a house deposit, and put the same amount aside for your son?

Then she could at least be on the property ladder before her child arrives. Mortgage will be a bit lower than rent. And she might feel less hard done by.

I think this suggestion is excellent! Surely if this whole situation was not happening, your DD was working in a “proper job” and was trying to get on the property ladder you’d help her out?

Something else to consider re: not wanting to help with the baby - I have a friend (let’s call her Susie) in a professional role earning £70k. She works full time and has a toddler. She doesn’t pay a penny in childcare as her Mum looks after the little boy while Susie goes out to work. She has a beautiful home, nice car, goes on amazing holidays whenever she can. Could afford full time childcare but as her Mum works weekend shifts she has weekdays free so looks after her grandson. Your DD could have gone for the career, the nice lifestyle, having it all... and she’d still need your help.

She is blindly focusing on replacing her loss.
Yanbu. She hasn't got the means to support a baby, you'll be left holding the can.

Could afford full time childcare but as her Mum works weekend shifts she has weekdays free so looks after her grandson. Your DD could have gone for the career, the nice lifestyle, having it all... and she’d still need your help.

You're contradicting yourself.

This person you're referring to can afford the choice of full time paid childcare. Therefore doesn't 'need' her mother's help.

That's a completely different scenario to a teenager purposely having a baby and living with her parents, whilst dependent upon them.

@SempreSuiGeneris

Your DS is only 11 so it is going to be a very long time before you are going to be footloose and fancy free as you envisage. If your DD had a baby now they would be at school before he has left school.

I have friends who had DC at age 20 and now have grown up DC while they are still in their 30s with a degree under their belt and a 30 year career ahead of them.

I have a friend who was in exactly your position a couple of years ago. She absolutely dotes on her grandson and her 2 DDs (the one with the baby and the sensible career one) are all closer than they have ever been. I also have a friend who took your attitude and sees very little of her DD or grandchild and somewhat regrets it. In between these extremes lots of examples of compromise and supportive families.

I also had a missed miscarriage at 20 weeks. What got me over it was having my own DD a year later.

My Grannie had her 1st baby as a "mistake" when she was 20 and was happily married to his father for over 60 years. She would find your attitude baffling because having lived through 2 World Wars and several renditions of societal norms she was pretty dismissive of plans and expectations. Now I am in my 50s with lots of divorced friends and friends who have spent 20 years juggling and compromising to "have it all" my attitude is similar.

You could still downsize and help your DD to buy somewhere or buy somewhere for her to rent from you. We don't have a 5 bedroom house but do have a 20 and a 10 year old. In your shoes that is what I would do. Part of me wishes my 20 year old had a job, working boyfriend and was planning a family instead of stuck in limbo in the wreckage of the Covid Uni experience atm.

My Grannie had her 1st baby as a "mistake" when she was 20 and was happily married to his father for over 60 years. She would find your attitude baffling because having lived through 2 World Wars and several renditions of societal norms she was pretty dismissive of plans and expectations. Now I am in my 50s with lots of divorced friends and friends who have spent 20 years juggling and compromising to "have it all" my attitude is similar

Completely different generation and not comparable to today. Most women did have babies when they were young so your granny wasn’t doing anything extraordinary.

Contraceptives weren’t readily available as they are now so it would have been more difficult to try and avoid getting pregnant. There’s no excuses now .

Women didn’t have same opportunities they do now. Most women were ‘home makers’ as going to Uni etc wasn’t for the average jo.

You could run a household on one wage back then. It’s pretty impossible now!

You sat they were together for 60 years, again partly to do with the generation. These days divorce is much more likely

Your DD could have gone for the career, the nice lifestyle, having it all... and she’d still need your help.
Susie is an irresponsible adult freeloader, not a good example at all.

Hi OP I was just thinking have you spoken to your daughter about career progression, in her current job? I think NHS admin might be a great place to start an NHS career. She could have a think about maybe becoming a HCA and from there do further training, maybe even think about nursing or therapy etc. She's done really well to get this role and there are often hundreds of people applying for them so try not to be too disappointed she hasn't been to uni yet. I'm very sorry she has suffered such a huge loss at such a young age xx

OP I think you find the right thing. If she wants a baby then fair enough. She needs to step up though and start being more independent.

Relaying on you and her dad isn’t going to encourage independence. She needs to know actions have consequences.

Also, have you explained to her how much resentment you'll feel for her and the baby, if she does this? Because it sounds like you will, and that will sour your relationship with dd and your grand child (because your daughter was entitled and thought she could have her cake and eat it).

And what if she gets pregnant again after that? Decides she wants two kids, and it's okay because mum and dad have a big house, can continue to help out, pay for things etc?

@Lavender201. I don't get what you're saying. Someone on £70k doesn't need their mum's help to look after their child... they can afford nursery. And quite frankly it's a bit much to sign the mum up for 5 days a week childcare when she's also working weekends... so the mum never gets a day to herself ! She works 7 days a week. That's just outrageous and Susie is taking huge advantage of her mum.

There should be no obligation on grandparents to help with childcare and parents need to plan these things before having kids... another reason why the OP's DD becoming a single mum at 19 is not a good idea.