Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

OP I totally agree with you. Losing a baby is extremely hard but there’s no way in the world I would be encouraging and supporting this idea. She doesn’t have a great job, she needs to concentrate on improving her income so she can afford a baby. If she’s old enough to be a mum she’s old enough to move out and crack on with looking after her baby without mummy and daddy in the background. I also have an 11 year old so still in the youngish child stage, my eldest is similar age to your daughter and no way would I be supportive of this. I also agree, last thing I want, when I’m past the small child stage is to start living it again which is 100% what would happen if she has a baby now. Nobody is saying she shouldnt have a baby just that now isn’t the time

@SmokeyDevil yes, I agree with you. But you’ve said she is after mummy and daddy’s money, you’ve called her lazy, you’ve said she wants her mum and dad to look after the baby, all because she works four days a week despite the fact that helps out around the house and with her younger brother? She has called them unsupportive, but how does that equate to ‘because you won’t look after my baby’?

I totally get you op I would feel the same. Those earlier posters berating op one even saying she would “fall in love with” the grandchild 🙄 I wonder if they are younger women? Because believe me as you get older and your hormone balance shifts your view about caring for babies and young children really really changes.

@CornflowerBlueBird

You’ve both based your analysis on (not off) the same data.

You have different interpretations is alll.

@TatianaBis no, I have stated what the OP has actually said. Smokey has made stuff up.

@Raindropumbrella

Obviously losing a baby is devastating but privately I’d be thinking that she dodged a bullet

MN is like another world sometimes.

I agree with Raindrop. Your daughter may feel grief stricken but with time, she would get over it. She needs to be with friends and family who are enjoying being nineteen, not having babies and your husbands seems to be enabling her. That is very unusual. Most people work a few years and secure a home before having children, just because her parents have plenty of room it doesn't mean she has to take advantage of that. With boyfriend moving in as well as a baby, the big house will be far less big!

What do boyfriend's parents think of their plans? The plans seem to be arse about face to me. Your daughter is grieving and needs someone neutral with whom to talk this through.

I think you’ve done really well OP.

It seems that DD decided that the fix for the grief of miscarriage was another baby without really thinking it through at all. Which is indicative of her age.

[quote CornflowerBlueBird]@SmokeyDevil yes, I agree with you. But you’ve said she is after mummy and daddy’s money, you’ve called her lazy, you’ve said she wants her mum and dad to look after the baby, all because she works four days a week despite the fact that helps out around the house and with her younger brother? She has called them unsupportive, but how does that equate to ‘because you won’t look after my baby’?[/quote]
Her reaction when her parents told her she will need to move out was to burst into tears, call them heartless and unsupportive and to get out. Is that behaving rationally? She doesn't want to leave because she wants the help from her parents, she won't get that if she moves out. Whether that's financial, emotional, physical help, who knows, but she doesn't want to do this on her own or with her boyfriend, so she's not ready for it.

If your daughter speaks to you again I think you need to explain the implications of her choices, both good and bad.

Its fine to not be ambitious - having a career is not what everyone wants - but she does need to understand the implications of working in a low wage sector. She needs to understand she will not have the lifestyle she grew up with and will not have a life like yours.

it sounds like getting pregnant has made her realise what she does want in life. To be a mother. And that is fine. But she has to realise the implications of that. Such as the impact of the cost of childcare when she earns the wage she does. The cost of having a child. Where she will be able to afford to live. There are advantages to having a child so early. It means you have time to live your life, find out who you are, and then start in a new career, the career you actually want, and start a whole new life when you are in your late 30s / early 40's. I am quite envious of that! But she needs to really think through the practicalities, and it doesn't sound like she was fully done that.

It sounds like your conversation was framed in terms of ' you can't live here' and, if it was, that was unfortunate. Because its not really about that. Its about understanding the need to make thought through decisions and be responsible for them. That includes understanding and being responsible for her job choices and for being a mother. She can't by de facto make you live-in co-parents to support her decision.

Get over it? Indicative of her age?

Wow, mumsnet is the dregs. This is awful to read, I sincerely hope your Daughter never reads this OP. And I sincerely hope none of you ever lose a baby. You don’t just get over it and your age is not a factor. Disgusting comments. I am out of here.

While I understand that she’s grieving for the lost baby, IMO it’s highly irresponsible to actually plan to have a baby she can’t even begin to support.

As for those posters who shout ‘Her body, her choice!’ they sound equally irresponsible and immature.

@CornflowerBlueBird

In fact, you interpreted what the OP said. Just as the other poster did.

@SmokeyDevil I agree she isn’t ready for it, but you’ve still made up a load of unpleasant stuff about OPs daughter unnecessarily.

Lazy to be working four days a week after a traumatic event?

And if she was working 4 days only before then? Op said she could have worked 5 days, but just didn't want to as she wanted a day off.

If she hadn't had a miscarriage, would you still think this is completely normal and an ok thing to do? Because I think you're feeling sympathy for her based on the miscarriage and are ignoring how insane this idea is. She isn't even over the miscarriage, this isnt going to help her.

If the boyfriend is fully signed up to all of this it's a fair question to ask how he's planning to provide for his child. This is now a "planned" pregnancy, but they seem to be doing very little planning on the practical aspects of being parents.

@TatianaBis nope, OP called her lazy, insulted her job, said her boyfriend wasn’t right for her and has generally been quite unsupportive of her daughter in this thread. I haven’t made that up, it’s there in black and white.

[quote CornflowerBlueBird]@SmokeyDevil I agree she isn’t ready for it, but you’ve still made up a load of unpleasant stuff about OPs daughter unnecessarily.[/quote]
And if I'm right? What would you think then if that is her plan?

She said she just wants her baby!

This is so sad, I really feel for her but understand your position. Lots of TLC needed around this. I think she is still very traumatised

To PPs saying admin NHS job is a proper job, you're absolutely right. But working part time when one has no rent or bills to pay is easy. She must realise that if she moves out she'll have to work full time. People who make a choice to work part time do so because they can afford it and that's a different situation.

OP, the conversation you had sounds hard but in my opinion you did the right thing. I feel for your daughter and what she's going through, I can't begin to imagine how hard it must be, but she will now need to make an adult decision.

OP's daughter has gone through a tough time and needs counseling and support from her parents. However, that doesn't mean the parents support her when she is making decisions without much thought and out of grief. The daughter is saying she just wants the baby and has no clear idea what role the bf is going to play. She thinks that she could just stay home with the baby. OP did the right thing by letting her know that if she wants to be a parent that comes with responsibilities. The daughter cannot let her grief make her choices that she cannot support. If she really would like a child and thinks she is old enough to be a parent then she should be acting like an adult who can raise a child and live independently, sort out finances, sort out childcare, have discussions with bf about taking turns with the baby etc. I don't know why OP is getting grief for being a mother who is looking at her child in grief and seeing that she is going to make tough decisions that she might not be able to manage and wanting better for her. Her daughter is only 19, perhaps OP wants her daughter to go to college, travel, have fun in her 20's and build up a career before having a child.... How does that make her cold or callous? Continue to reiterate that you love her OP and get her counseling. It would be best if she could find a way to go through the grief and find a way to come out of it without feeling like she needs to have another baby. However, if that is the only way she can move forward then she needs to step up and sort things out to be in a financial and socially independent position to look after her child. Through this all do let her know that you love her and you are not doing this to hurt her but this is the reality of being a parent. You have provided for her and parented to her the best of your abilities and if she feels she is ready for it then she needs to step it up on her own

Raindropumbrella

Obviously losing a baby is devastating but privately I’d be thinking that she dodged a bullet

I agree with Raindrop. Your daughter may feel grief stricken but with time, she would get over it. She needs to be with friends and family who are enjoying being nineteen, not having babies

This is all fucking horrible. Did you not hear the testimony of the MP who lost a child at a similar age, and how her deep pain was compounded by EXACTLY this attitude, that it was for the 'best'? She spoke powerfully of being treated as a child and not as a grieving mother. And that that pain was so deep that she never tried to have a child again as she could not bear risking the pain of it again.

OPs daughter is a grieving mother and needs to be treated as such. She will never be the same as other 19 year olds. She's lived through something that they cannot even imagine. This will never be forgotten about. She needs to learn to integrate it as part of herself in a bearable way, but she will never forget.

*I had a proper chat with DH last night, and we came to the agreement that we'd support DD to put a rent deposit together if she becomes pregnant, but she can't live here. He's also agreed it really is time to think of selling up soon

We went and spoke to DD, said we absolutely feel for her and we are sorry she's in this position, it must be hard. We said we support her choice if she wants another baby, but, it means moving out. She broke down into tears asking why?! Since she could've stayed here with the last baby. I said that wouldn't have been long term, and this is an active decision of hers. If she wants to become a mum then she needs to find accommodation too. She told us to get out and said we're heartless and unsupportive. I said to her about her boyfriend, why hadn't she even asked if she could have him stay with us too? She said she just wants her baby! Boyfriend will see new baby whenever

I repeated what we said about the housing and left it at that. Obviously not spoken since because it's so early, but DH is getting ready for work and seems very calm and happy about our choice*

Well done on getting on the same page with your DH.

In retrospect it was probably regrettable you haven't been charging rent/B&L since she started work, but I can see why your DH didn't want to do that at her age, especially as you had expected, I think, that she would have gone to uni and would still be being financed by you. In the future your DS will be going to uni, hopefully, and you want to be fair to them both.

Did Covid derail her life? If she's 19 now, was she supposed to do the cancelled A levels last year? If so, that may have factored into her getting a job instead, although I suspect the local BF had an impact too.

Hopefully the conversation will make a difference and the daughter will work out a realistic plan for the life she wants.

She's not unreasonable to want a family and a particular job - but there is no affordable housing that goes with the lifestyle she wants. The people who are talking about a 'nice little flat' must be living in another country. People who had children when young in the 1950s often had to live with in-laws or parents in cramped housing for years, and had an awful time of it.

The problem is that if she does get pregnant, she suddenly holds many more cards - if the OP wants a good relationship with her daughter and grandchild, and doesn't want them living in poverty. That is why it's important she decides for herself to just wait a bit.

It's sad. If I were in OP's shoes I would be distraught at starting the round of nappies and Peppa all over again when it must feel as if the children have only just got independent enough to catch buses and get their own Weetabix.

Equally - worse things happen at sea and nothing is forever.

@Notyours

Raindropumbrella

Obviously losing a baby is devastating but privately I’d be thinking that she dodged a bullet

I agree with Raindrop. Your daughter may feel grief stricken but with time, she would get over it. She needs to be with friends and family who are enjoying being nineteen, not having babies

This is all fucking horrible. Did you not hear the testimony of the MP who lost a child at a similar age, and how her deep pain was compounded by EXACTLY this attitude, that it was for the 'best'? She spoke powerfully of being treated as a child and not as a grieving mother. And that that pain was so deep that she never tried to have a child again as she could not bear risking the pain of it again.

OPs daughter is a grieving mother and needs to be treated as such. She will never be the same as other 19 year olds. She's lived through something that they cannot even imagine. This will never be forgotten about. She needs to learn to integrate it as part of herself in a bearable way, but she will never forget.

All of this. I was 28 when we lost our baby at 22 weeks and it's changed me completely. I can only imagine the impact on a 19 year old. She'll be dealing with trauma and grief her whole life.

@CornflowerBlueBird

DD is rather lazy, she doesn’t want to go to uni, doesn’t want to work FT. Her job is low wage and without clear career path. Not many 19 year olds are right for each other so that’s hardly rocket science. And you have literally no idea how supportive OP has been as you’re simply judging her private frustrations here.