Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

In many households, women run the show and men do as little as they can get away with. If that's the case for the OP, it's no surprise that it has influenced her view on how much weight to give her DH's opinions. Very easy to volunteer others to help.

I think that the OPis right.

If she is grown up enough to have a baby then she is grown up enough to live independently.

Seems to me that what she wants is to "play Mummy" without any of the actualy real life shit that comes with that. So I would be going with "Yes have a baby, I will be there for you but you must be living in your own home first".

@checkyourpops

I am very supportive of her grief, and make a point of talking about my lost GD regularly. She's pictured on my wall in her little knitted outfit, and has her own family bauble at Christmas ❤️

But this is different. This would be an intentional pregnancy when she has no means to house a child or provide for them properly. It's not just me wanting to downsize. It's the care that comes with a GC under the same roof - you almost always end up taking on lots of extra work. But I don't want to. I don't want to care for a GC in my house. I want to visit. I want to hand them back properly and return to peace. This isn't what I wanted and I'm sorry, it's my house, she doesn't get to disturb that

@checkyourpops - 100% agree. My mum is a great mum and a fantastic grandmother. My brother and his wife moved in with her for over a year with their baby. She loved having the little one there but after a while it just got too much. There was a lot of babysitting! She’s happy to do that occasionally but not 4/5 nights a week! She was really relieved when they moved out.

I personally think you should be more supportive.

Your DD has had a terrible loss, which was doubtless devastating.

She also has plenty of time to have a life after children.

Ultimately, not everyone is career ambitious. Some people want to be homemakers. Your DD evidently has that ambition - whether you want her to, or not.

I can understand why you don’t want it under your roof, but she could have become accidentally pregnant. Our last nanny conceived a child at 21 while at university, bought locally as a single mum, and subsequently went back to university to do a degree and had a successful career. Now her son has left home, she’s now changed career to live-in nannying as a way of seeing the world.

I know it’s not necessarily what you would have chosen for yourself, but it’s up to your DD to make her own mistakes. Also, life doesn’t have to happen in a particular order. You can have children at 19 and go onto have a successful career (like our nanny).

I can’t explain the financial ruin and devastation of your daughter doing ‘the sensible thing’ of putting off having kids, only to find she’s infertile in her 30s. Our grandparents have spent 10s of 1000s of pounds on IVF for us to have our two children, and my mum is now too old to look after them (my older boy has special needs). It’s not a situation you want to be in and it will be particularly toxic if you blocked your DD from having children 15-20 years before.

@checkyourpops

Hmm, I think a PP was right when they say I have a H problem. I'm going to have to try and convince him this absolutely is NOT on. And she will not be having any newborn babies sleeping (or not so much!) under this roof. Sometimes we really do need tough love

DH will eventually come round to my way of thinking when he sees I'm dead serious. This is no joking matter

You’re quite scary.

You really do have a ‘my way or the highway’ attitude.

Now is a good time to maybe think where this will end.

The DD gets pregnant, the Mother says bye bye, the father says no way, and the end result is serious down sizing, i.e. running two households and splitting assets etc. Slight disruption to the 11 year old, or maybe that should be major. Daughter goes NC with mother and moves in with father with baby.
Mother enjoys her cruises.

Daughter gets pregnant, bye bye, father agrees that it is better to agree with the mother as there is no other way to release the clamp around his balls. Daughter moves in with unsuitable BF in bad area and goes NC except for visits to brother. Father resents what has become of his daughter and sends cash secretly.

This reduces ability to go on cruises. Down sizing as above.

Daughter ends up as single parent due to bf parents saying the baby should have been aborted and he uses that as an excuse to bail out.
Daughter fulfills potential and becomes director of all cruise lines in the world. This limits mother's opportunity to go on a cruise as there never seems to be any tickets available.

Daughter gets pregnant and mother changes her mind and they all live in harmony for two years. Daughter moves out and into a pad near uni as she is starting her degree. Boyfriend takes on child care whilst she gets a first class degree and goes on to make her mother proud. Everyone lives happily ever after.
Son meets a nice girl and gets a job in admin in NHS after good A level results...oh no, here we go again...

At the end of the day, a good parent has to accept that children may not value exactly what their parents value.

This is an interesting comment. I think children do value the lifestyle their parents provide. It's just they think they are entitled to continue that lifestyle once they become an adult even if, as in this situation, they make decisions that would never enable them to have that lifestyle if they left the family home.

I think that is OPs underlying issue. Her DD does not want to set herself up to achieve a similar lifestyle on her own merits. She wants the 5 bedroom house with ensuite on a low level, part time role, whilst actively trying for a child.

Once the child is here I think the OP is concerned that there will be a lot of baby related expectations placed on her. After all, she is the mother in this household and that has been the dynamic for the last 19 years.

Hence the desire for DD to move out. That will change the dynamic and OP can be the grandparent.

OP is looking forward to the next phase of her life, when children have left home and they can downsize and have more leisure time. OP shouldn't have to compromise that goal because of decisions made by another adult.

The OP is being no more selfish in her desires than her DD.

[quote TatianaBis]@Blossomtoes

You’ve no idea what job she’s doing. According to OP - basic wage and not much prospects. DD is not on an apprenticeship scheme where training and career progression is mapped out - the type that some firms offer non-graduates. (The type indeed that the NHS offer medical trainees.)

You can get from market stall to CEO but those who do tend to be the exception not the rule. To get into NHS management it’s much easier on a graduate scheme.A friend of mine heads an NHS trust but she started off at Cambridge.[/quote]
She doesn’t need to be on an apprentice scheme to progress. One of the things the NHS is really good at is fostering and nurturing talent. Presumably you don’t work in the NHS, I did for decades and have seen firsthand that it really does grow its own talent in non clinical areas. I have a friend who was Director of Communications for a well known Trust - she left school at 16.

Yes, and I would agree but there is the fact that the daughter is traumatized and that the father is not in agreement with the mother. These facts shift the dynamics in my opinion.

And that this is not a child free household for another 7 years

This is reminiscent of the sister who was supporting her teen sister while pregnant as the mother did not want to have her there . Yet again a woman who is near retirement age is expected by many to have a different life because of the wants of one of her children . Why should she ? If daughter is old enough to decide to get pregnant then daughter is old enough to get a house and a job that covers her needs .

If she is prepared to kick her pregnant, grieving daughter out against her husband's wishes then surely she can refuse to take on child care responsibilities of any baby in their house.

@ClareBlue

And that this is not a child free household for another 7 years

This. And how is OP of retirement age if she has an 11 year old child? Retirement age is now 66. How many cruises will she be going on with a secondary age child?

Sounds like a scapegoat/golden child dynamic and a mother eager for the scapegoat to move out so she can move to a house with just enough room for her marriage and the golden child. There goes scapegoat again, wrecking everything.

@WombOfOnesOwn

Sounds like a scapegoat/golden child dynamic and a mother eager for the scapegoat to move out so she can move to a house with just enough room for her marriage and the golden child. There goes scapegoat again, wrecking everything.

Oh don't be so ridiculous. She's simply done her time with screaming babies and has no wish to repeat the experience.

This is madness. Cannot believe the OP is getting so much stick for not wanting her teen daughter, who still lives at home, to get pregnant.

I wouldn’t be waiting for her to get pregnant, it will all be far too complicated then, I’d be saying it seems like she’s ready to be a full and proper adult and part of that is being independent. Not living at home, she needs to be financially independent and in a position to house, clothe and feed and children she wants.

Also they need to see how they get on as a couple living together, again in any other circumstances man would not be advising bringing a child into this situation.

I understand she has found recent events very traumatic, I’ve had similar myself although I coped well with it, but that does not give her carte blanche.

The whole thing sounds a complete nightmare.

@WombOfOnesOwn

Sounds like a scapegoat/golden child dynamic and a mother eager for the scapegoat to move out so she can move to a house with just enough room for her marriage and the golden child. There goes scapegoat again, wrecking everything.

This is ridiculous.

I have read the comments and am so surprised there is so little discussion of the proposed father of a future baby. Someone even talked of the daughter and her own father moving out and living together to raise the child. It takes two to make a baby, has anyone spoken to him, surely he will want to live with, see and bring up his own child and provide for them? It is the most massive responsibility there is. If you made it clear to him you won't be housing them all, and that he will have to step up, would he be so very willing to conceive a baby quickly?

I know she's technically allowed to TTC but come on, surely it's ridiculous?

Yes, it is.
When did the bar become SO low that this is all a teenager aims for?

Her dad is happy for her to stay, the problem seems to be all yours.

Bollocks. The grandad-to-be is probably fine with them staying because it won't much affect him. Bet the OP (=grandma) is the one who will be stuck with endless washing, cleaning, cooking and babysitting.

Her daughter has been through a traumatic experience. She needs counselling, not a baby. A baby should not come into the world with the "job" assignment of providing its mother with therapy, and the OP's daughter should not be getting pregnant until she and her partner have a legal commitment to each other in place, somewhere to live and enough money to live on.

@WombOfOnesOwn

Sounds like a scapegoat/golden child dynamic and a mother eager for the scapegoat to move out so she can move to a house with just enough room for her marriage and the golden child. There goes scapegoat again, wrecking everything.

Don’t be silly.

But do think whether it would really be better to be roped in as a supportive grandparent in 20 years' time, if she had her children at, say, 39 and 41 and needed some childcare help; or if she needed to borrow significant sums to afford IVF.

Why is it a binary choice between "get pregnant now" vs waiting until she's 40?

If the OP's daughter sees herself as primarily a homemaker and wants to have her kids young, fine, no problem. Do this in four or five years time. By that point, they can be married, the guy can have a job, there will be some savings in place and they will have somewhere to live.

Goodness what a nightmare. Your DS reminds me of myself at 19. Teenagers are so wrapped up in their own world. Their brains are still developing. "The last bits of the brain to connect are the frontal and prefrontal cortices, where insight, empathy and risk taking are controlled. This means that very smart adolescents will do very stupid things in a very impulsive way."

Have you considered charging her a market based rent, proportioning food/bills costs right now? She needs to confront some hard realities now! Not in some future fantasy land.

There is no way I would support my daughter if she planned a pregnancy at 19. I understand it is one thing supporting your DD with an unplanned pregnancy she can’t bear to terminate but TTC in her circumstances and expecting to impose upon you is not on.
Why is your husband so reluctant to downsize from your 5 bed home? It sounds like he’s encouraging your DD so you have to stay out

I am very, very sorry for your daughter's loss. I do think she needs to see her GP and talk to someone about what has happened. However two 19 year olds trying for a baby is very young. I know what I was like at 19, there is no way I would have been ready for the responsibility. I think much as you cannot dictate to your daughter, one thing I would make clear is if your daughter and boyfriend have a child together, it will be their baby, their responsibility and you won't be bringing the child up. Sadly, I know of a similar situation and in the end, mum couldn't handle the responsibility(and it was mum who decided she definitely wanted a baby). Upshot was she walked away and the young dad couldn't cope, so gran is now bringing up baby in her fifties. Totally exhausted but understandably felt she could not walk away and abandon the baby. It's all very well wanting a baby, but, this is a person and a huge responsibility for 19 year olds.