Not to support DD TTC?

[checkyourpops]

She's 19. Too young, if we are all completely honest.

Last year, she was pregnant with her own DD who died sadly due to a miscarriage at 20 weeks. The pregnancy wasn't planned, although that wasn't making it any easier obviously. I am/was of course devastated for her so I know she's had a hard time. But she needs to be realistic in her choices, as hard as that may be for now.

Her boyfriend is nice enough but I'm not entirely sure he's right for her, for a number of reasons.

Thing is, even if she did let herself down and her prospects down by moving out and finding somewhere to live, that would at least be something.

But she wants to continue living in her large bedroom, with her en-suite. The house is quite big so we have space but her entitlement is so off.

The reason I know she's TTC is because I found a receipt from Boots on the side next to some Vitamins and my prescription I asked her to pick up. On it said Folic Acid. I take a further look and I find it in the cupboard. Upon confronting DD, she says she's very sorry but they feel TTC is the only thing that's easing their pain.

I said fine, (I was quite angry), but move out first at least. She says she wants to stay here. I said she really can't, with a baby. When asked if she also expected her boyfriend to move in too, she said she didn't expect that? To make matters worse yet, H has spoken to her over dinner apparently?! And he says he supports her decision... when speaking to him in private, I said this is absolutely NOT on, she isn't even willing to move out. He says we've got space and the room. I say no. He's very calm about this whole thing. It's actually infuriating. I said well I bet she still expected to come on holiday with us if she has a baby. He says why not?!

Truth is that H doesn't want to downsize and I do. We currently live in a 5 bed house. It's too big for us all. We also have a DS who's 11.

What on earth would you do? H is not supporting me in encouraging DD to find a space of her own. That's before we get into the fact that two 19 year olds are trying for a baby.

She has no proper job, despite very good A Level results. She chose to go to work in some admin role for the NHS and works only 4 days a week 'because it suits her well'. Her boyfriend works in property of some sort in an advanced apprenticeship, think he did a few before that. A

I'm so upset for her. I can't believe she's doing this to herself and us

@Fieldsofstars

A 19 year old is still a 19 year old regardless of their financial or living situation. The children shouldn’t have children comment is ridiculous. Since when did financial/ home status have any relevance to emotional maturity/ adulthood?

Is a 27 year old that still lives at home with mum and dad still a child?
Are they not mature enough to have one because they still live at home?
It’s as judgemental as ripping people for having more children than they can fit in their house, cause you know... they should be adults and move first?

@TableFlowerss

A 27 year old that still loves at home with their parents is a dependent! If they can’t stand on their own two feet then yes I think they should recognise that having a baby isn’t a great idea!!!!

I sympathize OP. You want your daughter to be emotionally, financially and socially be in a good place before deciding to have a kid. Your daughter has gone through a tough time and needs help and counseling. You also need to make her understand the reality of being a parent. First, you need to get your husband on the same page. Next, you and your DP need to sit down with your daughter and have a frank conversation of what it entails to be a parent. Where is she going to live? How will she support herself and the baby? Talk honestly with her about the realities of raising a baby, midnight feeds, crying, help and support required. Make it very clear that while you will always love her, she will be the caretaker of the baby and your involvement will be only as a grandparent who enjoys and spoils the baby while providing occasional help. You will not be able to be provide with hands on help with raising the child so she needs to find a way to sort all of that out. Make it very clear that you have done your part in raising her and her brother and you and your DP are ready to move on to the next stage of your life which will include downsizing etc etc. Hopefully with more counseling and frank conversations, she will have all the pertinent information and be in a better headspace to make the best decision for herself

The daughters baby died and you're comparing this to her wanting a puppy?

That’s not what the poster is saying. Goadiness is reaching peak levels on this thread...

@ViciousJackdaw

OP, I would try and determine whether DD and her BF are TTC or whether your DD is TTC. There's a difference.

I’d advise to leave that well alone and not try to sabotage her relationship as it could push her over the edge completely

If she didn’t know she was pregnant and was with a scallywag with no hope of supporting each other let alone a baby then yes…
She had a baby growing inside her and had dreams the way we all do, nothing to do with the father or her circumstances, she had decided she was happy/ready to be a mother (like all of us whether married or not, 100%ready or not(and who is?))

I did an assignment on pregnancies following baby loss when I was at uni and it is a huge percentage of women try again very soon after baby loss. Leaving the hospital with empty arms is one of the most devastating things to go through and many women feel the only way to get through it is to have another baby. Let's not forget we are animals. Most of us have the biological urge to reproduce and that urge will be at its strongest when she does not have a baby but has been pregnant and given birth will all that grief and hormones going through her. I think it is unfair to think she is stupid for wanting to TTC as it is likely to be a very difficult urge to ignore for her. Probably the only thing in her mind that will make sense.

Obviously any gestation is devastating to lose a child but 20 weeks I feel is a particularly difficult time. Not quite far along enough to be classed as a 'real' baby but far along enough to give birth. I hope she got to make some memories with her daughter.

However, I agree TTC when at home is not sensible. She needs to have a plan if she does become pregnant. I was TTC before moving in with my then BF now DH, was still at home, neither with great jobs, but we had a wedding date booked and if I got pregnant before we would have sped up the moving process, we had it planned. Since having children I have gone on to university (no desire before) and now have a great profession, so if she does have a baby, all is not lost. But you and your DH need to talk and have a united front for when you next talk. It's not fair on her to be given different answers and getting hopes up and then taken away again or on you being made out to be the bad guy.

@stayathomer

See, I struggle to understand when women that don’t even know they’re pregnant, it’s not planned, they have a miscarriage then they’re devastated Possibly one of the worst things I've read on mn.

When did you join? An hour ago?

Is a 27 year old that still lives at home with mum and dad still a child?
Are they not mature enough to have one because they still live at home?

A 27 year old living at home who wants a child needs to get their arse out the door and live independently. Imposing them on your parent against their will is unacceptable.

I 100% agree she shouldn't be expecting her parents to house her and her baby. What I'm saying is, she obviously needs support. Going all guns blazing and saying she hasn't got a home if she gets pregnant is likely to just driver her further down that path.
Surely a more productive way would be to try and work on the trauma and explain it properly to her.
I presume she would have been living at home had her first baby survived? So she needs it spelling out that things have changed. She may still be stuck in that headspace, is what I mean.

@SarahAndQuack

Oh bless your heart. I went to 'uni,' have three degrees and now teach at university. I still understand an NHS admin job is a good, worthwhile job, and I still recognise that the OP's frustration is inappropriate.

Oh bless your quack. Despite your three degrees you can’t apparently grasp that others take a different view. An NHS admin role on a ‘basic wage’ with no ‘plans to progress’ is not a great job. She’s not even working FT.

OP, all it needs is "if you do this, you're out of this house", by way of response. No bloody negotiations!

Fast forward 20s years DD will be on the stately homes threads

@stackemhigh

Oh bless your heart. I went to 'uni,' have three degrees and now teach at university. I still understand an NHS admin job is a good, worthwhile job, and I still recognise that the OP's frustration is inappropriate.

It’s not unreasonable to be disappointed your child isn’t making the most of her very good A Levels.

Of course it isn't unreasonable to be concerned if you think your child is wasting an opportunity. But that is very different from deciding that being an NHS admin is a poor sort of job - it may not be what the OP wants, but it is perfectly respectable.

At the end of the day, a good parent has to accept that children may not value exactly what their parents value. It's entirely fair for the OP to point out she cannot facilitate her daughter having a baby while living at home. But it's not fair for her to decide that her daughter would be better off getting a degree, or doing a different type of job.

OP I’m completely with you on her TTC and expecting to live with you with the baby - that’s not on.

However I think you need to reframe the reasons why, as tbh you are coming across quite materialistic and that’s possibly not going to win your DD or DH round.

At the moment it’s all “just no” “mucky hands” “got the place the way I like it” “wanted to go on cruises” “I want to visit and hand them back” (what, you wouldn’t ever have your DGC visit your house?)

How about emphasising more that to be a parent you need to be able to support yourself and the baby financially, this includes paying for a place to live. How does she plan to get to this position. You’re happy to help her look at extra hours, better paid jobs, courses etc so that she can get in a better financial position for parenthood, if that’s what she really wants.

I think you also need to help her find other ways to deal with her grief that don’t involve TTC. I am sure many women will have been through a miscarriage and not TTC straight afterwards, because they didn’t want to or it wasn’t advisable etc, they will have found other ways to grieve and heal. Perhaps spending more time with her BF would help as they went through it together. Perhaps more counselling. Perhaps joining a RL group or speaking to some other organisations such as SANDS.

Basically I think you need to show that you are supportive of her and understand how hard this must be for her rather than framing it all as her being “entitled” and spoiling your plans for cruises and pristine decor.

@checkyourpops PPs who suggested taking her to look at flats have a good idea maybe. It is difficult if maybe it is things like further counselling and support she needs, and she doesn't want to move out.

One thing to consider is that at her age, benefits she's entitled to would be very limited at first, as it's assumed people can stay at home unless/until they can afford to move out without benefits. She won't be eligible for much help towards rent etc.

If she moved in with her boyfriend they could more easily afford a one bed flat, and might be entitled to the money to cover it if needed. But it sounds like maybe he isn't an ideal one to move in with.

I should say, I did lose a baby at 22 weeks so I am likely empathising with the OP's dd quite a lot.

Maybe agree that she can only stay until the baby is able to crawl. Then at least there will be no damage to fixtures and fittings.
Sound proof the bedroom so you will not hear any baby cries.
Agree you will only have 90 mins contact time with the baby every two weeks and this has to be at a neutral venue.
Work out a market rent for your daughter to teach her life lessons. Include a division of bills in this.
But really, really, important. Get your husband to some obedience classes as his obvious love for his daughter is impacting on his ability to get with the program, and this really isn't on.

@Treaclepie19

I should say, I did lose a baby at 22 weeks so I am likely empathising with the OP's dd quite a lot.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

minipie that's what I've been trying (badly) to get across.

Thank you @SarahAndQuack

The daughters baby died and you're comparing this to her wanting a puppy?

I’m not sure if your comprehension skills are exceptionally poor, or if you’re just being obtuse, but no, that wasn’t the comparison I made.

There are a lot of people being very disingenuous on this thread. I very much doubt that many posters would be thrilled to have their single, 19 year old, under-employed daughter TTC while living at home.

Can you get the boyfriend's parents on board? Because if they also make it abundantly clear that they have no intention of supporting a baby, the reality might begin to dawn.

@Jellybabiesforbreakfast

Is a 27 year old that still lives at home with mum and dad still a child? Are they not mature enough to have one because they still live at home?

A 27 year old living at home who wants a child needs to get their arse out the door and live independently. Imposing them on your parent against their will is unacceptable.

Exactly this!! 👏👏👏

But that is very different from deciding that being an NHS admin is a poor sort of job - it may not be what the OP wants, but it is perfectly respectable.

Respectable. Ha. Yeah that’s the measure of a good job.

A good job for a 19 year old is one that will give training and prospects and room to progress. There are plenty of companies that offer that for young people who eschew university.

NHS admin is absolutely fine for a job while you’re at uni.

Of course it isn't unreasonable to be concerned if you think your child is wasting an opportunity. But that is very different from deciding that being an NHS admin is a poor sort of job - it may not be what the OP wants, but it is perfectly respectable.

But we don’t know what kind of a role it is, it could be a temporary role with no security and no career progression.

I have personal experience of this (from your DDs side) and would be happy to discuss via PM.