'Joke' or HR matter?

[MapleSyrupMoose]

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

I'm not defending anyone and I hate it but sometimes I think it's a case of times have changed. I remember in Uni selling nudes online was viewed in the same vein as getting a job as a barista on the weekends, so maybe that's why it's seen as 'acceptable banter' by these guys. Might speak to my team manager about all this once he's back.

I'm not defending anyone and I hate it but sometimes I think it's a case of times have changed.

Misogyny still needs to be challenged so that this type of behaviour doesn't become the norm and seen as acceptable.

I think talking to your manager is sensible. You don't have to make a formal complaint.

Young women are being sold an absolute con, because once you are on world of professional work selling nudes online isn't seen remotely like having been a barista.
Teachers, social workers etc have lost jobs when nudes or similar have come to light.

The double standards involved are ridiculous but women are judged pretty harshly for doing this.

The only person I know in RL who actually does this got a tremendous amount of grief from other parents at her dc's school. Although I'd be interested to know how they found out?

This isn't banter, this is all women being systematically reduced to the sum total of their physical appearance. There's a reason they don't do it when your manager is around, and that's the same reason that this guy whatsapped you rather than responding by email.

Please do speak to your line manager or this will get worse. Two incidents bring it clearly across the line to unacceptable ( although the first was enough).

'. I remember in Uni selling nudes online was viewed in the same vein as getting a job as a barista on the weekends, so maybe that's why it's seen as 'acceptable banter' by these guys.'

When were you at uni, out of interest?

If it's all so normal do you really think he'd say it to a man?!

They know it's not acceptable otherwise they'd do it when the manager was there. You know that. It's not ok at all.

Just seen there was a second incident.
Like fuck is everyone on it.
In a work setting, right.

Has the 9/10 bloke got his dick pics on it ? Guessing not.

@SparkyLauz

Youre both young, he obviously finds you attractive I'd take it as a compliment and a joke and just let it slide. He probably didn't have a clue that this could be taken offensively. Lads that age usually don't but if he says anything else to you and you're not comfortable with it then let him know. Getting HR involved without even giving him a warning chance first would be a bit mean, he could end up losing his job for sexual harassment!

agree

@fairycakes1234 have you actually read the full thread or at least the OPs updates?

Women should consider sexual harassment a compliment..... seriously,I give up.

If he genuinely considered it an innocent comment why did he move the conversation to her personal number and not say it using official work channels?? Because he knows exactly what he's doing, that's why.

Did someone really just suggest he said those offensive things because he likes OP, or am I trapped in some unreconstructed nightmare from the 1970s? 🤦🏼‍♀️

OP. Stop defending them. Just stop it. You may be able to handle this think of 19 year old you just starting out and being in this meeting?

You owe it to all of us to take this to your manager's manager and HR immediately. I really can't believe you're dithering. This makes you, much as i hate to say it, part of the problem. I wonder how many other meetings they've had with one or two women? have you ever left a meeting before any of these men? Do you think you're a 9?

also @SparkyLauz and @fairycakes1234 can get in the freakin' sea with that attitude.

It is no WONDER nothing changes.

If something someone is saying is so bad that they could lose their jobs because of it, then the recipients should not gave to just "let it go".

Just seen the update. I can't believe they would say this in front of you!!! Of course, they shouldn't say it at all! I would absolutely escalate this and speak to your manager.

Op this is awful! You might think times have changed and indeed they have in a technological sense, but this is not new, I'm afraid. It's the same old shit in a different format - 40 years ago it was page 3 girls torn out of the newspaper and pinned up on the wall, and the banter was just as disrespectful only with more bum-pinching. Only you can know the likely ramifications of reporting but given the second incident, I would

@MapleSyrupMoose BTW, it's really good you felt like you could challenge the last comment in the teams meeting. What a fucking dickhead to not immediately backtracking and APOLOGIZING!!!

I have just discussed this with my husband who works for one of the biggest global companies in a fairly conservative sector. If this was reported to him as a manager, it would be dealt with severely, if he witnessed it, it would be formally reported to HR and if it were repeated, he believes it would result in dismissal.

Times have not changed, you are working in a toxic misogynistic environment or you have a group of immature colleagues who haven't yet learnt what is acceptable.

The second comment isn't acceptable either! I work in a male dominated environment. Similar incident to what you describe happened with temp worker - he was gone that day. That's how progressive companies behave - responsibly and refusing to accept misogyny, or harassment to any sex. Distastefulness aside - where's the professionalism in rating colleagues appearance in meetings? I literally can't imagine this happening in my professional work environment, and if it did there would be swift repercussions.

In my work in many jobs there has been blokey 'banter' that I've thought was shit.

I've had a conversation started with me more than once with the aim of making me feel uncomfortable.

The difference with the OPs things is it's personal, directed.

At OP, and then at another female colleague.

That is worse and crosses a different and worse line.

Jeez WHAT have I just read?!!

NO! NO MORE of this bullshit around "culture has changed blah blah it's a compliment blah everybody's doing it!" For goodness sake have you heard yourself???

It's sexist, misogynistic and ABSOLUTELY need to be taken to HR and senior management.

You're so worried about getting a reputation for being a troublemaker (Really... that's not going to happen because you reported sexist insults, older and wiser you will look back and absolutely cringe to think that it would) that you're not seeing the FAR bigger risk, that you'll be stereoptyped as nothing more than wank fodder and a pushover. Do yourself a favour and get this utterly obviously not okay bullshit dealt with.

Absolute twats someone in my dh work was sacked for sahing something about 9 out of ten to women was an ongoing thing

Who do these tossers think they are! It's exactly as others have said, just reducing women to the sum of their parts. Utter w@nkers.
If you don't feel you can escalate to HR, can you ask them to circulate their policy on this? Reminding colleagues that it is inappropriate to speak like this about and to co-workers and is a sackable offence. Although it beggars belief that anyone would think it was ok.

Also, OP, can we assume these chaps all look like - uh... [insert hot & sexy male of your choice here]?

Speak to your manager about it first and make it clear that you do not consider it to be banter and it is not acceptable behaviour in a professional environment and needs sorting out If your manager laughs it off too, go to HR.

and no, everyone isn't on Only Fans. I hadn't even heard of it until last week when I read about it on MN!