'Joke' or HR matter?

[MapleSyrupMoose]

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

I think the comment “women like you are part of the problem” to the OP was, quite directly, victim blaming

From my reading of the thread, this was the only one that leapt out at me over 25 pages. The vast majority of posters are seeking to support and help the OP, even after her decision not to report.

@GuildfordGal I agree, the vast majority of posters have been helpful and sympathetic, and it’s a horrible situation for the OP to be put in. No easy way to handle it.

Mumsnet is not real life. I simply don't believe that everyone on here who says they would would report this to HR straight away/ at this point.

As I said upthread, I wouldn't. Not because it's ok but because I'd deal with it differently and say something like 'Ummm WTF? Why are you messaging me this?'. I wouldn't want to go down an HR route - at this point. I would probably tell a colleague and/or a line manager to discuss.

That doesn't have be terribly depressing - there is more than one way of dealing with things. And people on here telling me I and others are wrong/depressing/letting the sisterhood down should respect other women's opinions and decisions.

*Ask HR if there is a system for having an informal chat, without making a formal complaint.

Explain that you are dealing with the issue yourself for now, but would like to sound it out with someone in their professional role, just incase there have been other similar complaints, in which case you'd be happy to support those complaints with your own experience.

If there have been no other complaints then you leave it at that & deal with sleaze bag directly yourself. If there are other complaints. Then of course add yours to the list as a formal complaint.*

I think this is an excellent suggestion, and minimises any fallout for the OP.

Sorry meant to say, I don't believe that everyone on the thread who says they would report, would definitely do so. Not that I don't believe anyone would!!!

I'd be messaging him now making it clear that I've let this slide on this occasion but if he ever comes at me with that shit again I'll be escalating.

But I'm nearly 52 so I have zero shits to give about this bollocks tbh

I'm the same Candy - same age, same attitude. Not ignoring or letting it go, just dealing with it my own way at this point.

Maybe I am too old (mid 50s) but I just don’t get why anyone would ‘let this go’.

I am not suggesting asking for his head on a platter, merely copying the text to HR and letting him know that is what you have done.

It is not just the naked misogyny, but also the clear marking of territory. It is the modern equivalent of ‘no need to worry your pretty head about it’, with a little creepiness to add spice.

I wonder if you can speak to him directly, and just say, 'look I don't appreciate texts like the one you sent me this morning, its really inappropriate'.
I probably wouldn't speak to HR just yet, but I would speak to him. He can't really think it would be flattering to you to suggest that, it seems like he is trying to put you in your place.
If you let it slide he might think you don't mind.
I would definitely NOT engage with him outside work hours either.

@YellowFish12

Creepy. Report to HR.

Also, don’t email work colleagues at unsociable hours. Set your emails to delay sending until 8am or something.

Why? (Re delay sending emails)?

I don't get why we have to say "please don't be a sexist twat to me at work"

"don't be a sexist twat to me at work" in work-appropriate language is exactly right. Does he say "please" or worry that he's not soothing and nice and lovely? nope.

Why? (Re delay sending emails)?

It causes unnecessary pressure to respond, and isnt recommended. I know we all have a choice about whether or not to respond etc, but in a 24/7 switched on work culture it's recommended to avoid messaging out of office hours to respect work/ life balance etc

in a 24/7 switched on work culture it's recommended to avoid messaging out of office hours to respect work/ life balance etc

That falls apart as soon as everybody isn't in the same time zone, though. I often get emails at "bizarre" hours by UK standards, because I have teammates in California and Auckland, and it's never yet made me suggest selling nudes to someone. As it happens I deal with that by not checking work email out of hours, but if I do get an idea in my off time I want to capture, I email my work account from my personal account and then forward it when I'm back on work time.

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity

in a 24/7 switched on work culture it's recommended to avoid messaging out of office hours to respect work/ life balance etc

That falls apart as soon as everybody isn't in the same time zone, though. I often get emails at "bizarre" hours by UK standards, because I have teammates in California and Auckland, and it's never yet made me suggest selling nudes to someone. As it happens I deal with that by not checking work email out of hours, but if I do get an idea in my off time I want to capture, I email my work account from my personal account and then forward it when I'm back on work time.

I didn't say it was enshrined in law, I said it was recommended. You know? Like a guideline! So we don't burnout.

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity

in a 24/7 switched on work culture it's recommended to avoid messaging out of office hours to respect work/ life balance etc

That falls apart as soon as everybody isn't in the same time zone, though. I often get emails at "bizarre" hours by UK standards, because I have teammates in California and Auckland, and it's never yet made me suggest selling nudes to someone. As it happens I deal with that by not checking work email out of hours, but if I do get an idea in my off time I want to capture, I email my work account from my personal account and then forward it when I'm back on work time.

And also, where exactly did I say that the op sending emails at 7:45 was responsible for the creepy messages from her colleague? I didn't. Nor did I infer it.

I was answering a question about why sending emails out of hours could be problematic.

Why should it be a case of the OP having the responsibly of deciding what outcome she wants? She should just be able to say to HR ‘This is the text message I received from one of your employees. I don’t feel it’s at all appropriate, and am now handing it to you to deal with in whatever way company policy dictates.’ If they say ‘what do you want to happen?’ I would say ‘I don’t see why that would be my decision. I want you to deal with it according to however you see fit- you’re meant to be the experts, I want to forget it and get on with my job now.’

I know it’s not that simple, but it really should be.

And it’s fine for those that feel empowered to directly address it with the creep to do so. But if that’s all you do, you don’t teach the creep what he did was inappropriate (he KNOWS that!), you just teach him that he can’t get away with it with YOU. And he simply tries it on someone else instead. And depressingly soon, he’ll find someone who finds it uncomfortable but doesn’t have the ability to assert boundaries and feels they have to laugh along and be the cool girl and not be a prude. And then he pushes it, tiny nudges to see what will and what won’t be accepted. Until it escalates to something much worse.

It is so depressing.

But not in any way your responsibility OP. I can understand why you don’t want to report, especially when some actual HR people have said they think you shouldn’t-shame on them.

Wouldn't any action HR took regarding the creep be confidential between the creep and HR? So Maple wouldn't get to choose what happens to the creep or even know what action was taken.

Although if Maple did choose to talk to HR she could suggest anything which she felt would benefit her. (By anything I mean things like HR might agree that X amount of time can be used per month for meeting with a mentor).

Threads like these are a lesson in female socialisation.

I used to work in HR.

Please try and resolve this yourself first. Professionally. Just say it is inappropriate and you don't expect him to repeat this type of behaviour. Ever.

If he does in future, then elevate.

I do get exasperated on here (as another HR professional has said too) about the knee jerk MN reaction is to report to HR rather than talk to someone and sort it.

Another deal with it yourself post!!!

Bloody hell.

Not caught up so don't know how the thread has gone.

I had no idea that HR people felt this way about sexual/ sexist comments from men to women at work.

Is that the line for homophobic/ racist abuse etc for you?

Do HR really not get power dynamics etc?

Where is the line when hr would be interested?

If he escalated? To what? In what time frame?

In a male dominated workplace, it could jeopardise her job.

Is the onus on a newish 19yo junior to handle it herself with a more senior, much older, longer serving and popular male colleague?

What if he's doing it to lots of women? HR will have no idea about that and no records.

I'm baffled.

Note. I work in a male dominated industry. There's been loads of inappropriate, goady, 'banter' etc. I've never reported any of it.

areallthenamesusedup I do get exasperated on here (as another HR professional has said too) about the knee jerk MN reaction is to report to HR rather than talk to someone and sort it

Okay, so could you please reply to the question asked many pages back: would you give the same advice to someone who had racist comments directed at/made to them?

Racist comments are made to an employee in the course of their work. Would it be 'a knee jerk reaction' to refer it to the HR dept? Should that employee try to talk it out with the racist who made the comments?

Given what can happen when women reject men / call them out on their harassment, i am amazed to see HR professionals saying she should deal with it herself. She absolutely shouldn’t have to be worrying about how to deal with this herself - he’s so far over the line, and needs to know that professionally this in unacceptable.

Of course there are instances where colleagues should resolve disputes or disagreements without HR support. Sexual harassment, racism, ableism, homophobia etc are not those situations. Really saddened by some of these comments - it’s 2021 FFS.

@CandyLeBonBon

Why? (Re delay sending emails)?

It causes unnecessary pressure to respond, and isnt recommended. I know we all have a choice about whether or not to respond etc, but in a 24/7 switched on work culture it's recommended to avoid messaging out of office hours to respect work/ life balance etc

What nonsense. At least in multi zonal companies or those where one’s hours are t confined to 9 - 5 but flexed as required.

@areallthenamesusedup

I used to work in HR.

Please try and resolve this yourself first. Professionally. Just say it is inappropriate and you don't expect him to repeat this type of behaviour. Ever.

If he does in future, then elevate.

I do get exasperated on here (as another HR professional has said too) about the knee jerk MN reaction is to report to HR rather than talk to someone and sort it.

And would you say the same to a black person calked the n word in ‘jest’?