'Joke' or HR matter?

[MapleSyrupMoose]

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

I think its always easier to go straight to HR with a race issue as its tends to be always totally clear cut as in totally unacceptable no matter how they are said.

You are wrong on that, racism is like rape, you cannot complain about it without people asking what have you done to deserve it. I have never heard of anyone who has complained about racism not being asked… “are you sure you did’t misunderstand?” “She is lovely, I cannot imagine her being racist” (says the white HR woman/manager who has never experienced racism herself) or “are you sure you are not a bit too sensitive?”

At the end you don’t complain anymore because complaining of racism, no matter how justified, makes you look as over sensitive.

I really really hope that all the people saying "hi, HR here" really aren't

Me too

So what have you decided to do @MyrtlethePurpleTurtle? And how was Mr Toxic Masculinity today - any remorse shown?

Sorry @MyrtlethePurpleTurtle that was to @MapleSyrupMoose

@minou123

I think you’re on the wrong thread, my love.

Or the worst analogy ever!

[quote ZealAndArdour]@minou123

I think you’re on the wrong thread, my love.[/quote]
Oh crap!

Sorry everyone. I swear I posted on the other thread. No idea what has happened.

I'll report and get it removed. So sorry

@minou123

Q: I've inherited a house from a relative whose just died. The relative has rented the house, for years, to a couple. They are great, but I just don't want to be a landlord, so I'm thinking of selling. AIBU?

A1: ask the renters if they want to buy it
A2: YANBU, sell if you want.
A3: YABU. HOW DARE YOU!!! You must give this house for free to the couple. You don’t need the money and they deserve the house they've rented for years.

😂😂😂I know the thread you want!

CandyLeBonBon

I thought it was a good contribution to that thread.
Pity I've posted on the wrong thread. I'm too scared tonrepost it in case I get it wrong again

Just to be clear, are you suggesting that she shouldn't report it because of something that happened to you and you didn't? I missed your original post sorry.

I've not reported loads of stuff but I still think she should report it.

Fwiw and I'm guessing what you wrote but I have witnessed a lot of inappropriate comments female to male. Yes the power dynamic is different however I always have followed the idea that if women don't want men to do or say xyz then we shouldn't do it to them.

It pisses me off tbh as it's so hypocritical.

@TriteMale playing offence top trumps and dismissing another’s experience is exactly what your post did to the OP.

Look at the Ofsted report into sexual harassment in schools. Girls relentlessly pursued for nudes by boys. Constantly getting messages from ten or more boys a night. Imagine what that’s doing to the psyche of children. See how utterly insidious this is for girls and women, how this attitude towards their bodies persists, how they’re constantly being told this is all they’re good for. Your experience is not the same thing.

My example was just me reflecting that I laughed it off when it happened but really it was a similar situation. I guess it depends partly on how well you know the person. I'd say to my female friends as a joke "well, you could always find a rich old man" but I'd never say it to a colleague. The original comment may have been a somewhat inappropriate/poorly judged joke where he was being over familiar, or it could be a genuine reflection of him being a bit sexist. Hard to say as an outsider. Both me and my female friends say a lot of non-pc things to each other but we know each other well and I believe it's different if it's ironic or said in the knowledge that it's outrageous as opposed to being completely tonedeaf or sincere.

I fail to see how it could be seen as anything other than sexist. Even if he did mean it as a joke it's still a sexist joke.

'Girls like you' and the reference to selling nude pictures is quite clearly misogynistic and sexist.

Don't be so sure your female friends appreciate your 'you can always find a rich old man' comments either. If they are anything like me they are probably rolling their eyes at you.
Sexist comments are sexist comments and unfortunately they are everywhere.... just this week

Ive been sent a meme on a group chat listing the 'rules for women during euro 2020' ( basically our role is to provide sexual services , food and drink and to keep our mouths shut)

My husband was invited to a neighbours for drink via a group WhatsApp- he responded that he'd just ordered a take away and as I was out he had the kids. The reply ' ah Devils is out, hence the takeaway'. No. Thursday night is our takeaway night. Nothing to do with me not being available to cook.

I was talking to a friend last week about a really important meeting where I had to present something to colleagues. They told me to wear a low cut top as the would at least distract my male colleagues and then they won't care what I'm saying

And that's just in my personal life. Don't get me started on what I deal with at work.

Making excuses for this type of behaviour and dismissing it as a joke makes you a huge part of the problem.

Firstly I am so sorry you experienced this. It will no doubt be taking up your thoughts and you have every right to be annoyed by that alone.

For me it is inappropriate but you have every right to decide if it is something that you wish to pursue. Ideally that should not be the case but it recognises the world we are in - there can be repercussions.

I tackled inappropriate behaviour of all kinds in my organisation head on or through line managers for years. Particularly when everyone was excusing them with the ‘they are just like that’ as if we all had to just accept it as it wasn’t personal! I felt very confident in not being a bystander and speaking up when i saw inappropriate behaviour. I felt very strongly about it.

Then, in a senior position, I was bullied by an incredibly senior person. Ironically always in front of others. It wasn’t just me but I got it more than others as I am less inclined to be silenced. I spoke to a number of colleagues about it. Unanimously they felt if I had formally done something or even tackled it directly with him my career would have been over. So I gave up my moral high ground and looked to move position away. He changed before I did this and clearly had something stressful going on, professional, personally or both, at the time. Doesn’t excuse it but explains it.

So do what works best for you. You don’t have to better society no matter the cost to you. When he is at a similar level you might want to at least tackle it directly with him but only if you want to and would feel supported by others.

@pangolina

I would report him, and I wouldn't care if he got fired. In fact, I think the more that men start to get disciplined and fired for this behaviour, the more chance we have of it stopping. I cannot believe so many women are advocating letting it slide so he doesn't suffer any consequences. Genuinely can't believe it.

Absolutely this. Zero tolerance. Same in our schools. Then we might have a chance of stopping this behaviour.

We aren’t talking about body dysmorphia. That’s not the issue. We are talking about sexual harassment.

And hijacking a discussion about the specific problem facing girls and women whereby they are routinely sexually harassed by men.

It’s been explained how they are different, at which point you decided to try to make it about men’s experience of body dysmorphia. So basically any route out of allowing women to discuss an issue facing women.