The expectation of daily sex.

[Chillionice]

Being 44 yr old mother of 3 (13/11/10) with husband for nearly 15 yrs I would love some advice or reassurance about how to manage the sexual expectation.

My husband & I have may incompatibilities and underwent counselling 5 yrs ago. He has begrudgingly accepted that our sex life is not going to be as colourful or plentiful as he would like. A daily morning session seems to have been settled upon yet I still struggle with this. Eroticism was never a part of our marriage, kissing ended years ago & we are left with this daily session that seems to placate my husband but still fills me with dread and sadness.
I write this at 7.21 on a Monday morning having started the day, the week etc exactly the same way once again. This interaction between us to me confirms the loneliness of our relationship - both sides wanting something so different and kind of compromising on this middle ground. I frequently try to put off a dawn toilet visit incase my husband stirs and feel a lot of resentment that I can seldom start the day relaxed, dozing, contemplating bird song etc. Nor am I excused if I’ve been up with the kids in the night or have a challenging day ahead. It feels relentless, unwaning, an appetite I can never sate.

One of our incompatibilities that counselling could only do so much to resolve was poor communication. My husband is emotionally very distant and easily offended meaning I really have to just accept this situation and be grateful try to think it’s only 5 minutes of the day.
So anyone in the same boat with any advice of how to keep a positive mind for 5 mins daily to hold a marriage together, please let me know how you do it!!! Thanks.

Do you think he'll try to buy the DCs, with a bigger house, gifts, materially indulgent but emotionally detached activities? irresponsible freedoms?

Do you think they'd be swayed by that? Are you the 'imposing the rules' parent and him the fun one?

Do you really think he's meet their needs adequately? Put them ahead of his new squeeze? That they wouldn't feel uncomfortable around his dating and shagging new women?

This is easy to say but if you haven't been in a relationship like this where you are punished through sulking and rejection you don't know how miserable it is or what you would do to avoid it.

I realise it's more easily said than done @Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep
but please do bear in mind that you have no idea what relationships I have been in or what they've been like. Partly I was asking those questions of the OP so she could see just how coercive her H is being when he sulks etc. and partly I wanted her to see that she doesn't have to put up with it. Leaving will be hard yes, staying IMO will be worse.

You don’t say what he’s like generally though. Is he kind and considerate, a good father generally? What is the rest of your relationship like?

@BreakingtheIce Making OP feel she has to have sex she doesn't want (especially every day) is more than enough for this bloke/life to be awful, even if he's saintly in every other way.

And he's not kind or considerate.

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream "that's pretty awful, how on earth has your awful ex ended up with your kids!!?? I'm so sorry for you"
That's a simple question with a very complicated answer! I wont de-rail this thread or out myself with details - but the short answer is - however awful my ex was to me - he wasn't awful to his children and they've now opted to live where they prefer - for their own reasons.
@Chillionice - yes you are right you can swop one sadness for another - I'm not the only one either. 2 of my friends now have less time with their children than they initially expected post divorce - it does happen. I do still believe I made the right decision however - once I'd begun to realise the kind of relationship I was in - it had become intolerable to stay.

@me4real

You don’t say what he’s like generally though. Is he kind and considerate, a good father generally? What is the rest of your relationship like?

@BreakingtheIce Making OP feel she has to have sex she doesn't want (especially every day) is more than enough for this bloke/life to be awful, even if he's saintly in every other way.

And he's not kind or considerate.

No I agree. I’m just trying to work out why she stays.

The question is can you ever imagine enjoying sex with him again or has his selfish attitude killed it dead for you ?

Yes, and do you want to be in a sexual relationship with anyone, or just not him?

These ‘many incompatibilities’, have they always been there?

If ‘eroticism was never a part’ of your marriage what changed?

Obviously you need to free yourself from this unsustainable, unhealthy relationship and ensure you have a safe space to live in as a priority (all covered well by PPs and I’m pretty sure Tracey Cox would say the same). I wonder what sort of relationship do you want if at all and how do you see your future? It’s a lot to think about and no doubt feels overwhelming so having some counselling on your own might be really helpful.

@DragonLegs

That’s sounds awful even if it is 5 minutes of the day! You shouldn’t be dreading sex. It’s a two way thing you should both enjoy. I’d suggest having a break from sex at all for a while and then work on having it less often but where you are both willing participants.

This. Quality over quantity. Personally I think you should cut your losses and split. He sounds awful and I've only read the first post so far.

This is the first post I have ever read that makes me want to cry for you. I cannot believe you are still there. What exactly are you getting out of this? LTB and I don't say that lightly.

Do you really want to hold the marriage together OP? It doesn’t sound like you’re happy, or being treated fairly.

I'm placemarking as this is one of the more disturbing and sad posts I've read on here and would like to return to it later with hopefully some advice of my own.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

You OH's morning routine:

Wake up
Poke wife
Go have a shit
Get dressed
Eat breakfast
Go to work

Lord above! This is beyond wrong.

OP this may have already been suggested to you but consider contacting Women's Aid or similar organisation

www.womensaid.org.uk/about-us/contact/

Groups dealing with domestic abuse/coercive control type issues speak to many women like you who also underestimate the effect on themselves and their DC of living in this type of situation. You need someone with experience of this situation with whom you can go into far more detail than is possible on a public forum.

It is really, really common for women to minimise and normalise their situations as they get worse bit by bit. Its often only when you talk to others that you realise just how abnormal your situation is and how much DC see even though you are convinced you are hiding it from them.

@Chillionice

Thanks yes. I can’t bear the thought of losing half the time with my kids. A split would mean split access to them. A sad 5 minute shag a day used to seem bearable in comparison to every other weekend etc without the kids. But as you can see, self identity struggling with that now.

I'm sorry this is so unforgivable. Unless you've been raised in such a house, you have no idea what you are doing to your children. I read it every time on MN and it's just not true. You are hiding nothing and they are suffering and will only know that they are suffering when relationships aren't working for them, as adults.

Please, please, please get individual therapy for yourself. You will not be persuaded from anonymous people on the net. It's sad you are believing the story you are telling yourself. We all do it, it's normal.
What is not normal is the behaviours you and indirectly your children are suffering.

And for the record someone that selfish won't bother with every weekend. And they only will if you let them know it bothers you to get back at you.

@Chillionice I know it might seem like a pragmatic choice, you can put up with anything for 5 minutes a day right? 5 minutes of that for keeping the peace the rest of the time?

Except... it’s soul destroying, and harmful to your mental health.
I honestly don’t think you can or should carry on!

I also think that daily sex at this stage of life is pretty unusual and doesn’t seem like a compromise in any way.

IF the rest of the relationship is good, then he should want to work with you to find a way through this.
I’ve heard of some suggestions like having some nights (or mornings)of the week when sex is off the table so you can relax nad not feel under pressure.
For me - I don’t love the thought of it but find I often quite like it once we get going and feel it maintains the connection so if I’m feeling close to him and he’s treating me nicely I’m happy to go with a couple of times a week. I’d like less ideally, he’d like more, but I’m happy with that. But I made a choice a while ago after having sex whilst on the verge of tears that if I really don’t feel like it I’ll say no. And if he doesn’t want to stick around that’s fine. Good luck to him finding someone who wants to have it more.

But if the rest of the relationship is not good, please consider your future.

It was liberating to me when I realised I was no longer afraid of being on my own. That id manage and be strong. So therefore I’m less compromising in the relationship and won’t put up with things. It’s good at the moment and I hope it stays that way, but I won’t stick around at all costs.

[quote Ninkanink]@JinglingHellsBells I think OP might be putting up barriers because the truth is too difficult to work with right now.

The fact is no one here is going to give advice or suggestions on how to stay in such a horrible situation.[/quote]
This is very true. I've been a victim of abuse, in my case courtesy of my father, so this kind of thing was internalized with me as entirely normal. Abusive relationships work in much the same way. The term the psychotherapists like to use is 'boiling frog' syndrome: you put the frog in a pan of cold water and increase the heat very gradually, so that the change in temperature isn't observed until it reaches the point where it kills the frog.

One of the hardest realizations I think it's possible to face in life is to look in the mirror and recognise yourself as a victim of such abuse. This is especially the case if you've been in denial, or haven't seen with clear eyes what you already know on some subliminal level to be the case. It also doesn't help the situation if, like me, you pride yourself on a strength and resilience of character and strenuously reject the idea of yourself as a victim. (This was a misguided view. The strongest and most resilient of people can end up being victims if the variables are right. And this is in no way their fault).

OP, I'm desperately sorry. I also just realised my first experience with sex was in fact rape; a realization that's taken me all of 25 years. And even having had EMDR therapy to face up to a violent gang rape - this arguably being a much more traumatic event - the realization still hurt. At the time I'd thought I loved that boy.

This is going to take a lot of processing. It will be painful. Denial/minimising the seriousness of these actions will be a part of the seesawing between feelings you will oscillate through.

But there is no question. What you have been put through here is rape. Securing an 'agreement' for a tacit set of future circumstances in no way amounts to enthusiastic consent. This has to be secured every time - consent on one occasion, or in a very ineffective therapy session, does give automatic consent for the man to help himself to your body whenever else he feels like it.

Take it slowly OP, and be kind to yourself. You've just taken the enormously courageous step of posting here for help, and have seen (I hope) how wrong and incongruous with normal marital relations this is.

I feel very deeply for you. Wishing you all positivity and kindness as you come to terms with this

I WAS in this position.. kinda... dead marriage with a Husband who felt he had a 'right' to my body and pretty much constantly sexually harassed and abused me... feeling coerced into sex just to get him to lay off for a while, before the behaviour would ramp back up again.

I say 'was' because after a couple of years of TRYING to get him to understand that i would never be able to find my own bodies natural libido when i was feeling constantly pressured and harassed.. and him finally accusing me of being frigid or having an affair (fat chance, i didnt want to shag ANYONE) i finally left.

TBH, the kids enjoy spending time at his house, and i enjoy having a weekend 'off' to spend time with friends/family and be someone other than mum.. but ExH and i work quite well as a co-parenting team now the rocky waters of separation have settled.

I know i'm certainly a lot happier without him, or that pressure.

PS. please do not consider counselling on any other basis than individual. Counselling with an abuser is not recommended and can be actively dangerous, as I think your circumstances have illustrated.

In your position if I couldn't tell my husband how I was feeling and how he made me feel I would write to him.

Ask him what he gets out of it that a shower wank wouldn't sort.
Ask him if this is how he would want a daughter being treated.
Tell him how you feel. That it has to stop.

You need to find a middle ground but it sounds to me like you've left the marriage emotionally if not physically.

Would he want the DC half the time though?

My friend fought her ex in court over contact as he was abusive and he fought every step of the way. then she had enough and offered 50:50, he didn't want that either, prefers two weekends a month and a week in Summer.

My DC do not have contact with their abusive father.

I have a friend who's DD chose to go live with her father, because there are no rules at his. At some point that kid is going to grow up and realise how badly her father has treated her (she cooks and cleans and does all the wifework). She knows now too but enjoys having no curfew and no one checking to see if she's done her homework, nobody caring how she's progressing at school and whether she's home safe etc, for now it's enjoyable for her and playing off her parents against each other.

A man who is thinking about his dick constantly does not want the responsibility of DC.
Either way your DC are older and can make their own minds up where they want to be most of their time. They're also older in that they will be choosing to do their own thing soon anyway and spending less time at home instead opting to be with friends etc.

Worth considering when you worry about not seeing your DC because they have contact with their father.

My god. This man is an utter scumbag.I'd wager that he'd be terrified of friends, family colleagues etc knowing that he is like this, you should shame the coward bastard to everyone that knows him at every chance you get. Make a plan to LTB & stick to it.
One of the enterprises I have a significant interest in is a scaffolding company, depending where you are in the country I could send a few burly blokes that like a punch up around to him to impress upon him the errors of his ways. Pound to a penny says the cowardly bastard would shit his pants

Would he want the DC half the time though?

Abusive men rarely do, they just use the threat of 50/50 to control women.

My friend fought her ex in court over contact as he was abusive and he fought every step of the way. then she had enough and offered 50:50, he didn't want that either, prefers two weekends a month and a week in Summer.

I've seen this on MN a lot too.

A man who is thinking about his dick constantly does not want the responsibility of DC.

100% agree.

Yeh, my x did this. Never sees them now! That's my fault though. 🙄

That's my fault though. 🙄

Typical!

There definitely does need to be a change. Of course you aren't going to want to have sex with someone who is happy to abuse you. This is going to be hell on earth during the menopause. I've got a partner who is exceptionally considerate and caring and thanks to him, I got my sex drive back, but limited, which we work around. It's a shame to waste your 40's on him, this must be dragging you down in other ways, as well.

If I knew my mother was trying to gather survival tips to cope with being raped on a daily basis because she thought that was for my benefit I think I would be physically sick.

Do you know that something many adults who grew up in homes like your children's struggle with is the weight of guilt they felt as children for not being able to protect their abused parent from the abusive one?

You're not helping them by staying on this path of trying to endure his abuse. They will be aware of more than you realise. They will understand more as they age.

Please work on your exit plan. Maybe do the Freedom Programme course. Get support for yourself individually.

Definitely do not attend any form of joint counselling with this abusive man again - it is dangerous and advised against by DV bodies. For the very reason your experience shows, that the abuser uses it to tighten control by manipulating the therapist and normalising the abuse to you so you end up more trapped.

Just because separating isn't all rainbows and unicorns doesn't mean it isn't still the right thing to do or that it can't be a much better, happier, healthier life. Life is often a choice between two unappealing options.

It is really sad that right now you're so enmeshed that daily rape seems more comfortable and acceptable than divorce.