To think people are crazy to give the covid vaccination to their children

[Ilovewatermelon]

After being approved for 12-15 year olds , I'm wondering how many would actually volunteer their child to get the jab?

Why wouldn't you? It's to help you. Simple as that.

See below for the start of the list of signatories from the open letter. The medical professionals who oppose the covid vaccine in children include professors of oncology, clinical biology, microbiology, epidemiology. Hardly a bunch of mad anti-vaxxers, but I'm sure you will do your best to discredit them.

Dr Rosamond Jones, MD, FRCPCH, retired consultant paediatrician
Lord Moonie, MBChB, MRCPsych, MFCM, MSc, House of Lords, former parliamentary undersecretary of state 2001-2003, former consultant in Public Health Medicine
Prof Anthony Fryer, PhD, FRCPath, Professor of Clinical Biochemistry, Keele University
Professor Karol Sikora, MA, MBBChir, PhD, FRCR, FRCP, FFPM, Dean of Medicine, Buckingham
University, Professor of Oncology
Professor Angus Dalgleish, MD, FRCP, FRACP, FRCPath, FMed Sci, Professor of Oncology, St Georges Hospital London
Professor Richard Ennos, MA, PhD. Honorary Professorial Fellow, University of Edinburgh
Professor Anthony J Brookes, Department of Genetics & Genome Biology, University of Leicester
Professor Keith Willison, PhD, Professor of Chemical Biology, Imperial, London
Dr John A Lee, MBBS, PhD, FRCPath, retired Consultant Histopathologist, former Clinical Professor of Pathology at Hull York Medical School
Dr Alan Mordue, MBChB, FFPH (ret). Retired Consultant in Public Health Medicine & Epidemiology
Dr Elizabeth Evans, MA, MBBS, DRCOG, retired doctor
Mr Malcolm Loudon, MB ChB, MD, FRCSEd, FRCS (Gen Surg). MIHM, VR. Consultant Surgeon
Dr Gerry Quinn, PhD, Microbiologist
Dr C Geoffrey Maidment, MD, FRCP, retired consultant physician
Dr K Singh, MBChB, MRCGP, general practitioner
Dr Pauline Jones MB BS retired general practitioner
Dr Holly Young, BSc, MBChB, MRCP, Consultant physician, Croydon University Hospital
Dr David Critchley, BSc, PhD, 32 years in pharmaceutical R&D as a clinical research scientist.
Dr Padma Kanthan, MBBS, General practitioner
Dr Thomas Carnwath, MBBCh,MA, FRCPsych, FRCGP, consultant psychiatrist
Dr Sam McBride BSc(Hons) Medical Microbiology & Immunobiology, MBBCh BAO, MSc in Clinical
Gerontology, MRCP(UK), FRCEM, FRCP(Edinburgh). NHS Emergency Medicine & geriatrics
Dr Helen Westwood MBChB MRCGP DCH DRCOG, general practitioner
Dr M A Bell, MBChB, MRCP(UK), FRCEM, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, UK

I am very pro vax. Had 2 doses myself and took part in the AZ trials.

However I was a bit sceptical for DD (14). I was not sure she should have something where the benefits at her age would be very small albeit that risks are also vanishingly small.

I asked her though and she really wants to have it and begged me not to opt her out. She said that even if it is mainly for the benefit of others that's still very worthwhile to her. She is mindful of the damage to her education and her life and she wants to do whatever she can to have things back to normal. She says her friends have talked about it and feel the same. She said it's like boys being offered the cervical cancer vaccine which is something she knows I agree with. Good argument DD I thought.

Also I remembered about the Kawasaki like illness that Covid is (rarely) provoking in children. If enough people get Covid then rare things will affect substantial numbers of people. I think that risk is probably enough for me to support her having it

In the end I think she is old enough now to have her own views and to have it if she chooses to.

On that list of Drs I can only see 1 paediatrician. Not sure the opinion of a histopathologist or a psychiatrist are better than my own in this debate.

I've got a few mates who are paediatricians. I'm going to ask them if they are vaccinating their DC and if they are that's good enough for me.

My friends dd is a 15 and diabetic, her gp arranged for her to be vaccinated months ago which they are allowed to do. Not every child is healthy

@Lavender17

I wasn't going to trawl through every one of your list but I decided to randomly - yes, genuinely randomly - pick one name and simply Google it.

I chose Professor Richard Ennos and instantly found that he's not a 'medical professional', as you claim. He's a retired ecologist and vocal critic of lockdowns and government in general.

Get your facts straight before regurgitating bullshit you've found on social media.

I’m leaving it up to my teens. I doubt they’ll get it though.

Second one: 'Professor Anthony J Brookes'.

Happy to be a guest on 'TalkRadio' - hardly a bastion of moderate, considered dialogue - and talk to Julia Hartley Brewer about how there would be a reduction in cases over Christmas with lockdown eased.

You really should look at these people and what their motivation is before feeling smug that you have a list of fancy sounding names to impress us with.

I think given the status of the vaccine (ie it’s very new, we don’t have any long term data on it yet) it’s one thing getting it as an adult on a balance of risks and quite another for a young person who has no risk from the virus but may have a lifetime to live with the consequences if the vaccine does have any impacts we don’t yet know about in young people as they get older. I don’t think anyone is crazy for allowing their kids to have it, but I definitely think it’s a very different set of considerations to having it as an adult, especially an adult in their 40s and over.

Next one: 'Dr Elizabeth Evans, MA, MBBS, DRCOG'

Hasn't practised in over 2 decades. Was only in practise for 4 years.

"In 2012 I co-founded Stop Smart Meters (UK) with Mike Mitcham"

Also a campaigner against WiFi in schools.

Even without needing to google that list it is a tiny percentage of the drs in the U.K. who have signed it, and when you take into account the amount them who are retired then it’s an even tinier percentage.

Having the word Dr before your name doesn’t make you some sort of expert in every area of medicine and from what PP has shown it doesn’t give you perfect credentials either.

I'm in the USA. My older 2 have just had their 2nd Pfizer jab. Was quite happy for them to have it.

If children aren't routinely vaccinated, those who are clinically vulnerable but unable to be vaccinated will more at risk. I want every child to be able to go to school and meet their friends, so mine will be getting vaccinated to protect those at risk.

@RandomLondoner

After being approved for 12-15 year olds

The only article I read on this opened with the information that it had been approved because regulators thought the benefits to them outweighed the risks.

The regulators are the people whose job it is to decide if it's a good idea.

What makes you think your opinion is better than that of people whose job it is to make that judgement?

I don't think it's as simple as that.

I live in Germany and here, the standing commission on vaccination is probably not going to recommend that healthy 12- to 16-year-olds get vaccinated, simply because they have come to the conclusion that there is not yet enough data to assess the balance of risks and benefits.

Obviously, people tend to follow the recommendations in their own country but I think it's worth noting that experts can and do come to different conclusions.

It's not crazy to give a vaccine that has been thoroughly researched and tested and millions around the world have already taken.

Get help for your anti vax view

If children aren't routinely vaccinated, those who are clinically vulnerable but unable to be vaccinated will more at risk. I want every child to be able to go to school and meet their friends, so mine will be getting vaccinated to protect those at risk.

Who are those clinically vulnerable who cannot be vaccinated with either AZ or Pfizer?

I'm not trying to be goady but I see this repeated quite a lot on MN and can't find any concrete numbers?

From what I could find:

The vaccine should not be given to those who have had a previous systemic allergic reaction (i.e. more serious than just a local reaction, including immediate-onset anaphylaxis) to:
A previous dose of the same COVID-19^ vaccine^
Any component of the COVID-19 vaccine being offered
Or to individuals with:
Current COVID-19 infection or history of COVID-19 infection within the last 4 weeks.
Severe illness and/or a high fever on the day of vaccination.

And then information on the known allergens being in Pfizer but not in AZ (so it reads like if you can't have one, you should be good for the other?)

Again... I'm not trying to say anyone should or shouldn't vaccinate their children, I'm just trying to understand how this 'protecting the vulnerable who cannot be vaccinated in the UK' argument stacks up against 'protect the vulnerable / healthcare workers who are at risk of dying in the rest of the world'. (Not to mention the perceived bigger thread of more variants if we do not get on with vaccinating RoW).

I'm inclined to agree with the professor in this article:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-57374421.amp

But can't find any facts on how many vulnerable people cannot have the vaccine here? 20,000? I think that should make a difference to people rushing out to get their 12 year olds vaccinated if they are not vulnerable and have no vulnerable, unvaccinated family and friends?

@SofiaMichelle

Next one: 'Dr Elizabeth Evans, MA, MBBS, DRCOG'

Hasn't practised in over 2 decades. Was only in practise for 4 years.

"In 2012 I co-founded Stop Smart Meters (UK) with Mike Mitcham"

Also a campaigner against WiFi in schools.

Thank you for delving a little further. This is how these movements perpetuate: surface acceptability and credibility - which fortunately crumble upon further scrutiny. (The problem is that there is precious little motivation or desire to investigate more deeply, and so these 'facts' frequently stand as truth.)

@winched there are some people who won't benefit from being vaccinated because they are severely immunosuppressed - people like transplant recipients, those undergoing some kinds of cancer treatment, and those with disorders of the immune system.

@WhatMattersMost

This is how these movements perpetuate: surface acceptability and credibility - which fortunately crumble upon further scrutiny. (The problem is that there is precious little motivation or desire to investigate more deeply, and so these 'facts' frequently stand as truth.)

It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous, wouldn't it?

The expert on the news last night explained very well that this is an ethical decision not a scientific one. With young people the risks from the vaccination are greater than the benefits to them. The risks may be tiny, but the benefits are even less. The reason for vaccinating them is to protect others. So the question is, is it ethical to vaccinate a child with a vaccine that carries a risk to them for the benefit of someone else.

Where I live, over 12's have been able to get vaccinated for a few weeks now. My youngest is 19 and got hers the second she should. Why wouldn't you? Young people are less likely to get very sick from it, but it does happen. They can certainly spread it though.

@MarshaBradyo

US some states already are, and Germany offering soon might give some insight

Over 12's can now get it in all states in the US.

@SuperstoreFan

I don't understand why children need to vaccinated if the risk to them is minimal, obviously if certain children are at risk of serious illness due to Covid-19 then that is different.

Once all of the adults who want to be vaccinated have been done surely that is the end of it?

I have received my first jab and I'm having my second one next weekend so I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I'm just confused as we have been continuously told that the risk to healthy children is zero.

I don't know who told you the risk to healthy children is zero. It's lower for young people, but it certainly isn't zero, and there are children who have died or been seriously ill from Covid.

@HavelockVetinari is that right? My daughter is on immune suppressants and her consultant very recently advised me to get her the Covid vaccine if it becomes available to her. So much conflicted advise

[quote blissfulllife]@HavelockVetinari is that right? My daughter is on immune suppressants and her consultant very recently advised me to get her the Covid vaccine if it becomes available to her. So much conflicted advise [/quote]

Please listen to your consultant - you know the qualified medical professional who knows your daughters medical history and not some random poster on Mumsnet!!