Friend and I not speaking - who should apologise?

[AudacityBaby]

I’ve NC for this but a regular user.

I’m infertile and my friend has a toddler and a baby.

I was complaining to her about a work policy that was introduced in March 2020 that allowed those with caring responsibilities to halve their hours on full pay, whilst expecting those without caring responsibilities to pick up the normal workload and additional work created by COVID for no extra pay. A great policy but a pretty unbalanced impact.

The trade off we were told was that everyone working half hours would have to use their annual leave so that those working overtime could be prioritised for longer periods of rest. The problem is that this wasn’t enforced by the employer and now those who are back are insisting on using their annual leave for large stretches of the summer to cover childcare. Which is fair enough, but once again those without are being told that they’ll need to cover and that their break can be September onwards.

Anyway… I was saying to my friend that I’m knackered now and don’t know whether it’s time to look for another job. She said that in her view people with kids are doing something useful for society and therefore the role of those without is to assist them in doing that. I was surprised and said that I didn’t consider my role in life was to help parents, particularly - I’ll help others of course, that’s part of being in a society, but that’s not my purpose! I have my own things too.

She said that childless people aren’t contributing to society long-term and therefore they should be expected to help out like this in times of crisis and not try and attack parents who are doing the best they can and providing for everyone’s future. She also said it’s anti-feminist to refuse to help out as the COVID burden fell mostly on women with children.

I told her how hurt I was at how she apparently viewed my life and we’re not currently speaking. AIBU to be so upset? Is this just something I should chalk up to everyone having had a horrible year and perhaps saying insensitive things? Or is this a sign that we’ve outgrown each other? We’re not as close as we used to be and maybe we just don’t see things the same way.

And no, this isn’t a reverse - I hate the bloody things!

YABU - friend has a point / you’re being petty and need to just let it g
YANBU - friend was insensitive and should be the first to reach out

Oh good God she's vile! Tell her the truth - that if we're being really blunt about this then you are doing a far greater service to society by not having children, as the environmental strain on the environment per person is huge. There's too many of us and we are destroying the world that we live in. Less people mean less stuff, less co2, less plastic waste, etc.

someone in the pta because they wanted to do a celebration of lockdown and the extra time everyone had to appreciate the local area and do activities

Whaaaaa? You only snapped at her? I would have tried to brain her.

I'm one of those awful, useless pointless childless people living alone with no caring responsibilities. But January to May 21 was the hardest 6 months of my working life. I was exhausted by February. And 2020 wasn't too easy either ...

The last 18 months have been difficult for everyone in different ways. The OP's friend needs to understand that.

someone in the pta because they wanted to do a celebration of lockdown and the extra time everyone had to appreciate the local area and do activities

I do hope, for the sake of your PTA that someone has put her right in this? A few people may have had a fab pandemic but for the vast majority of people - with or without children, in employment or not...it has been stressful, painful and has adversely affected our collective mental health.

also parents aren't the only carers. It is quite conceivable that some people work (full or part-time), have children and are caring for elderly relatives or whatever.

What about people who care for elderly relatives? maybe wanted to get them out of a care-home when it all kicked off? Was any provision made for them?

The whole thing makes me Very Cross Indeed.

@Dustyhedge we had a message from the school reminding kids about us all staying home to stay safe... Except loads of us were key workers and went to work every day like normal.
I agree with PP that lockdown has been shit for most people but in different ways and it is hard for us to imagine how other people have coped and suffered.
I have a friend who was on mat leave during first lockdown and then working from home. She is now scared of popping into the supermarket or going back to the office but she didn't have the stress of homeschooling. Whereas I am relaxed about supermarkets etc as I was out at work anyway, but had to juggle work and schooling my kids.
The key thing is not being a dick to your friends about it I guess.

Wow, OP. Read your last update and my jaw dropped as I read it. She didn’t reach out to make up, she wanted to reiterate and dig further her awful opinions. I would have snapped by now if I were you! You sound very civil x

.

YANBU. I'm a parent, but can't stand entitled parents who think that the world owes them just for having kids!

I mean, I don't know her. Maybe apart from this she's amazing.

But she sounds like she utterly disdains you and regards you as a fundamentally worthless person. More, she perceives whole categories of human to be worth less - she has a caste based perception of the world. I would not want to be around this person. Who else does she consider beneath her.

So sorry you hadsuch an appalling and insensitive comment.She is being unkind and I would just end the friendship. Just send her a polite message saying that you are hurt by what she said and prefer to not to be on contact for a while.
The company policy is bonkers. Look for another job! (And check the legality of altering your hours in this way. Did you sign a new contract? Find a job and bring an action for constructive dismissal.

You could send her a link to this thread, so she sees other people's viewpoints

Your friend was insensitive and the work policy was bizarre.

But to be fair, your friend doesn’t know about your infertility.

She’s probably struggling to hold down her job with a baby, toddler and all these lockdowns (nurseries and childcare closing at the last minute, isolating every time child has a cough). The burden of covid has indeed fallen heavily on working mothers. Many mothers have had to give up their jobs or change jobs to cope with the pandemic.

I don’t think women without children should be expected to do unpaid overtime to help mothers through the pandemic!

But I can also see why mothers want to take most of their AL in school holidays and half terms. Many can’t make ends meet any other way! It really annoys me when women without kids or with grown up kids take several weeks of AL every school holiday, blocking parents from having that time off. Then the mothers have to book holiday clubs they can scarcely afford. I do think people with nursery and primary aged kids should have priority for AL during school holidays, even if it’s just a week allocated to them (and their partner tag teams the rest or they use holiday club for the other weeks). Isn’t that part of being a community?

Pre kids it never occurred to me to book AL in school holidays if it would prevent a parent having that time off.

One of my child-free colleagues has just booked a month of AL over the summer holidays, no particular reason. Luckily I already had 2 weeks booked. But it means our other colleague, with school age twins, cannot take any time off over the summer. That just seems spiteful to me as colleague 1 could easily take her month off another time eg September! Even the boss (who has kids) asked her if she’s be prepared to swap so colleague with twins could take a couple of weeks (holiday club fees for twins must be through the roof!) but nope, she ‘wants a break at home’ and it has to be this month.

Next time she asks me to swap shifts so she can take her dog to the vet/go see her mum/attend an appointment I’ll say no.

It’s swings and roundabouts.

What about childless employees whose partners work in the education sector? When are they meant to take their leave?

Do "caring responsibilities" extend to looking after elderly parents? Or is it just children?

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I cant vote either way as there is too much to unpick here so I'll summarise.

1. The workplace policy is fucking batshit
2. It is not the sole job of the childless or the childfree to prop up the lives of those who have kids
3. The fallout from covid surrounding addition caring burdens did fall, in the main, on women
4. Having kids or not having kids doesnt increase/decrease your contribution to society. In fact, some may argue that the world is overpopulated and more kids = greater environmental burden.
5. I am really sorry to hear that you had to have this conversation with someone who has kids, and you cannot, and have her have that opinion of the childless/childfree. She is at best thoughtless, and at worst, nasty.

I agree with all of this.

I have a child but was childless not by choice for a number of years

The burden of covid has indeed fallen heavily on working mothers

Yes, indeed. And also other people - I know of at least one person who had to resign as they were shielding & their work would not allow furlough. It was constructive dismissal really.

But the OP's friend was on maternity leave, then furlough. She wasn't trying to work full-time, as the OP was.

But it means our other colleague, with school age twins, cannot take any time off over the summer. That just seems spiteful to me as colleague 1 could easily take her month off another time eg September

people without children also want holidays in the summer, and sometimes they want to go with friends or family members who do have school age children. You're just another one that thinks having children gives you priveleges over other people. Hopefully your employer sees it differently

Wouldn’t let it over bother me. We don’t always agree with each other and if a friend comes out with an outlandish perspective on life I would shake my head in disbelief and let it go over my head. You know it’s rubbish. You go to work to do a good job, socialise and earn money. The last year has been a killer for so many people and people are more easily upset and likely to view things differently. You don’t need to apologise just make a friendly overture such as suggest a normal meet up and see what happens.

people without children also want holidays in the summer, and sometimes they want to go with friends or family members who do have school age children. You're just another one that thinks having children gives you priveleges over other people

Yup.

Nasty friend - nasty view - and I am a parent.

Just ask her to clarify how increasing the population of an already overpopulated planet is in any way 'useful'!

It's a batshit crazy work policy that will have really pissed a lot of people off. She's an odd one to think your role - and mine, my children are adults, my parents don't need caring for yet, and countless others - is to facilitate her life choices. How entitled!

Not surprised you're not speaking! Will you miss the friendship? Her views on this alone speak volumes. I mean, should you also pay higher taxes so she doesn't have to, and could have more money to lavish on her children? Should those with children have priority shopping, or entertainment rights?

Crazy.

Your friend is nuts.

Out of interest when/how do those with children ever take one for the team?

Over populating the planet isn't doing me any discernible favours.

People do say very odd things though. A friend once told me that I was selfish for not wanting children. "Selfish on who?", I asked. "On your unborn children" she said...

people without children also want holidays in the summer, and sometimes they want to go with friends or family members who do have school age children. You're just another one that thinks having children gives you priveleges over other people. Hopefully your employer sees it differently

She doesn’t have family with kids. Just her parents and siblings who aren’t tied to school holidays.

Taking 4 weeks off in the summer holidays when you’re not a parent? One week fair enough but 4? Taking nearly all the school holidays strikes me as deliberately vindictive or trying to prove a point! I asked her if she was going on holiday or visiting family; no she just wants ‘a month off’. She won’t even give up one week to the colleague with twins!

It’s not the first time she’s done it either. Half terms I now have to book AL a year in advance or she decides she wants that week too.

I don’t understand why anyone would want to be off during school hols unless they have kids or kids in the family tbh; it’s busier, noisier, kids everywhere, holiday resorts and trains and campsites will be heaving.

My boss has young kids so gets frustrated with this colleague too. She wants everyone to swap/change their leave when she has a family drama or pet problem or her partner has leave. She’s probably wondering why nobody swaps anymore!

@RattlesnakesUnfold I’m all for the idea of a community but I’ve yet to see any examples put forth of how parents can play their part - it’s all childless people.

Why shouldn’t they be able to take leave during the summer (lovely weather, other people also off etc.) rather than be relegated to September? Childcare fees are extortionate but that’s not the fault or responsibility of childless people!

I feel like I’m talking to my friend a bit now…!

I do think that the world of work could be better set up for parents. It's currently very difficult for many working parents to balance working, school pick ups, sick children, holiday care, time off for parents afternoons and events at school etc. I'm sure your friend finds things difficult and especially with the pandemic.

It would be better for all if we could make things easier for working parents - but not at the expense of working non-parents as I think this would be both unfair and counterproductive.