DP and trans child...what to do?

[Fiddlediddleriddle]

Ok so have NC'd for this, as I know it's emotive Subject for MN but I need some advice.

DS2 announced they were trans woman (so identify as a woman and that is how I will refer to them in this post from now on) nearly 2 years ago. I mean I say announced, she has asd and we have had 2 years of self harm, suicide attempts, school refusal. It's been hugely difficult for the whole family as you can imagine.

DP (not the father of my dc) hates it with a passion and does not support it. After lots of difficult times, will now not call dc after birth given name but won't use chosen name (even though this is a name that isn't gender specific).

Things are calmer, dd is now 16 and has plans for college, but it is unlikely that they will be independent enough to leave home certainly not without some supported or assisted living. My heart breaks when I think about how tough things are for her and how tough they will be especially being trans.

Last night dp asked something that I needed to mention dd to him. He ended up really cross as apparently I used female pronouns too often just to make a point and told me exactly how I could have phrased it differently. I didn't even notice...I mentioned the gender of my DS and it wasn't a problem as they are not trans. I was just making comment on something and used her and she because she is my child and I will love and support her whatever.

Dp was so cross with me. I apologised because it was late and I wanted to sleep and if I had defended myself and my child it would have caused an argument.

But I have woken up thinking...this is my life if I stay with this man. We have been together 8 years (known for longer) and if dd doesn't leave home for many years am I going to be expected to tiptoe round dp at all times when in my own home discussing my own child?

I don't know if DD will stay trans there are so many many issues but to me it doesn't matter I will love and support her whatever. We are on a waiting list for specialist counselling to help her unravel her feelings and she has support groups and CAMHS and school online support. Who knows what the future holds but she is my child, she is kind and gentle and so so funny and so so confused about herself and her life and desperately trying to find a place to fit in.

And yet in her own home she has a step parent who refuses to support her in the way she feels as he doesn't like it it is weird and it makes him feel uncomfortable.

What would you do if you were me? I do love him but I love my dc more.

Without comment on the trans issue, my initial instinct was with other posters saying that he's being horrible and unsupportive, put your child first etc. Which I think is right.

However, just to be scrupulously fair (and you will know this better than any of us) is it possible that this is coming from a (poorly handled and expressed) place of being genuinely concerned for your child and worrying that the way you are approaching this may not be in your child's best interest?

That's not to say he's right, that you should therefore do things differently, or even that it's necessarily any of his business! But presumably this is a man you live or have loved so I just wondered whether he might not be a bigoted villain and whether there's something like this at root of it that you might be able to calmly discuss and find a way to move forward together?

If not, obviously don't subject yourself or your child to a horrible atmosphere at home.

It must be so hard, I really feel for you.

What’s his reason for not wanting to accept the trans status? If it is because he finds it weird, that’s very different to not wanting to accept it out of concern for your child.

DP (not the father of my dc) hates it with a passion and does not support it

^ this dick right here. That's your problem.
I could not no matter how much I loved them choose this over my child.

Your child will be going through a rollercoaster of emotions and you have this piece of shit living under your roof who will refuse to call them by their new name then get cross with you for using the correct pronouns.

I imagine he's probably also a homophobe, racist too.

However, just to be scrupulously fair (and you will know this better than any of us) is it possible that this is coming from a (poorly handled and expressed) place of being genuinely concerned for your child and worrying that the way you are approaching this may not be in your child's best interest?

Seconding this. Trans is so difficult when caught up in ASD or other mental health problems. This needs to be entangled first. Maybe your DP has a point here by not accepting, you feel you and your child are attacked by his point of view so see everything as being nasty.

Still doesn't mean this is a good atmosphere for a troubled child. Just means there are two sides to every story.

Sorry lost part of the sentence

Maybe your DP has a point here by not accepting that your child is trans but something else is going on

@Gumbomambo

As a GC woman I’m very upset that a woman starting a thread asking for help for her very disturbed child has turned into this shitshow. OP I think you are doing your best to support your child under very difficult circumstances. You must make the choices you feel best. Your OH needs to join the party or fuck off. You look after your child in the best way you can. You sound switched on, you research and ultimately you care for your teen. Sending you my good wishes.

I agree with all of this comment. And reading back, the derailing was perpetuated predominantly by people, saying GC is anti trans, when it isn’t. Eg @Sleeplessem 21 posts out of 280ish, ergo over 13% of posts.

As I said in my first post and by so many GC women, advocate for your child. Men come and go. You will always be a parent.

I'm so sorry I didn't get a chance to get back on last night. I am just reading through and am going to respond to some of the individual posts but I just read that I may not be back so wanted to confirm that I am!

I was very aware when I posted this that this may raise some debate as the trans topic can be controversial on MN .... but I am reading all comments.

I also want to thank everyone that has commented. One of the issues has been that, in the beginning, as well as providing support to dd I had to think of her twin...they were both born male and ds needed help and support also. They were at the same school so this impacted hugely on him. I also have an older dd who was going through a difficult time at college and heading off to uni so dealing with dp became the least of my problems!

I hope that doesn't seem like an excuse. As we all know the benefit of hindsight means that I can look back and think, I should have done this then, but at the time I didn't see everything that was going on as I focused on my dc. Nothing bad has ever been said to ds about this I do know that, but that doesn't mean that dd's home is a safe space if dp can't accept this. It's been 2 years and now my dd is in a better place it's time to deal with dp.

Last night I didn't really speak much to dp. Planning on doing so today and I will let you all know what the outcome of the conversation is. I think it will only go one way and that is him leaving.

I'm going to go back and answer some of the other posts now.

Sending you love and strength OP. 💐

OP, if only we all had a time machine, we would be perfect parents. Or stuck in Groundhog day. You do your best. I think the overall advice is to take some time apart from your partner and spend time in family councilling, also for the benefit of your other children who will lose their step parent as well.

Good luck, hope it all works out.

Good luck fiddle 💐

Good luck OP. Stay strong. You are doing the right thing by standing by your child ❤️

@Fiddlediddleriddle You're doing the right thing OP. Sounds like you'v been supporting your children through a really difficult time. YOu honestly sound like a great mum.

@Fiddlediddleriddle I know how hard it is. You didn't go into this relationship thinking it would end this way. It is easy for people to say get rid, but it's very sad for you. My thoughts are with you and I hope you can navigate as smoothly as possible. Good luck

I'm as gender critical as they come, but if any man treated my child like this man is treating yours,OP, I would be out the door taking my children with me.

I think you're doing an amazing job for your kids OP, you sound so incredibly supportive and accepting. I'd hope in the future if this situation arose with my own DC I'd be able to deal with it in such a loving and understanding way as you have You know what needs to be done with your DP so sending all the love

[quote Sleeplessem]@CrazyNeighbour that’s a straw man, the article said people with periods, not menstruators.

It was more inclusive vocab as ‘people with periods’ encompasses any person who has periods. I genuinely do not understand the problem, how can someone be so triggered by this?[/quote]
I prefer woman, tbh. And I don't consider 'period havers' or 'menstruators' to be inclusive because it's insulting and confusing - think of women who don't speak good English or who have limited literacy.

The insistence that we need to categorise by bodily function denies us the right to identify and organise by sex. Sorry but my mother - post menopausal and hysterectomised - and I consider ourselves to have our female sex in common.

This movement (I'm resisting the urge to say cult) effectively makes feminism unlawful. It makes the mere recognition of sex a hateful thought. It makes organisation as a sex hateful. It can do one.

This movement (I'm resisting the urge to say cult) effectively makes feminism unlawful. It makes the mere recognition of sex a hateful thought. It makes organisation as a sex hateful.

What utter Rubbish. And it’s not a “cult”. These are real people, who just want to be free to live their lives.

@Bizawit

This movement (I'm resisting the urge to say cult) effectively makes feminism unlawful. It makes the mere recognition of sex a hateful thought. It makes organisation as a sex hateful.

What utter Rubbish. And it’s not a “cult”. These are real people, who just want to be free to live their lives.

If you can tell us how women describing themselves as women prevents them from living their lives as they like, that'd go a long way to ending this nonsensical feud.

And that's the last I'll say on that because again, we are derailing OP's thread.

If you can tell us how women describing themselves as women prevents them from living their lives as they like, that'd go a long way to ending this nonsensical feud.

The things people are saying are ridiculous.

1. No one is saying women can’t describe themselves as women. We are talking about one article that used the phrase “people who menstruate”. Presumably the authors were trying to be more specific / descriptive in their language , to make it clear who they were talking about , acknowledging that not all women menstruate and not all people who menstruate consider themselves to be women. This is no more offensive to women than an article addressing “people with high blood pressure” or such like. It in no way precludes people from using the word “woman”, talking about women or sex , etc , in plenty of other contexts - as they very frequently do. I support trans trans rights, I believe being trans is a real thing, and protecting the dignity and welfare of trans people is important. I am also a feminist, I use the word “woman” constantly, I think it’s important to talk about women, and female sex, and bodies. In no way are these things incompatible. It is your fear and anger towards trans people that makes you think this.

2. Trans people right now , in the UK , do not feel free to live their lives in dignity and peace because there is so much misunderstanding, suspicion, anger, hatred directed towards them. This has a very real impact on their ability to exercise their rights in all kinds of ways- including access to healthcare etc. Let me give you one quite directly relevant example. Trans men have a lot of trouble accessing things like smear tests, because our health system does not accommodate the fact that some people who have an “m” marker on their medical records, have a cervix and menstruate. Articles such as the one we have been discussing seek to address that knowledge gap, and are trying to be a little more inclusive. That’s all. Again, it is in no way suggesting that we can’t talk about women too.

@TheChiefJo I’ve debated replying now, because I don’t want to derail the thread further.

I don’t think it was you but earlier it was mentioned that ‘only’ 13% of the comments on this post were ‘anti trans’, again not you that said it but as with any prejudice, any number above 0% is too much.

But to your comment, I agree! I don’t think people should be defined by biologically essentialist characteristics, for reasons as you stated, like your mum, or women with eating disorders, or hormonal disorders etc. Biological essentialism has been used against women for centuries, so we all know how deeply problematic it is. BUT that article wasn’t arguing to call women ‘period havers’ or anything of the sort, it was talking about ending period poverty and providing better access to sanitary products to those who need them, and with its title it acknowledged that some people who have periods don’t identify as women. JK Rowling didn’t like the title and stated that people with periods are women, and that’s where she faced the backlash, as she was ignoring the fact that not everyone who has a period identifies as a woman.

I’m glad you didn’t use the term cult, as it quite derogatory, but I’m not sure how trans inclusivity makes feminism unlawful? Surely it makes feminism more inclusive? In a similar way to how a lot of white feminists have been criticised (rightly so) for leaving out or speaking for women and people of colour.

As I said, I don’t want to clog up the thread with this conversation, but feel free to PM me if you’d like to continue it.

All the best, enjoy the weather

Excellently put @Bizawit!

Bizwat
If it were just one article, I think we could live with it. Yeh the medical thing about smear tests must be infuriating. But hey I’ve put up with much worse from the medical profession.

None of this is a societal problem. It’s a systems issue. And if you call it people with a cervix rather than smear tests for women, far more women will be excluded as they don’t know what a cervix even is or that they have one.

Nearly 1/4 of women don’t know about cervical screening in the first place. Trans men generally know they have a cervix. So it’s all about feelings. And not offending less than 1% of the population. Changing the language to people with a cervix literally means more ‘people with a cervix’ will die. How the hell anyone can justify this is beyond me.

Women are victims and being treated as perpetrators. Threatened, silenced, raped, beaten into submission.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Bizwat If it were just one article, I think we could live with it. Yeh the medical thing about smear tests must be infuriating. But hey I’ve put up with much worse from the medical profession.

None of this is a societal problem. It’s a systems issue. And if you call it people with a cervix rather than smear tests for women, far more women will be excluded as they don’t know what a cervix even is or that they have one.

Nearly 1/4 of women don’t know about cervical screening in the first place. Trans men generally know they have a cervix. So it’s all about feelings. And not offending less than 1% of the population. Changing the language to people with a cervix literally means more ‘people with a cervix’ will die. How the hell anyone can justify this is beyond me.

Women are victims and being treated as perpetrators. Threatened, silenced, raped, beaten into submission.

But what I don’t understand is why you think we can’t talk about both?! Why is that so impossible?

Yes, of course we shouldn’t entirely replace the word “woman” with “people with a cervix”. Anyone who thinks that is crazy. And of course we shouldn’t talk to anyone using language they don’t understand- it’s always important to address your audience.

But that doesn’t mean we can’t use the descriptor “people with a cervix” sometimes when we want to be more specific/ descriptive / acknowledge that some people who have a cervix are not women/ some women don’t have a cervix! That’s important too.

Both are important. Both can and must be done.

You are using very violent and emotional language : speaking of women being beaten , threatened , raped into silence. You appear to be really angry (and apparently afraid). It seems to me that your anger is clouding/ warping your perspective and that if you could put some of that rage down , it might help. I don’t know what you have been through personally in your life. But there’s no need or justification for being so angry at trans men as a group/ category of person.

Bizawit, can I suggest you read some threads on FWR? So that you can see where feminism inclusive of male people actually gets you? If you feel up to it, create a new thread with the post about how you don't see a problem and have a robust debate. And leave this thread for a mum asking for support for a mentally unwell child.