Friend is too messy/dirty...long-term problem

[DumbestBlonde]

He is mid-40s, and has been my closest friend for about 18 years. His family had a farm (turkeys, potatoes, cattle), and then focussed on horses, which is how we became friends. It has never been romantic (although he a bit of a things about me at first) and I was married when I first took my horses to their yard.

The farmhouse was always - -- messy, I'm sorry to say. His mother was overworked by her husband (constantly buyinghorses and leaving her to look after them), so never had chance to look after the domestic side of things..... She worked so hard (for no money) that she missed a mammogram that could have spotted the breast cancer that then metastisised to her liver and killed her in her mid 50s.

Sorry for backstory...... Anyway, he and I have both come "down" in the world and now live a few doors apart - both in rented properties (and yet both have wealthy fathers as it happens).

i have unfortunately fallen into a pattern of following his schedule around his work and horse....Meaning that I have actually made myself quite unwell by starving myself to eat later. I have also usually prepared the meal, using a digital pressure cooker - so the food is at least very very healthy......

BUT - he is taking NO care at all of his apartment. And, I am sorry to say, it is filthy..... The furniture was brought from the farm and is very old and the soft furnishing s ae ingrained with the dirt of years. He will not wipe surfaces in the kitchen (I prepare the food there, to leave it ready on a timer for later), or the floor, or the drainer - pr antthing pretty much. There is a thick layer of dust on everything, from the skirting boards up. The only thing that is kept clean is my piano (by me), which is in his spare room, as my neighbours hate the pinao, and his previous upstairs neighbour didn't mind.

I fear very much that he never changes his bedlinen and I have seen briefly though a slightly open door, that there are just piles of dirty clothes, leaving a path to his bed.

He saves the serviettes that I have used....... (??)

I don't know what to do.... I have tried hinting - and occasionally say outright, "please could you just clean this little area?" Tonight, I asked hin to clean an area for the bags of cat food, and he looked so affronted, even though I said it quite kindly and matter-of-factly...

I cannot clean FOR him; I have done so before, and he gets quite offended (and sulky) about it. One occasion, back at the farm, it was impossible to even get into the house though all the tack and horse junk in the porch. I tried to, again, matter-of-factly, help him go through it - but he would not LET me do it (I was less attached/emotional), nor would he help me. It was so infuriating - and when the day came to leave the farmhouse (his father had sold it from under him), it all had to be done and cleared in one day because he hadn't done anything beforehand.

It may well be a trait, and it may well be depression of some sort - which I would understand....and try to help. But, for now, it is really putting me off going round and/or cooking - and it is having an underlying negative effect on the friendship.

How do I help him? (And the friendship, which is being damaged.)

@zingally

Oh OP, it really does sound like you've had a very hard and difficult life up to this point.

So many of the things you've mentioned seem very deep-seated and clearly difficult. And have been triggered out of you by people wanting more details to your original post. Which I'm guessing, to you at least, was a relatively simple post about a messy friend.

I don't really have any advice for you... Other than can you come up with ONE thing you could do today to improve your situation? Or at least reduce your mental burden?
eg: Mentally "write off" any horse stuff left at the yard. If you'd wanted it so badly, you'd have collected it by now, surely? If you can, think of each item, picture it in your mind, think a happy memory of your horse, then mentally discard it.
Or you could write a list of those items, then make a show of ripping up the list, and discarding it. You don't own a horse, you don't need any of the leftover "stuff".
THEN, take your key, put in in an envelope, label it "key for yard from OP", and drop it in your friends post box. Now you have no tie to the place any longer. Forget his horse. If, as you say, there's no welfare issue, you can just shrug and let him be.

Or, could you take your back-up pressure cooker out the box, and read the instructions? Find a space in your kitchen for it and plug it in.

Or, could you research new GPs in your area? You say your current one doesn't take you seriously. Then find a new one.

Baby steps OP. But you can change your life if YOU want to.

Thank you - and yes, so understanding; I thought there was quite a lot of detail in the post - but of course, and as is usual, things get expanded on and drawn out. Then it seems like over-sharing (sigh) and TMI... And I have ended up feeling quite quoite sorry for myslef, I hate to say.

The main/only reason the horse stuff is there is because I have nowhere to keep it here (rugs, saddle, buckets, handmade storage box that I admit is sentimental) - and by now as the tack room is as badly kept as his apartment (with added cobwebs, and swallows nesting), going through it will be a filthy job - let alone upsetting.... I guess I didn't really want to let go of the horse world, which I loved; I could NOT go back to being a hanger-on ) BUT I think I know of a charity who might want some of it, so I could at least do an inventory. I will never - stupidly - part with his bridle though (and friend's mum bought me the lovely plaited reins); it is OK on a hook in my hallway and I do periodically treat it with leather dressing...

The GP issue will be tough. There is really no option other than this Practice, which I have had a lot of "trouble" with (never see a regular GP anyway); I do fear that there are some issues that are going unresolved or diagnosed due to my inability to go (peripheral neuropathy, slight chest pains) - which themslves may stem from something I asked about (and dismissed) some time ago. They said, "Well, something will get you in the end". I am very scared of the damage that may have been done - and yet would no doubt be instructed to "Eat Less, Move More" (BIG sigh)

But I will, thank you, take at LEAST one baby step today x
You have pulled me back from the brink.

OP it sounds to me as though you are very very overwhelmed by the many complicated aspects of your life, one of which is this man.

You need to find the strength to make good decisions for yourself: seeking some mental health help and trauma counselling, as you sound very lost; potentially a house move or at the very least setting and maintaining strict boundaries with the neighbour who is possibly predatory and even if not, still not your problem; help with your ED.

Can you plan some steps to do these things? Is there anyone else you can ask for support, or perhaps see a different GP if you have trouble with your existing one?

@aibubaby

OP it sounds to me as though you are very very overwhelmed by the many complicated aspects of your life, one of which is this man.

You need to find the strength to make good decisions for yourself: seeking some mental health help and trauma counselling, as you sound very lost; potentially a house move or at the very least setting and maintaining strict boundaries with the neighbour who is possibly predatory and even if not, still not your problem; help with your ED.

Can you plan some steps to do these things? Is there anyone else you can ask for support, or perhaps see a different GP if you have trouble with your existing one?

Thank you - yes, I shouldn't be, but I am - overwhelmed (crazy, really). I just seem to have lost any coping mechanisms I might have once had.

I don't know how I had the "strength" to get through my life until this point - and it is now not there when I need it. So, I am trying not to give up, to be honest

But posts such as yours, and others really a help

I just seem to have lost any coping mechanisms I might have once had.

This is quite a global problem, currently. It's a post-2020 response for many - the year that somehow never ends. Just an exacerbation of the PTSD or small t-trauma for some of us.

You have maybe another 40 or more years ahead of you, and they can be the best years of your life. I really do think it would be best if you could focus on your own life and difficulties and less on the various troubled neighbours and theirs. Put your own oxygen mask on first, etc.

Do you mean the pregnant neighbour that I have posted about before? If yes, then I am at my wit's end with her too..... She is now nearly due (and so could happen any time) and just had a gang of kids - who were tormenting her not so long ago, and whose mother hates her - round on Monday (so just on the other side of my fence), throwing water bombs/balloons everywhere.

The apartments bare gated, so she is now ettuing these kids - not tiny - inside to run around at will

I was out, so missed the inevitable noise - but came back and saw the water all over the road and pavements - and pieces of ballon and water on my car - which I love (and she knows that), and that had been hand-washed just that afternoon.

I actually lost the plot I'm ashamed to say - and swearing was involved. With one of the kids (the littlest) actually telling me to calm down. I have not shouted like that in years. Later In was so upset I wanted to apologise (but didn't) and couldn't sleep, feeling like I am suffocating (the bonfire and barbecue onthe other side hadn't helped with that though).

She has avoided me since - which is on just over one day I know. But I am using it as the grounds for the boundaries to be re-set. An awful way for it to happen - but I really cannot let her invlove me when this baby comes along. I just can't.

I know when I had my ED, at my lowest points I still cooked for others and in fact prided myself on being a great cook and host.

I wonder if because nobody is caring for you, cooking for you, putting you first - you are projecting what you wish you someone would do for you onto other people and doing it for them instead.

Obsession with food in different ways eg making sure he eats healthily, fixating on his diet and improving it etc is very common in people with EDs. I've certainly been there.

You are still at the most basic level allowing your ED to control your life. You do not have a healthy approach to the time or manner at which you eat and do not have a suitable set up in your own home to make nourishing healthy food. You've removed food from your reality at home, a classic avoidance technique that means while you may no longer be underweight, you are still in the grips of an eating disorder.

There is an awful lot to unravel for you but you either start doing so now, put it off til later and lose more years of your life to anxiety and fear or change or most worryingly of all - you do nothing and live the rest of your life this way.

I've come back from addiction, ED, nearly losing my life in an horrific accident. I did those things with little support from those around me. I'm not saying that to toot my own horn, I promise - I'm saying it because it is living proof that it CAN be done.

You are clearly very bright and talented. You are also kind and loyal. That unfortunately doesn't mean you are well.

The codependency, martyrdom and ED combined are a mental health crisis. You need to stop focusing on his lifestyle and choices and start working on your own lifestyle and choices.

Do you have any social life outside of him? Hobbies outside of him? Friends? Family?

Can we help signpost you to some suitable services or perhaps some ideas of things to try?

Or would that feel overwhelming at the moment?

@unwuthering

I just seem to have lost any coping mechanisms I might have once had.

This is quite a global problem, currently. It's a post-2020 response for many - the year that somehow never ends. Just an exacerbation of the PTSD or small t-trauma for some of us.

You have maybe another 40 or more years ahead of you, and they can be the best years of your life. I really do think it would be best if you could focus on your own life and difficulties and less on the various troubled neighbours and theirs. Put your own oxygen mask on first, etc.

Yes, that makes "sense".

I sometimes think that the Trauma/trauma of my start in life has never really left me - but I have successfully (arguably) set it aside because, Hey, who wants to dwell on ther past, right?
(Also though, my parental-units have been the gifts that keep on giving, so that beginning was actually only the start......much posted about elsewhere.)

I did, in my OP say though, that my Friend is the one who is in his mid-40s. I am - not . That 40+ years ahead, could be far fewer. (As for anyone, it must be said.) Whatever best years I had, are gone and were wasted.

Before anyone wants to say that maks it even weirder - yep, I agree

You sound exhausted and at your wits end OP, sending love and strength x

You also sound very articulate and caring.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I know when I had my ED, at my lowest points I still cooked for others and in fact prided myself on being a great cook and host.

I wonder if because nobody is caring for you, cooking for you, putting you first - you are projecting what you wish you someone would do for you onto other people and doing it for them instead.

Obsession with food in different ways eg making sure he eats healthily, fixating on his diet and improving it etc is very common in people with EDs. I've certainly been there.

You are still at the most basic level allowing your ED to control your life. You do not have a healthy approach to the time or manner at which you eat and do not have a suitable set up in your own home to make nourishing healthy food. You've removed food from your reality at home, a classic avoidance technique that means while you may no longer be underweight, you are still in the grips of an eating disorder.

There is an awful lot to unravel for you but you either start doing so now, put it off til later and lose more years of your life to anxiety and fear or change or most worryingly of all - you do nothing and live the rest of your life this way.

I've come back from addiction, ED, nearly losing my life in an horrific accident. I did those things with little support from those around me. I'm not saying that to toot my own horn, I promise - I'm saying it because it is living proof that it CAN be done.

You are clearly very bright and talented. You are also kind and loyal. That unfortunately doesn't mean you are well.

The codependency, martyrdom and ED combined are a mental health crisis. You need to stop focusing on his lifestyle and choices and start working on your own lifestyle and choices.

Do you have any social life outside of him? Hobbies outside of him? Friends? Family?

Can we help signpost you to some suitable services or perhaps some ideas of things to try?

Or would that feel overwhelming at the moment?

Thank you - obviously you are so knowledgable - and what experiences you have had, and overcome! Yes, it does prove that it ("it") can be done; but I am struggling.

I sometimes think, oh, if only people knew ---- but when I have (irl) half-mentioned it -"family", professionals - it gets dismissed, in part because I can (or could) present myself well, and am somewhat articulate (or again, was). Which can be a downfall.

Which is worse do you think, for those around you to not be of any support - or, there to be no-one around anyway (or they are utterly oblivious due to the "act")? You are so strong, to have overcome without support, all that you have

As much as our lives are entwined - and wrongly or rightly - I know it is SO unhealthy, and no doubt for him too. I do want to break free, but to what (there is another saga, of a few years ago, of me trying to escapt to a narrowboat.....)? I feel stuck in this nightmare situation, with gradually waning impetus and ability to get out of it (let alone all of the other wider, aformentioned factors)

I have - or had, not sure at the moment - two other female friends. One is very connected to the pregnant neighbour, and anyway is quite hard to converse with - and the other is a friend provided I go and hang out at her place of work. They both feel "sorry" for me [we don't really have the same interests, but I adapt] as they think I have nothing to go home for, or to live for. I know, "friends" - well, other people to talk to, slightly above the superficial. Only slightly though.

Family - ha - well, I have posted about that elsewhere, so, short answer - No. Although, yes. Technically.

I am overwhelmed already - and greatly appreciate all input (some, more than others'), but suggestions (if not too impossible for me...) would be great to hear, even if I cannot take it all on board xx

@DumbestBlonde thank you. My son is doing ok, we see a psychologist and we are slowly progressing through.
I love that you picked something great about yourself, the fact that you can sing. I’ve always wished I had a nice voice, but I don’t. Do you have a favourite song that you like to sing along to in the shower?
I think if you can start with really small steps like doing one thing nice for yourself that isn’t focused on food, so perhaps singing your favourite song and enjoying the fact you have a great singing voice, could be the way to baby step your way out of this.
What else are you good at?

@Moretimetobefullyvaccinated

You sound exhausted and at your wits end OP, sending love and strength x

Thank you (crying again....) x

I just didn't see feeling this bad coming

professionals - it gets dismissed, in part because I can (or could) present myself well, and am somewhat articulate (or again, was).

God, I feel this so much. I felt dismissed many times due to being articulate, having a degree and then running my own business. It took many therapists for (brilliant) one to say 'bloody hell you've obviously always felt you had something to prove!' And I thought FUCK, they get it! I lived at a million miles an hour because I was always masking pain / trauma / addiction / ED etc and thought if I did 'well' be it at school or work, it must mean I was ok. People would be proud of me. The reality was, I was living a lie in many ways and that led to a nervous breakdown because I didn't ever deal with the reason(s!) I was like that.

Being diagnosed with bipolar and on medication has changed my life. You may well be suffering from anxiety / depression / other things that you need support and / or medication to overcome.

You must keep asking for help. Make a fuss. My god I wish I had made a fuss sooner. We are conditioned as brits and as women to not make a fuss. But we have to, to get the help we need when our mental health is hanging in the balance.

I'm going to try and find some numbers you could call to get signposted to resources that may be able to help you.

[quote JustJoinedRightNow]@DumbestBlonde thank you. My son is doing ok, we see a psychologist and we are slowly progressing through.
I love that you picked something great about yourself, the fact that you can sing. I’ve always wished I had a nice voice, but I don’t. Do you have a favourite song that you like to sing along to in the shower?
I think if you can start with really small steps like doing one thing nice for yourself that isn’t focused on food, so perhaps singing your favourite song and enjoying the fact you have a great singing voice, could be the way to baby step your way out of this.
What else are you good at?[/quote]
Thank you. Ah - hugs to you both... xx

I didn't even really realise it was any good.... I went to a drama group a few years ago (it was meant to be confidence building), and all I did was sing out "do a deer" from the Sound of Music, and the tutor told me that I was pitch perfect and should so something with "that voice". Needless to say, I didn't.

Not that I am a Doris Day "fan" as such - but Secret Love and The Deadwood Stage are my songs that I sing when out on my bike (although I don't get the lyrics right for the latter....). Also, even though not a woman's song, "He's My Brother", is one for singing when I ride along the canal in the evening sometimes ---- which is OK until I swallow a fly (and yes, THAT was a song I sang to conquer my nerves when I first got my horse).

I am also trying to get to grips with Never Enough from The Greatest Showman, but I am sure I am not as good at that as I think I am. That one is for the car, so the engine drowns out the really high parts - and of course, Rewrite the Stars

In terms of things that I am good at - well, I was "taught" to surpress activities that do not make money (and am no good at those that DO make money), so much so that, unless all my ducks are in a row - and they never ARE - I should not be doing something frivolous, or creative. Hence, my talents such as they were have never been developed; it would be such a waste of time when life is going down the drain.

I do so apprecaite what you are saying - I do need to try. It just feels wrong, in this environment, and with the problmes that I have x

I did, in my OP say though, that my Friend is the one who is in his mid-40s. I am - not blush. That 40+ years ahead, could be far fewer. (As for anyone, it must be said.) Whatever best years I had, are gone and were wasted.

I figured you were in your fifties, maybe. I still say your best years may be ahead of you, with a few tweaks...

Get that cooking thing out of its box and set up. Tell Mr Grubby he can have a serve of whatever you cook at X time (that suits you) or take home a serve to his place. Get your piano back and sing a bit. Join a choir. See if there is some therapy available to you, even a free course over the internet. Phone the Samaritans or similar for a chat.

There are 101 things a woman can do, even on her darkest day, to start to turn things around.

You have a million talents that you could stun the world with x

I will never - stupidly - part with his bridle though (and friend's mum bought me the lovely plaited reins); it is OK on a hook in my hallway and I do periodically treat it with leather dressing.

Nothing stupid about it OP. I keep my horses' bridles. They're quite personal I think, because we see them on their heads. And they don't take up too much space. I like having the bridle to remind myself of the face that I used to see in it.

You could join a choir. They're starting to meet again. They're sociable and fun. It's also a great way to find your voice, literally and metaphorically.

OP, I'm glad my earlier post helped you a bit. I've been thinking about you quite a bit today.

You mentioned things like rugs, buckets, saddles etc still at the yard, and having nowhere in your home to keep them... But in all honesty, what would you do with them if you had them at home? I completely understand keeping the bridle, as that's something unique to your horse. But an old rug and a bucket? You imply they are probably not in very good condition any more, due to the way they are being stored, so - being a bit brutal here - what's their monetary value do you think?

I'm not in the horsey world, so would have to guess... Used, dirty, poorly stored bucket and rug... £30?

Imagine for a moment that your old horse (who you said lived to a grand old age for a ex-racer) was your wisest counsellor... What would he say about that stuff? This is actually a relatively small thing, with zero practical use to you RIGHT NOW... He'd say forget/dump it, wouldn't he?

For the sake of £30 (maybe?) Is it worth it?
As one of my favourite sayings goes, "Sometimes the cheapest way to pay for something is with money."

I'd say you have 4 possible courses of action:
1: Do like I said before, mentally discard everything. Hand the key back.
2: Go to the yard first thing tomorrow. Take what's yours, regardless of the condition, then drive it straight to your local tip.
3: Go and see what's there. Photograph it. Keep photos for your own memories, then never go again.
4: Make ONE effort. ONE. To offer the stuff to a local charity/horsey friends/anyone. Give them an exact week to respond. If no luck, revert back to option 1-3.

I feel like focusing on the horse-stuff-issue is something you can solve pretty easily, without a massive amount of stress. Then I think having some success in something that has bothered you for quite a long time, will give you the courage to tackle some of the other things.

At the end of the day OP, what is right for YOU?

Sending you all the very best. x

Thank you zingally - for such a thoughtful strategy, I appreciate it so much xx

I do feel that parting with his stuff will be hard, remembering that I set out with the horse in a very different phase of my life, the hopes that I had, and the "price " that I paid. The large box that contains such a lot of the stuff was hand-made by my husband in what I thought were happier times

I just worry that if something happened at this yard, and my friend needed to leave, there would be the added issue (and stress) of needing to remove the stuff of "mine" in a time crunch, and that would not be good. The rugs have gradually been used up by his horse, even though mine was longer in his body. It has been a good use for them; there was a time when I calculated the value of the rugs to be more than the horse cost (no matter how much he went though Doncaster Sales for as a seven year-old..... x) I would not expect any of it to be worth anything, so would not really plan to sell (the only thing that would be worth much would be his bridle, and that's staying).

I have spent some time with my friend tonight, but could not bring up this subject, or pretty much any other. I am so tired.

I was also cornered by my pregnant neighbour, and I am afraid I was quite short with her. I know that she will find the flimsiest excuse to ask something of me, and I just have to be a bit cold, although that is not like me at all. A text message exchange with the (her) boyfriend's mother then followed (she is sort of a friend) and I tried to explain (she is not ever so clever, I hate to say) but she said that she and her husband are planning to go away "soon"..... If she can be planning that, why the devil should I be worrying about this baby arriving??

I plan to do an inventory at the yard tomorrow and take it from there. Even though it is out of sight, it is NOT out of mind - for all the reasons I have said, and because I guess it is one step removed, although does remind me of one thing in life that I sort of did well, but that is over now. My horse was my touchstone, and I still miss him - just knowing that I had done the right thing for him every day, always helped me to sleep at night.

I appreciate everything that has been said to me on here, and feel a wee but stronger at the end of this day that I did at the start.

Thank you xx

DumbestBlonde

I had horses, I absolutely know where you are coming from. I still have my mares bridle, sold the saddle as it was valuable, it was really hard to do though. You could give the bits from the yard to the Blue Cross if it's in decent condition? I found it helped knowing my horse stuff was being used on another horse (still hard mind you).

Now, could you divert your energies away from your friend and focus them into a totally different direction but still within the horse world? Helping at riding for the disabled or the aforesaid Blue Cross? Depending where you live there might be a horse welfare charity that you could get involved with? It would hone in on your caring skills, you could easily work at an animal charity in the office, fundraising? you are very articulate. Just a few thoughts throughout the day x

Ps You're clearly not dumb at all, after this thread, change your name to smartest blonde

@Moretimetobefullyvaccinated

DumbestBlonde

I had horses, I absolutely know where you are coming from. I still have my mares bridle, sold the saddle as it was valuable, it was really hard to do though. You could give the bits from the yard to the Blue Cross if it's in decent condition? I found it helped knowing my horse stuff was being used on another horse (still hard mind you).

Now, could you divert your energies away from your friend and focus them into a totally different direction but still within the horse world? Helping at riding for the disabled or the aforesaid Blue Cross? Depending where you live there might be a horse welfare charity that you could get involved with? It would hone in on your caring skills, you could easily work at an animal charity in the office, fundraising? you are very articulate. Just a few thoughts throughout the day x

Ps You're clearly not dumb at all, after this thread, change your name to smartest blonde

Thank you for the suggestions..... good ideas, although I will need to to check the condition of everything. Maybe it will just go --- but that would make me sad as well.... It's a no-win situation.

As I said in a prrevious post, I am really not sure that I could become (what I see as ) a "hanger-on" after all this time. Even in charities, there can still be clashes and bitchiness and backbiting. I started my horse journey - apart from childhood lessons, working for rides and disappointment - at a local animal sanctuary and, oh my goodness, the politics were horrible! Not to say I couldn't steel myself to try again - but you know what the horsey world can be like, I'm sure

I honestly appreciate so much that you have given me and my messy life so much - any - thought; it means such a lot. Just to be heard and understood means the world.

haha - thank you for the compliment - articulate? smart? I'll be getting ideas above my station next! xx

DumbestBlonde

I certainly do know what the horse world is like! Could you move across to a different sector? Cats, dogs, humans? Something to channel your energies into instead?

How are you feeling today OP?