Friend is too messy/dirty...long-term problem

[DumbestBlonde]

He is mid-40s, and has been my closest friend for about 18 years. His family had a farm (turkeys, potatoes, cattle), and then focussed on horses, which is how we became friends. It has never been romantic (although he a bit of a things about me at first) and I was married when I first took my horses to their yard.

The farmhouse was always - -- messy, I'm sorry to say. His mother was overworked by her husband (constantly buyinghorses and leaving her to look after them), so never had chance to look after the domestic side of things..... She worked so hard (for no money) that she missed a mammogram that could have spotted the breast cancer that then metastisised to her liver and killed her in her mid 50s.

Sorry for backstory...... Anyway, he and I have both come "down" in the world and now live a few doors apart - both in rented properties (and yet both have wealthy fathers as it happens).

i have unfortunately fallen into a pattern of following his schedule around his work and horse....Meaning that I have actually made myself quite unwell by starving myself to eat later. I have also usually prepared the meal, using a digital pressure cooker - so the food is at least very very healthy......

BUT - he is taking NO care at all of his apartment. And, I am sorry to say, it is filthy..... The furniture was brought from the farm and is very old and the soft furnishing s ae ingrained with the dirt of years. He will not wipe surfaces in the kitchen (I prepare the food there, to leave it ready on a timer for later), or the floor, or the drainer - pr antthing pretty much. There is a thick layer of dust on everything, from the skirting boards up. The only thing that is kept clean is my piano (by me), which is in his spare room, as my neighbours hate the pinao, and his previous upstairs neighbour didn't mind.

I fear very much that he never changes his bedlinen and I have seen briefly though a slightly open door, that there are just piles of dirty clothes, leaving a path to his bed.

He saves the serviettes that I have used....... (??)

I don't know what to do.... I have tried hinting - and occasionally say outright, "please could you just clean this little area?" Tonight, I asked hin to clean an area for the bags of cat food, and he looked so affronted, even though I said it quite kindly and matter-of-factly...

I cannot clean FOR him; I have done so before, and he gets quite offended (and sulky) about it. One occasion, back at the farm, it was impossible to even get into the house though all the tack and horse junk in the porch. I tried to, again, matter-of-factly, help him go through it - but he would not LET me do it (I was less attached/emotional), nor would he help me. It was so infuriating - and when the day came to leave the farmhouse (his father had sold it from under him), it all had to be done and cleared in one day because he hadn't done anything beforehand.

It may well be a trait, and it may well be depression of some sort - which I would understand....and try to help. But, for now, it is really putting me off going round and/or cooking - and it is having an underlying negative effect on the friendship.

How do I help him? (And the friendship, which is being damaged.)

When you say everything revolves around his work schedule and his horse, why wouldn’t it? Neither of those things are recreation for him, they’re what he has to do. The question is WHY doesn’t your schedule support your job and hobby?

Cook your own food, in your own house, at times that suit you. Leave him be. you can't fix him.

@Bythemillpond

He is his fathers son and you seem to have stepped into the role of his mother

You are working yourself into the ground and neglecting your health for this man? You'll end up like his mother, if you're not careful.

Walk away!!!

His mother was overworked by her husband (constantly buyinghorses and leaving her to look after them), so never had chance to look after the domestic side of things.

This is one of the most telling things you wrote. Both you and your friend seem to think unquestioningly that it is the mother's/ woman's role to look after domestic tasks, even if it makes them ill. Where is his father in all this? Why was it the mother's responsibility to do domestic stuff? And don't give me claptrap about it being a generational thing - they'd be pretty much the same generation as my parents and they manage to share domestic tasks.

I can't tell if he's hoarding or just messy. Using a serviette more than once makes sense (outside of MN) and horsey people are very often messy and acquire a lot of bits and pieces. But you have got some weird co-dependency thing going on. He is not your responsibility and stop avoiding living your own life by trying to make him live his your way.

So he's a grown man who has a job and can look after his horses but he needs you to be his carer and provide all his meals, sit around and wait for him, tell him what to clean etc.?

Do you work @DumbestBlonde or are you too busy waiting on your friend?

Why are you starving yourself to eat with him? Even if you choose to eat dinner together, if it's so late why can't you eat something before hand? Have a late lunch or a snack? Why can't he come round on the days he isn't working or if you enjoy the company make something in the slow cooker. You eat when you're hungry and he eats when he gets to you?

You sound rather obsessed with him tbh

Without saying he has any specific diagnosis or is even actually mentally unwell, he does sound like he has mental health issues. Your help for him should be focused on emotional support. It does sound like he is in a situation he cannot get out of and that getting a deep cleaning service and "starting afresh" would be the best plan, if he can tolerate it. As a friend, maybe you could try to support him in allowing that to happpen. And, again if he will tolerate it, support him in seeking mental health support.What you are doing now is actually not helping him. And it is damaging to you. You need to stop.

This doesn't sound like a friendship
It reads like codependency
Leave the poor bloke alone OP. He's an adult who can choose to live however he chooses.
If maybe you are having your needs met by your behaviour could you look at a more healthy way to continue? Could you look into volunteering? Our local homeless day shelter has regular volunteers who will offer one day a week to cook

Oh god, you sound awfully lot like an old friend of mine who I’ve slowly dropped as I couldn’t bear hearing about the ridiculous set up she was stuck in and was refusing to change, putting up silly excuses.

It was her wearing the blinkers, not the horses!

Stop living your life around your friend’s schedule and invite him to eat at yours at a sensible time that suits you. Leave him to resolve his own chaotic mess, if he chooses. You CANNOT CHANGE him.

I think it is a mental condition and you would be fighting a losing battle. He would need professional help and would need to want it.

You should just stay out of his house.

If you want to cook for him, ask for money for ingredients and do it at your own house. Then give it to him in a throwaway container or on a paper plate.

I wouldn’t get sucked in if I were you.

Neither of you sound normal! Why have you become this man’s personal chef? Have you no life of your own?

It’s HIS way of living stop interfering, saying to him to clean this area. None of your business how others live

OP, with the greatest of concern, your behaviour is much more worrying to me than your friend's lack of hygiene.

It's nice that have a friend living close to you, and it's nice that you should choose to eat together some of the time. But this should be something that works for both of you, not something that is making you ill, and which i wonder.... does he really want all the time? I think if he did then he'd come to yours some of the time? Are you imposing a bit on him with your care?

To save your friendship - and yourself - you need to take a step back. Find something else to occupy you to fill whatever void you are trying to fill with this friend. Eat properly. Look after yourself.

Whew - and hmm, much food for thought... - paron the pun
Thank you for replies and input - even the terse and incredulous ones; everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I did ask, didn't I?

The arrangement evolved to be this way - and probably due in no small part to my own failings (no longer married, I am divorced quite a long time, so not even a mother any more), and wish to look after someone or something, I guess

But I agree that he is in a lot of ways like his father - but is also easy-going (to his detriment, as it was to hers) like his mother. She was also a dear friend of mine - and her death was a loss to me too. He doesn't ASK me to do any of what I do - but he does seem to have some kind of expectation - a situation that has gradually grown into what it is today. He always seems so puzzled when I say I am not hungry (even if I am, I cannot eat so late any more.... see explanation below), as though the way it is is the way it should always be.

As for the eating (too) late making me unwell, I have to disagree with those who have said it has no ill-effects; it does for me.... BUT, it is also part of a a lifelong issue regarding food (part of a bigger picture), going down to 5-6 stone at one point, but now having rebounded horribly and am over double that. There are certainly some other physical consequences to eating so late, including acid reflux, which I hav only developed in the last year or so. Well known cause is eating late (amongst other reasons), and also WHAT is eaten.
Intermittent fasting (which is NOT what I am doing - intenionally) can mess with your hormones - especially for women, let alone your pancreas and entire gut can get - er- confused. That said, I am not advocating any partticualr styple of eating, and certainly not mine (which helped me to get/stay thin once upon a time, but no longer)

It evolved this way when my horse was alive and we would follow the same schedule after the farm was sold, and he moved and then I did. But in those days, I was unlikely to eat at all.... It seemed mutually beneficieal to eat - especially when I bought the digital pressure cooker, which facilitated a one-pot meal, on a timer, using healthy ingredients, and cooked in healthy way. I don't have a cooker at my house (part of my ED). It is also impossible (open plan) to get rid of cooking smells, so eating at home is just uncooked or snack type food - if that.

Yes, I have issues. And whoever says co-dependency is probably right ; when I moved here, it WAS convenient for the horses and for us to travel to them together (and yes, someone has said people who are hard-up shouldn't have horses..... well, there is only one left - and besides, my friend ISN'T hard-up, he can afford the one he has - and before the other one died, the two....). Mine is dead now anyway, and in part, due to the yard being unkempt, I don't help him with his remaining one (who is too strong and badly behaved for me to handle now). Having said that, I did the other Sunday morning - having driven past one day - say let's go and poo-pick the field together. But he discouraged me from going near the stable buildings (up the drive, away from the field) - and in a way, I am just as bad, as all my horse's tack/rugs are still there, adding to the clutter. (And the person who rent out the field, yard and buildings are even more shocking! I actually really disliked it there anyway. And sad memories.)

I do not like that I have become something of a mother-figure, let alone, behaving a way that his own mother did; but it has been well-intentioned - but reading through these replies is making me so ashamed of what I have done, and am doing. Thank you if anyone has said I am a "nice person"; I have really meant well - but it is taking such a downward turn now.

As for a grown man being able to cook. He would only eat ready meals, Pot Noodles before. I have passed on to him some of the recipes and he has occasionally made say spag bol or casserole-types (with Quorn) and even my healthy green soup.

I thought today that I could get a one-off clean done for him - but I am so ashamed of the place, I can't - and primarily, I am sure he would be pissed off and possibly upset (I would leave the bedroom and bathroom out of it though). I have actively avoided being asked to be there for the gas or solar inspections, in case the visitors think I live there....

I am so sorry, I am late coming back to this; all of these replies have come while I was asleep (I honestly thought there would be none), so it might look as though I posted and ran but that's not so. And am sure I have missed some points that I should respond to, so apolgise in advance for a few more posts that may follow.

Oh, and someone said "Your life is complicated" - yep - empty of everything that is important. But still - somehow - complicated. Or, I am a complicated (i.e. human) person.

@soreenqueen21

OP, I've just clocked your username. You're the one with the massive savior complex who can't stop meddling in other people's lives, right?

Not to be rude, but genuinely, you need professional help. See a GP, soon.

TWO people - a friendship of 18 years, that is disintegrating - and a vulnerable pregnant person with diagnosed attachment disorder, who already knew me slightly and moved in next door.

It is not my choice to have what you call "saviour complex"..... Is that really what wanting to help - and getting it wrong ---- is??

You should see me when it comes to animals

So, you're eating disordered, have no reason to associate with him at all, now your horse is dead and you can't fathom how to change him?

Sweetheart, change yourself.

Seek therapy about your disordered eating at least.

Find a job, a course, a hobby of some sort to keep yourself occupied.

You are too enmeshed with a guy whose only connection is you were friends with his mum.

Your language is very telling 'come down in the world', 'not even a mum anymore' - it sounds like your trying to find purpose in looking after this guy and that's not necessarily wrong but it sounds like you need to find something in your life for you on your own terms. Not as a wife, mother or carer, something for yourself.

@soreenqueen21

Two people who you are massively over invested in to a seriously unhealthy degree...and yes, it absolutely is your choice. Who else's choice is it?

I mean (i used all my limited eloquence in my long reply) that I think I am helping, as a "normal" person would, and would NOT have thought of it as a Saviour Complex. It's only two people - and one of them came to live nearby making demands wihtout my wanting her to (in fact, I definitely DIDN'T want her to - move here/make demands, that is) - so I would not have thought it either "massive", nor "saviour" - just being thoughtful.

@soreenqueen21

OP, I've just clocked your username. You're the one with the massive savior complex who can't stop meddling in other people's lives, right?

Not to be rude, but genuinely, you need professional help. See a GP, soon.

Ahhhh now it's clearer.

having driven past one day - say let's go and poo-pick the field together. But he discouraged me from going near the stable buildings (up the drive, away from the field) - and in a way, I am just as bad, as all my horse's tack/rugs are still there,

OP, I can see a red flag waving here. Why doesn't he want you near the field and buildings. Is his horse OK?

Why don't you collect your tack, take it home, clean it and sell it? Use the money raised for something for yourself.

Yet again I read a thread where a woman describes someone's unreasonable behaviour and then says 'I can't discuss it with him/ask him to change/ whatever because he will be upset'
Why does it matter if he is upset? He DOESN'T CARE that his filthiness is upsetting you. he is happy to have you wait on him in disgusting surroundings and have you feeling repulsed.
Upset him - he deserves to be upset, he's a dirty slob - stop enabling this.
Tell him you aren't cooking at his house any more, cook your on food in a pressure cooker or slow cooker or microwave or whatever you have available. So what if that means he lives of pot noodles - he's got choices - learn to cook or clean up his act or eat TV dinners - it won't kill him.
Eat when you want to - stop making yourself ill (and unlike some others I know eating late can make you unwell) get something from the doctor for you acid reflux - there's no need to suffer with that.
See to your horse when you want to not when he says - why is he dictating everything. You've become his slave and for some reason think that you can't change this or refuse to buy into it.
You can - it's simple. Practise saying 'I'm not cooking here it's dirty and you won;t clean' 'I'm dealing with my horse now because that suits me'

This is a bizarre situation that has arisen - but if you don;t want to be running round a dirty man who isn't even your partner for the rest of your life, then say something and take action. Heaven forbid Mr Dirty should be upset - for goodness sake, put yourself first, how dare he treat you like a skivvy.

@Gingernaut

So, you're eating disordered, have no reason to associate with him at all, now your horse is dead and you can't fathom how to change him?

Sweetheart, change yourself.

Seek therapy about your disordered eating at least.

Find a job, a course, a hobby of some sort to keep yourself occupied.

You are too enmeshed with a guy whose only connection is you were friends with his mum.

Thank you.

I had therapy of sorts for the best part of a year (not NHS, but an ED organisation/charity. I could have self-referred again, but then, CoVid -and the waiting list closed) The GP won't take any notice because they don't take me seriously any more.

I was frends with them all (his parents primarily at first - like I said THIS just evolved) - and even at the start, I ended up following their schedule. It was very weird, and came out of them having too many horses, no staff and my - then - looking for something fulfilling (I also worked in three jobs at the time - and did have a husband and daugher as well), and being a part of the horse world..... Ironically, it shrunk my life rather than enhanced it as when they went off to events, rather than ask me along, they left me to look after the yard...

If I am a martyr, it is unintentional.