Friend is too messy/dirty...long-term problem

[DumbestBlonde]

He is mid-40s, and has been my closest friend for about 18 years. His family had a farm (turkeys, potatoes, cattle), and then focussed on horses, which is how we became friends. It has never been romantic (although he a bit of a things about me at first) and I was married when I first took my horses to their yard.

The farmhouse was always - -- messy, I'm sorry to say. His mother was overworked by her husband (constantly buyinghorses and leaving her to look after them), so never had chance to look after the domestic side of things..... She worked so hard (for no money) that she missed a mammogram that could have spotted the breast cancer that then metastisised to her liver and killed her in her mid 50s.

Sorry for backstory...... Anyway, he and I have both come "down" in the world and now live a few doors apart - both in rented properties (and yet both have wealthy fathers as it happens).

i have unfortunately fallen into a pattern of following his schedule around his work and horse....Meaning that I have actually made myself quite unwell by starving myself to eat later. I have also usually prepared the meal, using a digital pressure cooker - so the food is at least very very healthy......

BUT - he is taking NO care at all of his apartment. And, I am sorry to say, it is filthy..... The furniture was brought from the farm and is very old and the soft furnishing s ae ingrained with the dirt of years. He will not wipe surfaces in the kitchen (I prepare the food there, to leave it ready on a timer for later), or the floor, or the drainer - pr antthing pretty much. There is a thick layer of dust on everything, from the skirting boards up. The only thing that is kept clean is my piano (by me), which is in his spare room, as my neighbours hate the pinao, and his previous upstairs neighbour didn't mind.

I fear very much that he never changes his bedlinen and I have seen briefly though a slightly open door, that there are just piles of dirty clothes, leaving a path to his bed.

He saves the serviettes that I have used....... (??)

I don't know what to do.... I have tried hinting - and occasionally say outright, "please could you just clean this little area?" Tonight, I asked hin to clean an area for the bags of cat food, and he looked so affronted, even though I said it quite kindly and matter-of-factly...

I cannot clean FOR him; I have done so before, and he gets quite offended (and sulky) about it. One occasion, back at the farm, it was impossible to even get into the house though all the tack and horse junk in the porch. I tried to, again, matter-of-factly, help him go through it - but he would not LET me do it (I was less attached/emotional), nor would he help me. It was so infuriating - and when the day came to leave the farmhouse (his father had sold it from under him), it all had to be done and cleared in one day because he hadn't done anything beforehand.

It may well be a trait, and it may well be depression of some sort - which I would understand....and try to help. But, for now, it is really putting me off going round and/or cooking - and it is having an underlying negative effect on the friendship.

How do I help him? (And the friendship, which is being damaged.)

All these things you are doing because you choose to. Nobody is going to shoot you if you say nah, I'm not doing this any more

Not trying to be mean but all the stuff you describe is bonkers. You are doing this to yourself. Stop.

Could you please explain, in case I have misunderstood - why is it you go over to his house to cook? Why do you need to wait for him to return before you can eat? If his house is dirty, why do you have to cook there?

My view is he may be depressed, he may be suffering from some other mental health problem, he may just not care about dirt - but you are wrapping yourself around him and his way of living as if it is yours to sort out. The whole scenario sounds mad, really.

I think the food is the obvious place to start.

@Thelnebriati

having driven past one day - say let's go and poo-pick the field together. But he discouraged me from going near the stable buildings (up the drive, away from the field) - and in a way, I am just as bad, as all my horse's tack/rugs are still there,

OP, I can see a red flag waving here. Why doesn't he want you near the field and buildings. Is his horse OK?

Why don't you collect your tack, take it home, clean it and sell it? Use the money raised for something for yourself.

Oh yes, the horse was in the field while we poo-picked. Not seen him for ages so there was a bit of snort and step back until he realised it was me. As far as I can tell, he is fine. But still too naughty for my liking. When my horse was alive,I could handle both of them, but my turns to go, they were in a field that opened onto the yard. (And my horse was a good example.)

I have the bridle here (no storage) and am as bad in a way, not wanting to part with it (am sure no-one would want it). My friend's horse has pretty much gone through most of the rugs I think.

I'm sorry but thats just added to my red flag alarm. In the past he has hoarded horses, now he wants to prevent you from visiting the fields and stables even though your tack is still there.

Go collect your tack.
See if the horse is ok. If it isn't, call the RSPCA.

@VettiyaIruken

All these things you are doing because you choose to. Nobody is going to shoot you if you say nah, I'm not doing this any more

Not trying to be mean but all the stuff you describe is bonkers. You are doing this to yourself. Stop.

Someone earlier has said that I am blinkered - and they are right. I am so close to the situation, that I don't see it as others do - just "helping" a friend, having concern....
But hearing what other people think of it, of me - is really - whilst depressing - eye-opening. I am not sure it iis quite yet bonkers though?

@Thelnebriati

I'm sorry but thats just added to my red flag alarm. In the past he has hoarded horses, now he wants to prevent you from visiting the fields and stables even though your tack is still there.

Go collect your tack.
See if the horse is ok. If it isn't, call the RSPCA.

As I said, I saw the horse, and he is fine...

It was his father who hoarded the horses - as many as 33 on the yard at one time (not all theirs).

He discourages, but not prevents. I have a key, I can go when I want and he knows that. But I don't think he would like it.

I would of course, go and attend to the horse (if he didn't run away with me) if an emergency/illness required it.

The RSPCA isn't needed here, I promise.

and yes, someone has said people who are hard-up shouldn't have horses..... well, there is only one left - and besides, my friend ISN'T hard-up, he can afford the one he has - and before the other one died, the two....).

Horses can live for over 30 years. I completely understand how your fortunes can change in that time and how even if you are well off when you buy one, you can become poorer during their lifetime (often because of them!) And selling or rehoming them isn't always possible or desirable, so no judgement there from me at least.

If I am a martyr, it is unintentional.

OP I think you need help to realise what you can control and what you cannot. You make choices. You can extricate yourself. I found myself becoming far too enmeshed at one yard I kept my horse, so I moved yards. It was difficult but I did it. You could have done the same. You don't have to cook at his - and it isn't a normal amount of helpfulness. It is something women do quite frequently but it isn't 'normal' because it isn't healthy for you. Sure, life can deal us a bad hand, but you can choose how you play that hand.

@AmyDudley

Yet again I read a thread where a woman describes someone's unreasonable behaviour and then says 'I can't discuss it with him/ask him to change/ whatever because he will be upset' Why does it matter if he is upset? He DOESN'T CARE that his filthiness is upsetting you. he is happy to have you wait on him in disgusting surroundings and have you feeling repulsed. Upset him - he deserves to be upset, he's a dirty slob - stop enabling this. Tell him you aren't cooking at his house any more, cook your on food in a pressure cooker or slow cooker or microwave or whatever you have available. So what if that means he lives of pot noodles - he's got choices - learn to cook or clean up his act or eat TV dinners - it won't kill him. Eat when you want to - stop making yourself ill (and unlike some others I know eating late can make you unwell) get something from the doctor for you acid reflux - there's no need to suffer with that. See to your horse when you want to not when he says - why is he dictating everything. You've become his slave and for some reason think that you can't change this or refuse to buy into it. You can - it's simple. Practise saying 'I'm not cooking here it's dirty and you won;t clean' 'I'm dealing with my horse now because that suits me'

This is a bizarre situation that has arisen - but if you don;t want to be running round a dirty man who isn't even your partner for the rest of your life, then say something and take action. Heaven forbid Mr Dirty should be upset - for goodness sake, put yourself first, how dare he treat you like a skivvy.

Thank you for this; you are right I know.

Regarding eating - the main issue is that now I just don't want to at ANY time... If I eat late (no matter what), it is as though I have bricks in my gut the next day, and a vicious circle has developed, as then I don't want to eat. So don't. Until later, when I am starving.....But have no appetite if that makes sense.
I am however very interested in food, and make a lovely (no oven needed) cheesecake that I give away.

It IS bizarre, I know. And partly why I want to address it, without being unkind. He seems to just think it should always be the way it is now.....

If anyone is interested, I do know why he keeps the serviettes, but I didn't want to say - I rather hoped someone would fiigure it out

I mean (i used all my limited eloquence in my long reply) that I think I am helping, as a "normal" person would, and would NOT have thought of it as a Saviour Complex.

Can you see though from the replies on here that you absolutely aren't helping in a 'normal' way?

In fact, you're enabling some incredibly unhealthy behaviour by facilitating his lifestyle. He has no reason to change when you're doing the stuff he doesn't want to.

Being a martyr doesn't have to be intentional, you are being one. You're behaving in a way that is detrimental to your own wellbeing for the sake of someone else. As someone who has recovered from an ED I can tell you that this is dangerous territory as you're using his home to separate your recovery from your own reality aka your home.

It's codependency on a huge level and is inhibiting and controlling your life - your timetable, your anxiety, your eating habits and your health.

I didn't say you are bonkers. I said "all the stuff you describe is bonkers"

Which it is.

He DOESN'T CARE that his filthiness is upsetting you. he is happy to have you wait on him in disgusting surroundings and have you feeling repulsed.

This. Does this sound like a good friend OP? Because it doesn't to me.

If anyone is interested, I do know why he keeps the serviettes, but I didn't want to say - I rather hoped someone would fiigure it out

Can you explain? I don't get it.

Nobody knows if he’s happy or not. For all we know he may be supporting OP by eating with her as he sees her as an old family friend. If he’s only cooking pot noodles and microwave meals in between your dinners how is the kitchen so dirty? Surely you wipe down and wash up after the meal? Are you going there cooking and leaving the cooking smells and clean up to him? To me this reads like you are using his house as an annexe to your own. The noise and the mess and the smell stay there and your house is kept nice. . I think it’s quite easy to slip into things and never see what’s happening.

Can you eat out if you can’t cook at all at home, or cope with a delivery?

@BertramLacey

and yes, someone has said people who are hard-up shouldn't have horses..... well, there is only one left - and besides, my friend ISN'T hard-up, he can afford the one he has - and before the other one died, the two....).

Horses can live for over 30 years. I completely understand how your fortunes can change in that time and how even if you are well off when you buy one, you can become poorer during their lifetime (often because of them!) And selling or rehoming them isn't always possible or desirable, so no judgement there from me at least.

If I am a martyr, it is unintentional.

OP I think you need help to realise what you can control and what you cannot. You make choices. You can extricate yourself. I found myself becoming far too enmeshed at one yard I kept my horse, so I moved yards. It was difficult but I did it. You could have done the same. You don't have to cook at his - and it isn't a normal amount of helpfulness. It is something women do quite frequently but it isn't 'normal' because it isn't healthy for you. Sure, life can deal us a bad hand, but you can choose how you play that hand.

Thank you

I realised at the start that I had become enmeshed - and still I stayed. There were a couple of occasions when I had a lorry booked, and J (friend's mum - effectively my friend) talked me out of leaving. On one occasion, I was standing in a fully emptied stable and my horse was bandaged and ready to go. And I stayed even then - and had doubts anyway about the new place,which has since become massive, which I would not have done well with...

My husband hated it there (due to being "used" for his metalwork skills) - he loved my horse though (at first), who taught him to ride - and whilst I had my dream come true (I was mid-30s) he grew tired of the life after about a year (I THINK) and started a relationship with my "best" friend (who had also been involved with the horses) which I didn't figure out until it was all too late.
By then I was even more enmeshed, as my daughetr had a pony there and also we got a miniature horse. It was all quite ridiculous really.

My horse was 33 when he died (put to sleep), and I would not have kept him going through the follwing winter, so the decision was effectively out of my hands due to a sudden event. It was a brilliant age for a Thoroughbred who had done some racing.

Getting rid of them (by whatever means - I know someone who set her horse loose on a busy road in the dark.....) when fortunes take a downward turn is not easy, or possible even, is it?

There is something of a pattern that probably goes way way back. I actually end up throwing away my (already limited) choices, and even stop having any aims or goals, even though I was once upon a time, ambitious and believed anything was possible

@youvegottenminuteslynn

If anyone is interested, I do know why he keeps the serviettes, but I didn't want to say - I rather hoped someone would fiigure it out

Can you explain? I don't get it.

Well, once upon a time, I think I was something of a fantasy woman to him (I was not always the way I am now....). Can you follow that, without me saying outright?

Op. Are you implying he pleasures himself into your used serviettes?

I’m out.

@DumbestBlonde

So he saves serviettes you've used to have a wank? You can say stuff like that on here, it's ok to be crude...

Again, do you think that's normal behaviour for a 'friend'?

Look up co-dependency OP. Then try to remember you are an individual with your own wants and needs. Stop supporting this utter drain on your resources. Move away if you can.

Can you see though from the replies on here that you absolutely aren't helping in a 'normal' way?

In fact, you're enabling some incredibly unhealthy behaviour by facilitating his lifestyle. He has no reason to change when you're doing the stuff he doesn't want to.

Being a martyr doesn't have to be intentional, you are being one. You're behaving in a way that is detrimental to your own wellbeing for the sake of someone else. As someone who has recovered from an ED I can tell you that this is dangerous territory as you're using his home to separate your recovery from your own reality aka your home.

It's codependency on a huge level and is inhibiting and controlling your life - your timetable, your anxiety, your eating habits and your health.

@5zeds

Nobody knows if he’s happy or not. For all we know he may be supporting OP by eating with her as he sees her as an old family friend. If he’s only cooking pot noodles and microwave meals in between your dinners how is the kitchen so dirty? Surely you wipe down and wash up after the meal? Are you going there cooking and leaving the cooking smells and clean up to him? To me this reads like you are using his house as an annexe to your own. The noise and the mess and the smell stay there and your house is kept nice. . I think it’s quite easy to slip into things and never see what’s happening.

Can you eat out if you can’t cook at all at home, or cope with a delivery?

You may be right you know....

The kitchen is quite large. I clean the area and utensils I use he washes up the bowls and cutlery afterwards. The pressure cooker takes minimal cleaning (inner pot and lid washed and exterior celaned without immersing).

There are worktops full length on two sides and many cupboards, also the hob and oven, fridge freezer etc.....and the floor is not kept clean. There are no smells lingeriing when I make the food as there is an extractor over the hob, and the window opens nicely.
But you are right, I am too close to see it as objectively as the MNers are doing

Eating AT ALL is becoming quite the problem for me - even (especially?) takeways/eating out. In part due to NOT eating (enzymes, stomach acid and all that) causing physical consequences, combined with the psycholgical issues that have dogged me for my whole life that I try not to inflict on other people. And then, of course, DO.

Also if 'once upon a time' you were a 'fantasy woman' to him and now you say you've changed, do you mean you were a fantasy woman to him when you were unwell, incredibly underweight and therefore vulnerable? I don't know any healthy men who find vulnerable, ill women to be a fantasy...

When I was anorexic, I got a lot of attention from predatory men who enjoyed that I looked younger than I was, that I had 'issues' and that although I had a successful business I was actually very unwell and they could pretend to be so nice for taking care of me - which they didn't.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@DumbestBlonde

So he saves serviettes you've used to have a wank? You can say stuff like that on here, it's ok to be crude...

Again, do you think that's normal behaviour for a 'friend'?[/quote]
I just didn't want to say it though..... It's all part of the problems....

And no I don't think it's normal at all..I don't think any (or most) of what is happening is normal.

OP, this sounds very, very unhealthy.

I'm not suggesting he is intentionally exploiting you, or deliberately trying to hurt you. But you are no good for each other, have become co-dependent and it seems to be getting worse.
You need something healthy to fill your time with. To make you feel valued. To give you an interest and aspirations.
Do you work? (Sorry if you've already answered that). Do you have time to do voluntary work? Can you speak with your GP about your ED?

I really feel you need some professional support to find something that you love doing. That fulfils you. That makes you happy.

Op, have you seen you GP or a counsellor recently? This seems like the coming to a head of a crisis, for you, to me.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Also if 'once upon a time' you were a 'fantasy woman' to him and now you say you've changed, do you mean you were a fantasy woman to him when you were unwell, incredibly underweight and therefore vulnerable? I don't know any healthy men who find vulnerable, ill women to be a fantasy...

When I was anorexic, I got a lot of attention from predatory men who enjoyed that I looked younger than I was, that I had 'issues' and that although I had a successful business I was actually very unwell and they could pretend to be so nice for taking care of me - which they didn't.

I am not sure why I was fantay-figure to him. Admittedly, before I got so thin, I was quite OK to look at - tanned and toned, blonde etc etc - a "type", if you know what I mean. (To some men....)

When I got very very thin, there MIGHT have been an aspect of him homing in on the perceived vulnerability - this happened twice, the first was when my marriage was floundering, but it dragged on for ages. The second when made redundant from a job I loved. I just take things out on myself - and eating, or not, is my form of self-harm, I know that. So trying to eat, and being a good friend to him with his limited time, was a part of trying to somehwat normal. It has taken a while, but it HAS backfired.

Ironically, when I was so thin, I never went to the Dr, so it was never on record that I weighed