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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Another reluctant ‘groom’

337 replies

Unlovedandinsecure · 01/06/2021 23:33

Unlovedandinsecure

Hi all,

Been with my partner for a long time, have children, he owns the house but I work full time. For a long time I didn’t think about marriage as was busy working and raising my children, so I was otherwise occupied! Then a few years ago I started thinking about our future and how we are not related so cannot make decisions for each other etc. I brought this up to DP and he said something along the lines of ‘I’ll do things at my own pace’.

We had a pretty rocky patch after that as I felt he had had enough time to know what he wanted but things improved and he made noises about marriage being a possibility. Today things have come to a head and I have told him our relationship is over as he had been deceitful - he has no intention of proposing but hasn’t had the decency to let me know!

I completely understand that some people don’t want marriage and that’s fine. What isn’t fine is not being honest and upfront about it.

I’m heartbroken and angry in equal measure as if I’d been told the truth from the outset I could have made a decision as to whether to stay or go. It baffles me how you can claim to love a person but intentionally hurt them.

I know these threads are ten a penny but just wanted some advice, even if it’s to tell me how stupid I have been!

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 02/06/2021 12:12

@category12

You're the one who said:

Society used to be set up to protect women. Back in the day when it was frowned on to have children outside marriage a woman in this position would have been rare.

And your point is?
category12 · 02/06/2021 12:14

It sounds like approval of stigmatising having children out of marriage.

stayathomer · 02/06/2021 12:17

Op is there any chance you've only brought up marriage in a certain way? So if you suddenly decided it was time and you hadn't talked about it for years what way did you talk about it? I had a friend years ago who was ready to propose but didn't because his girlfriend used to get so stressed about the future and constantly tell him her friends were all getting married etc. He'd say basically I can't wait to grow old with you and she'd argue then he'd argue back. He said they couldn't have a sensible conversation. They mutually (according to him) went their separate ways and he sold the ring

MrsIsobelCrawley · 02/06/2021 12:19

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

If your relationship is otherwise good I think yabu. I can never understand why anyone would throw away a good relationship jist because they don't have a peive of paper that states you are legally bound together. I don't particularly want to get married. I thought j did when I met dp, we got engaged, but we have never taken it any further than a proposal. I don't think either of us are bothered anymore.
It's more than a piece of paper. Surely, you cannot be this naïve?

It is a financial contract that can have huge implications when the relationship breaks down.

Original poster
Unlovedandinsecure · 02/06/2021 12:20

@CHISistoast

Hmm. I have 2 suggestions: 1 you make an appt at a solicitor's for both of you to make a will or 2 you make an appt at the registry office for a wedding, just you two, you tell him and see if he turns up. It would at least force the issue. Op I've read all your posts but I'm not clear on how much you actually want to be with him?
People often suggest booking a wedding and seeing if he turns up but honest question, is that even possible? I assumed you would both need to go and show ID etc. and give notice. Surely you can’t just turn up marry? Happy to be corrected though.
OP posts:
category12 · 02/06/2021 12:22

Why were you never involved with the house? Did he own before you got together?

WalkthisWayUK · 02/06/2021 12:24

I don’t think forcing the issue in this way will work. He will change a will. He will use calling a wedding to say you are a bit crazy. Either way he will be alerted to you and will protect his money even more.

I’d use everything in my power to get financially secure. He’s played you all these years, so do the same back. Whatever way you think he can be persuaded to give more financial security (that can’t be taken away) - do it now whilst you are still in a relationship. Ask a solicitor but don’t tell him.

Original poster
Unlovedandinsecure · 02/06/2021 12:25

@stayathomer I’ve done the sitting down and trying to calmly put my point across but he gets agitated and said he doesn’t want to be forced to do anything. Today he has said he’s not against it but never gave it much thought, despite knowing it was important to me.

I’m not mentioning it to him again. He’s been left in no doubt as to how I feel. I don’t think I can continue to play the role of ‘wife’ and not be one.

OP posts:
Dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 02/06/2021 12:25

@Unlovedandinsecure

Yes, I contribute to the house as I work full time and when the kids were younger I took on the childcare and worked part time.

I’m a believer in being financially independent as far as it’s possible to be as you never know what’s round the corner.

But that artificial 'independence' was to your detriment? Most people I know who choose not to marry even though planning/having kids, do at least put the family property in joint names.
Blossomtoes · 02/06/2021 12:30

@category12

It sounds like approval of stigmatising having children out of marriage.
Well it’s not.
Whoarethewho · 02/06/2021 12:31

Given the UK's stupid marriage/divorce rules why would he risk everything he owns for marriage? Serious a higher earning partner would be nuts to marry someone who earns significantly less. I wouldn't do it. But then I wouldn't expect a partner to give up work to look after children. An financial contract free marriage would suit me untill then I will never subsidise someone who isn't prepared to make sacrifices I have had to to get to my earning potential and net wealth.

So don't blame the groom blame the system which makes UK the world's divorce capital.

LuvMyBubbles · 02/06/2021 12:35

Op I was you. The saddest part is that I felt was a rejection. If the wedding was important to me then he should have made it happen. It could have been anything, elope, small big, church, hall, anywhere, anything. I just wanted him to want me to be his wife. I was his business partner and mother to his children but couldn't find the right time to propose and plan a wedding.
Twenty years we were together.
We only got married two weeks before died, after an 18mth illness, that wasn't the marriage I wanted and I'm so angry at him for that.
So do what makes you happy and what you won't regret, if he won't marry you now then leave and find happiness with someone who will.

Theunamedcat · 02/06/2021 12:36

If he was such a high earner he wouldn't have needed her contribution towards the house and she could have saved to buy her own

category12 · 02/06/2021 12:37

Fair enough.

What I'd really like to see is when couples decide to have children together, they both take on responsibility for child-rearing -

  • the bloke takes leave as a matter of course
  • they both look at their options for flexible or part-time working
  • they consider childcare costs as a joint expense not just weigh it against the woman's possible income
  • they take turns to take days off for children's holidays, sickness or appointments and share pick-ups & drop-offs
  • they both save up for covering costs of maternity leave etc (you see women on here saying things like I've been living on my savings while on maternity leave while their partner seems in no way affected which is barmy and so unfair).

It should be the norm that both parents contribute equally to raising their children together and both take on the consequent hit.

We don't need to revert back to needing to be married to protect women, we need to push forward equality.

Whoarethewho · 02/06/2021 12:41

The issue here is also societal why do women take time off for work for childcare? If you really want a baby but the partner is unwilling to take time off and agreed before DTD to share responsibility the to be frank you probably shouldn't be having a child with them. Unless the partner is prepared to via a financial contract pay for it and it was agreed before conception. None of this "oh now the baby is here I want to spend more time with it" and therefore give up working hours unless agreed by both parties and new contracts agreed.

Blossomtoes · 02/06/2021 12:41

We don't need to revert back to needing to be married to protect women, we need to push forward equality

We’ve been pushing forward for equality for decades. It hasn’t got us anywhere except backwards. It’s pretty obvious that as a class men can’t be depended upon as voluntary partners in equality. It has to be contractual to work.

ToffeeNotCoffee · 02/06/2021 12:42

Won't be blackmailed.

Tells you all you need to know.

he gets agitated and said he doesn’t want to be forced to do anything.

Forced ? By whom ? Rather smacks, to me at least, of you being told don't go getting ideas above your station.

Today he has said he’s not against it but never gave it much thought

Too bad you didn't say, with regard to having children, 'I'm not against it but never gave it much thought.' If planning to start a family was always, 'not ready' or worse still (perpetually) next year...

He's kept you dangling on a maybe.

He just wanted kids. He had and still has no intention of getting married. Sorry to say this, but not to you, at least.

Ask him if he wants to legally be your husband or is that how he sees himself already.

He won't marry you because he wants to keep his assets to himself ?

That, again, tells you all you need to know.

Whoarethewho · 02/06/2021 12:44

@category12

Fair enough.

What I'd really like to see is when couples decide to have children together, they both take on responsibility for child-rearing -

  • the bloke takes leave as a matter of course
  • they both look at their options for flexible or part-time working
  • they consider childcare costs as a joint expense not just weigh it against the woman's possible income
  • they take turns to take days off for children's holidays, sickness or appointments and share pick-ups & drop-offs
  • they both save up for covering costs of maternity leave etc (you see women on here saying things like I've been living on my savings while on maternity leave while their partner seems in no way affected which is barmy and so unfair).

It should be the norm that both parents contribute equally to raising their children together and both take on the consequent hit.

We don't need to revert back to needing to be married to protect women, we need to push forward equality.

This is exactly right. I think if men knew the cost up front though there would be a lot less children born though (which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing)
WalkthisWayUK · 02/06/2021 12:46

We don't need to revert back to needing to be married to protect women, we need to push forward equality. however most of your post is what couples ‘should’ do and wouldn’t be enforceable by anyone. So a woman in a home where the husband is not doing his fair share, not taking care of the kids, not even giving the mother financial security if he is the main earner - how can equality policies / legislation make that happen?

They can’t really. Financial security is the only thing that can be enforced and really mostly through marriage. The CMS is a bit of a joke.

DreamingNow · 02/06/2021 12:46

[quote Unlovedandinsecure]@stayathomer I’ve done the sitting down and trying to calmly put my point across but he gets agitated and said he doesn’t want to be forced to do anything. Today he has said he’s not against it but never gave it much thought, despite knowing it was important to me.

I’m not mentioning it to him again. He’s been left in no doubt as to how I feel. I don’t think I can continue to play the role of ‘wife’ and not be one.[/quote]
Then I think you really need some legal advice there.
First go and see a solicitor. And then have a chat with him again saying exactly what you’ve just said. Stop doing his washing, cooking, sex and whatnot. Remind him of how much you’ve actually put into the relationship (and that’s wo the child rearing etc....)

But I have to say, I somehow suspect he will use that line of ‘not wanting to be blackmailed’ and won’t step up (aka marriage etc...). He has got use to have his cake and eating it. He is balking at the idea that this will end.

Pickledpenguin · 02/06/2021 12:48

OP I think you are doing the right thing. As a friend of mine would say 'you need to piss or get off the pot'. He has had ample opportunity and decided not to propose and has kept you dangling for years. If he cannot commit now he never will so you are as well to walk away now.

Ohffsnotthisagain · 02/06/2021 12:48

I’m wondering how your relationship is generally op? I’m curious because if you loved someone enough to have kids and a life with them, why would he want to see problems with inheritance etc should something happen to him? As you appear to have done most of the early childcare, are the kids ‘yours’ and not really his? To give the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he can’t think this through to where it could lead - to you, having ‘played wife’ for years, left financially insecure having raised his children.
Just can’t comprehend doing this to your life partner.
He’s getting so caught up on ‘doing it his way’ - does he not understand the message it’s sending?
Not surprised you’re very hurt.

traumatisednoodle · 02/06/2021 12:49

I’m not mentioning it to him again. He’s been left in no doubt as to how I feel. I don’t think I can continue to play the role of ‘wife’ and not be one
Sounds like you have made your mind up then.
Good luck if you are still in your forties you have loads of time to build a new life.

Ohffsnotthisagain · 02/06/2021 12:49

Oh yes I agree with @DreamingNow - stop doing the wife stuff too.

WalkthisWayUK · 02/06/2021 12:50

@Blossomtoes

We don't need to revert back to needing to be married to protect women, we need to push forward equality

We’ve been pushing forward for equality for decades. It hasn’t got us anywhere except backwards. It’s pretty obvious that as a class men can’t be depended upon as voluntary partners in equality. It has to be contractual to work.

Absolutely this.

We’ve spent the last 20 years, with paternity leave, encouraging men to be fathers, homemakers, pushing women to take more careers. Women are less protected than they were and more exhausted - taken on a career, waiting for later for children (for men to mature), giving up or going part-time in career when man doesn’t want to be the main carer, doing most of the housework, managing everything and running ourselves ragged. And then when we give up on our partner, and not been ‘insightful’ enough to be married - we ended up financial shafted.

Angry