To do IVF anyway

[Chickenonaperch]

Quick background. Been married 10 years, with husband longer. We started trying for a baby 7 years ago, had a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy needing my tube removed. Husband has a low sperm count. Did 5x IVF rounds & all failed. I've also had various unpleasant tests and surgeries to correct issues

We are due to do another round in a month's time. IVF, pregnancy loss and 7 years of uncertainty has made our marriage rocky.

Husband has always been a big drinker, before I met him, before we married. Didn't cut down when we started trying for a baby but he did cut down on alcohol when he realised there was make factor infertility and we needed IVF. However he always went back to it after each failed IVF.

He typically drinks way over government guidance i.e. at it's worst we could be talking 80-100 units per week. He makes promises to stop and stops for a few weeks then it creeps back in.

He stopped 12 weeks prior to our next IVF round but then started having the odd one which became 2 & 3. I gently said that the clinic said a drink every now and again wouldn't hurt but not more than 3 units per day. He was pushing it to around 7 units per day around 4 days per week.

Yesterday in the hear, doing DIY he went and got 4 cans of beer, I asked him not to drink them all as we are 5 weeks from IVF. We argued and he promptly went and bought another 4 pints.

Now my question is, I've waited so long to do this next IVF because of covid and my health. Do I go ahead anyway and hope he stops drinking when we have a baby and hope that last night's binge hasn't affected it or do we stop here and accept no children?

I'm 38 he's 42. Time isn't on our side.

You know the situation best. People saying he loves alcohol more than you and a potential child just seem over the top to me. You say he'd be a good dad. It's been nearly a decade you've been trying. That would take its toll on anyone and I imagine he could likely be thinking it's not going to happen as there have been so many disappointments hence his actions. Granted it's not a good way to deal with it but given the info you've said, I'd give it another try. It's obviously up to you and how you feel about it.

If he was desperate for a child he would stop drinking and be doing everything possible to promote a healthy child environment and his health.

Do I go ahead anyway and hope he stops drinking when we have a baby and hope that last night's binge hasn't affected it or do we stop here and accept no children?

I don't think that's the underlying issue.
The real question you're wondering is " Is this man going to be a fit father to my child ". If he continues drinking at that level, the answer is no.

And I think you know now, that even the greatest possible incentive (conception) won't stop him drinking. So pregnancy and birth and sleepless nights aren't going to stop him drinking.

I can understand why stress drove him to this and am truly sorry for your situation.

Here's the thing. Do you want to go ahead with conception/birth, if you might then have to leave the marriage and be a single parent ?

@2bazookas

Do I go ahead anyway and hope he stops drinking when we have a baby and hope that last night's binge hasn't affected it or do we stop here and accept no children?

I don't think that's the underlying issue.
The real question you're wondering is " Is this man going to be a fit father to my child ". If he continues drinking at that level, the answer is no.

And I think you know now, that even the greatest possible incentive (conception) won't stop him drinking. So pregnancy and birth and sleepless nights aren't going to stop him drinking.

I can understand why stress drove him to this and am truly sorry for your situation.

Here's the thing. Do you want to go ahead with conception/birth, if you might then have to leave the marriage and be a single parent ?

To be fair, OP has openly said the drinking predates their struggles with infertility.

I'm sure it has exacerbated his addiction, going through IVF over and over again. But it isn't the cause of it.

@Overthebow

Are you in a position to go it alone? Could you keep the IVF appointment and use a sperm donor instead?

This was my first thought. It’d dramatically improved your chances of success. I’d give an ultimatum, tee total ( look into programs) many do successfully stay sober . Or it’s over between you. Then you set up home and have baby as a single. I think you’d need some support, do you have a close friend or sister that can help out sometimes? I mean if you get sick , emergencies etc.

@Chickenonaperch

Gosh I know you are all right. He's desperate for children as am i. He is a wonderful man. He just drinks far too much and finds it difficult to control how much.

OP, I would gently suggest that you he's actually less of a wonderful man than you think. He seems to be wonderful only as long as you are not challenging his drinking. When you DO challenge it (and not even that much, you didn't ask him not to have any beers but just to stick to the medically advised limits) he reacts by drinking EVEN MORE and accusing you of being controlling (this is a classic abuser's move, by the way - to accuse YOU of being controlling, look up DARVO). This is NOT normal (I'd suggest that what would be normal would be for a man with a low sperm count to give up alcohol completely if he wanted to do everything possible to maximise the chances of successful treatment) and is designed to get you to stop challenging his drinking (because you'll eventually accept the level he originally wants to drink at as the lesser of two evils, given that if you challenge him on it you know that "you'll make it worse").

If he can't even limit his drinking to within the medical guidelines for a sixth round of ICSI where he is fully aware that a large part of the issue lies with him and that the doctors state drinking at the level he does will be harmful to your chances then what on earth makes you think he'd cut back if you did have a baby?

A friend of mine married her long term partner with whom she'd had several miscarriages. He was awful to her before they got married (affairs, lack of support, not pulling his weight at home, calling her names) and of course was exactly the same after they got married. They did eventually have a baby and his behaviour deteriorated even further (this often happens when they think you're trapped with them). She's now stuck with him for at least the next 18 years, I wish she'd left him years ago and found a nice, normal man to have a family with. (Ironically, I believe their fertility issues are a combined problem, so she'd probably have had less of an issue conceiving with someone else. What a waste.)

@MimiDaisy11

You know the situation best. People saying he loves alcohol more than you and a potential child just seem over the top to me. You say he'd be a good dad. It's been nearly a decade you've been trying. That would take its toll on anyone and I imagine he could likely be thinking it's not going to happen as there have been so many disappointments hence his actions. Granted it's not a good way to deal with it but given the info you've said, I'd give it another try. It's obviously up to you and how you feel about it.

Over the top?

He drinks up to 100 units per week! That's a huge issue.

When you DO challenge it (and not even that much, you didn't ask him not to have any beers but just to stick to the medically advised limits) he reacts by drinking EVEN MORE and accusing you of being controlling (this is a classic abuser's move, by the way - to accuse YOU of being controlling, look up DARVO). This is NOT normal (I'd suggest that what would be normal would be for a man with a low sperm count to give up alcohol completely if he wanted to do everything possible to maximise the chances of successful treatment) and is designed to get you to stop challenging his drinking (because you'll eventually accept the level he originally wants to drink at as the lesser of two evils, given that if you challenge him on it you know that "you'll make it worse").

That actually really resonated as I am kicking myself for not letting it go as the 4 cans was better than the position we ended up in. However it was the forlurth consecutive day of 7/8 units a day when we are weeks from icsi IVF. I challenged it as we have fought so hard and I couldn't believe he was doing it.

I started to question if I was controlling and would be better saying nothing.

I've really spent all day kicking myself for letting it be an issue as it was the lesser of the evils to just let him do it.

100 units is at its worst but at its worst he drinks in the mornings, in the daytime and can see off a bottle of wine whilst his beers are cooling.

You’re not controlling and as someone said upthread, it’s a classic move to turn it around on you.
Read this as if it was someone else and not your husband... 100 units is at its worst but at its worst he drinks in the mornings, in the daytime and can see off a bottle of wine whilst his beers are cooling. what would you think of you heard of someone doing this? Drinking in the mornings etc. Would you think they’d be a suitable parent?

@Its947

Yes I do know about alcoholism. I also know people who over drink, I myself don’t drink at all. I also know all about IVF. Nothings black and white and all the dramatics of leave him he’s an alcoholic etc are way too harsh when all we know is a paragraph of a persons life.

We know enough.

He drinks heavily.
His drinking predates the ivf/icsi treatments.
Used the slightest excuse to get more alcohol.
Called the OP controlling over the drinking and gave her the silent treatment, so borderline abuse at best.
His record for stopping is 4 weeks. That is nothing.

OP should not have a child with this man. He will not be a good parent, and even if OP does have a child with him and later separates, that child will still be subjected to this man in their life.

OP has a much better chance of a child with donor sperm, and a child has a much better chance of a good life without this man involved.

100 units is at its worst but at its worst he drinks in the mornings, in the daytime and can see off a bottle of wine whilst his beers are cooling

I’m the first to say Mumsnet is hysterical when it comes to alcohol as the common theme is one sniff means you have a problem BUT what you have just written is truly an alcoholic. It would be abusive to bring a baby into a home with an true alcoholic. If you went ahead with the IVF and it was successful you will then have a choice to make- leave him for the sake of the baby or bring up a baby with an alcoholic for a parent.

However it was the forlurth consecutive day of 7/8 units a day when we are weeks from icsi IVF.

He's showing you, with no room for doubt, that alcohol is more important than hisr child. What more do you need?

Why does he drink? I've been an alcoholic and the first time I was bad it was due to an eating disorder. I would drink instead of eat .

Second period was during a really stressful job, I was running a 4 million pound project, it was if it failed I would be to blame, but so many people were involved because they had to be. I felt I couldn't control everything. I struggled to deal with the stress. Interestingly there were a number of alcoholics in the project team. I think that sort of stress and the industry it was very common.

I have in the past been t-total, I can drink now, but when I do I just want more and more so I tend not to. We have alcohol in the house and I won't drink it. It's on that rare occasion that I accept a glass of wine out that I find it hard, I can stop it but there is something inside that says more more more. Most people know me as someone who doesn't drink.

I'm sorry it resonated, OP - but the reason it did is that there's a pattern to the behaviour of men like this, they are not original at all. Have you read any of the other threads about alcoholic partners on here?

I started to question if I was controlling and would be better saying nothing.

I've really spent all day kicking myself for letting it be an issue as it was the lesser of the evils to just let him do it.

This for me is the most alarming of all your posts, because it demonstrates that he is now making you doubt yourself AND feel responsible for his drinking ("if only I hadn't done X, then he wouldn't have done Y..."). Of course, in reality you are neither remotely out of line (or, indeed, "controlling") for asking him to stick to medical advice to maximise your chances of the ICSI being successful (the person who is out of line is him, both for going against the doctor's advice and for blaming you!) nor responsible for his actions. The only person responsible for his actions is him, but I don't think he wants to stop drinking. He loves it too much and will always put it before you (just think, he is drinking when he KNOWS it's negatively impacting YOUR chances of having a child) and any children he may have. He won't change

This is the type of thread that often starts off with the OP stating ‘he is a wonderful part we’ and as it goes on the evidence speaks for the contrary.

You can still have a baby. Just not with someone who is choosing to drink away your chances. Think long and hard.

Partner*

Something I have seen happen in two different relationships is the women didn’t see the drinking as too much until a child was born. A few drinks didn’t seem like much until Dad was trying to pick up the baby, saying it was perfectly fine and Mum realised the most precious, fragile thing in the universe was in the hands of someone who was not sober and was a danger to them because of that. Even a couple of drinks is enough to impair judgement and reaction times, arguments ensued because those men refused to accept that and the women couldn’t relax at all. Neither men stopped drinking and both couples split up.

This is our last ever go at IVF. We agreed that.

Did you ever agree that before? Was #5 supposed to be the last go?

Do I go ahead anyway and hope he stops drinking when we have a baby

Why would your partner become someone different just because he had a child?

Sorry. I am a cow. I hope that you don't get disappointed or can make peace with any disappointments you do have.

100 units is at its worst but at its worst he drinks in the mornings, in the daytime and can see off a bottle of wine whilst his beers are cooling

I rather suspect those posters trotting out the ‘Mumsnet hysteria’ over alcohol line might retract it after reading this.

Still think he isn’t an alcoholic?

OP, he’s conditioning you to not question him as hell deliberately escalate it to hurt you. Are you sure he wants this baby? It all sounds really awful and I’m sorry. Please don’t settle for him just because you want a child. Don’t put up with shit behaviour and abusive tactics.

Absolutely do not do it. A child does not need an alcoholic as a dad. So sorry OP.

100 units a week is 7 x double vodkas every single day. Or 7.25 pints of beer every single day. Or nearly 1.5 bottles of wine every night.

That’s a shit ton of alcohol.

@Chickenonaperch

I guess this thread has proven a hard read, and I'm sorry for your predicament.

But I think you should google the Sunk Costs Fallacy.

However your DH was before, that isn't who he is now. You can't base your decision on whether to go ahead with the ivf/icsi on what he used to be like. You have to base the decision on how he is now and how he is likely to be in the future.

And from your posts, he's an alcoholic. It's not normal to be drinking a bottle of wine while waiting for beer to cool off. And this will escalate because babies are stressful. Even if you separate after the birth of a baby, the damage will have been done, and the damage will continue until the child is old enough to make their own decision to stop seeing him. And the effects of that damage will last forever, just see the accounts from those who had alcoholic parents.

OP also consider that these cycles do tend to repeat themselves, children can take on the addictions of their parents, and there’s plenty of evidence that alcoholism is a complex genetic disease. Do you really want to give your children that start in life, both through their upbringing and the genes your DH may be passing on.

I’m so sorry it must be hard to hear this advice, I wish you the best whatever you decide to do

This man is an alcoholic whether you down play it or not. He also loves the drink more then he loves you or a potential baby.

Is there any way you can do this alone? You have your eggs and can try and get surrogate sperm? Have the baby and divorce him. He might be a good man but he will never ever be a good dad while he’s an alcoholic. Until he quits he doesn’t deserve children and I say that ws the child of an alcoholic.

Have your baby on your own.

Oh gosh, now you've said he drinks in the morning, it rather changes my opinion.

That is a whole day obliterated, him more than likely not being able to drive due to his intake.

Nah, couldn't live with that.
Has he tried AA, does he see he has a problem?