To do IVF anyway

[Chickenonaperch]

Quick background. Been married 10 years, with husband longer. We started trying for a baby 7 years ago, had a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy needing my tube removed. Husband has a low sperm count. Did 5x IVF rounds & all failed. I've also had various unpleasant tests and surgeries to correct issues

We are due to do another round in a month's time. IVF, pregnancy loss and 7 years of uncertainty has made our marriage rocky.

Husband has always been a big drinker, before I met him, before we married. Didn't cut down when we started trying for a baby but he did cut down on alcohol when he realised there was make factor infertility and we needed IVF. However he always went back to it after each failed IVF.

He typically drinks way over government guidance i.e. at it's worst we could be talking 80-100 units per week. He makes promises to stop and stops for a few weeks then it creeps back in.

He stopped 12 weeks prior to our next IVF round but then started having the odd one which became 2 & 3. I gently said that the clinic said a drink every now and again wouldn't hurt but not more than 3 units per day. He was pushing it to around 7 units per day around 4 days per week.

Yesterday in the hear, doing DIY he went and got 4 cans of beer, I asked him not to drink them all as we are 5 weeks from IVF. We argued and he promptly went and bought another 4 pints.

Now my question is, I've waited so long to do this next IVF because of covid and my health. Do I go ahead anyway and hope he stops drinking when we have a baby and hope that last night's binge hasn't affected it or do we stop here and accept no children?

I'm 38 he's 42. Time isn't on our side.

FYI we also did ICSI for all our attempts but referred to it as IVF as well as it’s a refinement of the IVF technique. God I hate picky mumsnetters questioning all the bloody time - why aren’t you doing this, why have you done that, nothing related to the post itself!

Yes I do know about alcoholism. I also know people who over drink, I myself don’t drink at all. I also know all about IVF. Nothings black and white and all the dramatics of leave him he’s an alcoholic etc are way too harsh when all we know is a paragraph of a persons life.

Also to say to someone who has had years of IVF and are constantly told about their biological clock hold off for 6, 12 months or whatever is like an eternity and full of dread because all you feel is your chances of success dwindling every month. It’s bloody awful.

Realistically how many rounds oh ivf are you prepared to have and able to afford? If there is an end point at which you say no more IVF then are going to resent him to the point you can't forgive him and your marriage breaks down?

Op, I have always been a big drinker. I come from a long line of alcoholics and pub landlords. But even so, when I knew I was going to be trying/ getting pregnant I stopped the drinking as that's what was best for my chances of pregnancy and for the actual pregnancy and health of the baby. Your Dh can't even skip the booze for a cycle of Ivf BEFORE there is even a baby to consider. Not even for one piddly cycle..... so why on Earth would you think he would stop for a pregnancy? To raise a child? He can't stay sober for more than 4 weeks and yet you are saying he would be a good dad. Those two things don't match up.

His priority is alcohol and not you or a baby. That's a simple fact.

One of the hardest things to realise as the child of an alcoholic is that your parent loves drinking more than they love you. That they put drinking over your health and safety. You would never be able to trust that your husband would keep your child safe.
I also think you would be extremely selfish to have a child knowing this so please don’t. I know you say he’s a good person but alcohol changes people and he drinks a heck of a lot. You’d be better off leaving and finding someone new but I know you may find that difficult. If you go ahead and fall pregnant knowing his problems then I think you are putting yourself rather than a child first. Harsh, yes. But true.

OP how do you feel about giving up the chance to have a baby? It's not great, he needs to seek help but equally writing off anyone who has ever had addiction problems is harsh.
My concern is whether you could ever come to terms with this decision? Would you always have the 'what ifs'?
I think you need to put his issues to one side for now and cross that particular bridge in time. For now, could you bring up a baby alone and would you in preference to not being a mother?
We can call it selfish all we like but there's an element of that in everyone who ever decides to have a baby

OP - Is this man really worth losing your chance to be a mother?

@Calmdown14

OP how do you feel about giving up the chance to have a baby? It's not great, he needs to seek help but equally writing off anyone who has ever had addiction problems is harsh. My concern is whether you could ever come to terms with this decision? Would you always have the 'what ifs'? I think you need to put his issues to one side for now and cross that particular bridge in time. For now, could you bring up a baby alone and would you in preference to not being a mother? We can call it selfish all we like but there's an element of that in everyone who ever decides to have a baby

I agree

@ButterflyBitch

One of the hardest things to realise as the child of an alcoholic is that your parent loves drinking more than they love you. That they put drinking over your health and safety. You would never be able to trust that your husband would keep your child safe. I also think you would be extremely selfish to have a child knowing this so please don’t. I know you say he’s a good person but alcohol changes people and he drinks a heck of a lot. You’d be better off leaving and finding someone new but I know you may find that difficult. If you go ahead and fall pregnant knowing his problems then I think you are putting yourself rather than a child first. Harsh, yes. But true.

Really nasty childish way of looking at things- yes I felt like this as a child but as an adult I understand addiction isn’t a choice

@ButterflyBitch

One of the hardest things to realise as the child of an alcoholic is that your parent loves drinking more than they love you. That they put drinking over your health and safety. You would never be able to trust that your husband would keep your child safe. I also think you would be extremely selfish to have a child knowing this so please don’t. I know you say he’s a good person but alcohol changes people and he drinks a heck of a lot. You’d be better off leaving and finding someone new but I know you may find that difficult. If you go ahead and fall pregnant knowing his problems then I think you are putting yourself rather than a child first. Harsh, yes. But true.

Well said.

I think in many ways it’s equally as bad when you are an adult and you realise that parents wants came before you. It’s why many of us are NC with family.

Onlyfools, Maybe addiction isn’t a choice but when faced with your child who is ill/in pain/needing help and you ignore that in favour of a drink, then yes you’ve made a choice. I would walk through fire for my kids, I’ve had to live with the fact that my mum didn’t feel that way. If that makes me nasty and childish then so be it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@ButterflyBitch Well said.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers Sure, but becoming a parent is a choice. I’m capable of seeing that my parents wouldn’t have chosen to be addicts but they sure as fuck chose to subject children to that situation. I judge the hell out of that.

OP - agree with others, this is not a good situation to bring a child into. My parents are both functioning alcoholics, with all of the excuses your DH is using now. I no longer speak to either of them.

You can be an alcoholic and a good person. They're not mutually exclusive. Addiction is a horrible thing that can happen to any of us with the right (unlucky) circumstances.

None of that changes the fact that you'd be being massively unfair to put your desire for a child over a potential child's right not to be brought up with an alcoholic for a parent.

Maybe sharing a bit of my personal experience might help.

I grew up with the most wonderful mother, an absolutely amazing one. She didn't really drink until I hit 19. She started to drink heavily and became an alcoholic. By the time I was 22 she'd drank herself to death.

What does that do to a person? It's shaped almost everything, given me an enormous painful grief to try and learn to live with an overcome at a fairly young age, impacted my career in the early years due to uncontrollable grief and pain. And she was an amazing mum, one that I'm so lucky to have had. Your child wouldn't even have that, they'd have an alcoholic parent from the start.

You would be massively unreasonable to go ahead with IVF, I'm so sorry. It would be so selfish. I can't imagine your pain wanting a child so much, being unable to have one and being married to a drunk. But to go ahead would be selfish, about your own needs, and not thinking about a child.

Your only option if you want to keep trying here is to end your marriage as soon as is practically possible, and try alone with a sperm donor.

Really sorry op but I wouldn't do it. If your husband can't stop drinking to boost your chances of having a baby, then he is already jeopardising the round of IVF.

We were in the same boat as you, my husband completely gave up drinking, cycling and took vitamins everyday to try help his sperm so that he would be doing all he could to help considering it's us women that have to do all the hard stuff. Giving up alcohol really shouldn't be that difficult and if your husband can't even do that while you go through the hard shit, then what's he's gonna be like if a baby does come along ...

@Chickenonaperch

Thank you all particularly those trying to see this from all angles. I would love to say the drinking us a reaction to loss but it isn't. It predates that.

I'm torn. It's funny hearing you all say he's an alcoholic. I wonder what you base that on as I gave minimal information. I think you are right fwiw. The drinking too much despite the consequence, the volume and inability to stop.

I really don't know what to do. I honestly wouldn't have a doubt in my mind if I didn't think he would be a wonderful dad. He really would be so good with children.

The other question also is if we did go ahead,do we through £6k at a treatment that he hasn't gone all out to prepare for.

The 80-100 units per week was a clue.

That's seven times the max recommended units per week set out by the NHS.

I used to work in prisons in a rehab unit, and that's the sort of units we'd see from long term alcoholics being sent to hospital because their livers were failing.

If he tries to stop drinking cold turkey it is likely to be very dangerous for him at this stage and he will get withdrawal symptoms on a daily basis until he drinks.

I think posters who are lambasting him for being an awful person are wrong to do so, but posters claiming that you should go ahead with IVF and cut him some slack likely haven't had the experience of living with or losing an alcoholic. Let alone as a small child.

Children are so innocent and that innocence is precious. Do you know any toddlers in your life? Have think about them, specifically, not some amorphous possible future baby. Imagine what it would be like in their world if their parent was drinking on a daily basis, how confusing it would be when they started to slur their words or nod off, how scary it is when their parent doesn't seem to be fully in control of themselves, how upsetting it would be to be scared in the night because of a nightmare or because they've wet themselves and need dad, but they can't rouse him.

Children deserve better.

He loves alcohol more than anything. You, the idea of a baby, an actual baby will always be second to that. He is showing that very clearly. Whether you want to see that or hear it is a very different matter.

How can you read back your opening post and NOT think you're married to an alcoholic. You are in denial. 100 units a week and a small baby? Really?

I would go ahead. You might never get another chance. He sounds like a good man aside from the drinking. You be both parents if you need to. You just have to be strong enough to manage worst case scenario.

@DurhamDurham

My brother died almost two years ago, he was an alcoholic and it was desperately sad at the end. I thank God he never had children to watch him die. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. He last his job, his wife, home, absolutely everything. Nothing was worth him giving up the drink and trying to get help (he was offered help many times from medical services) and I don't think having children would have made a difference either.

As someone who watched their mum drink themselves to death within the span of a few years, no, having children doesn't really make a difference. Nor does a loving partner, or grandchildren, or a good job.

It's a horrible, horrible disease or whatever else you want to call it. It rewires your brain until nothing else matters but drinking to ease the withdrawal symptoms and escape the mess your life has become.

Having a child is one of the hardest things anyone will do.

If your relationship isnt strong at the moment it can break you apart.
If it successful you may be left on your own with the baby. I know you've said it isnt an option..
But if he cant stop drinking I dont think your relationship will survive if you did have a baby. It would be better to go it alone with a sperm donor.

I’d look beyond the current treatment to how he’ll be as a parent. Will he be able to carry an equal load, would you be happy to leave him in sole care of a child when he’s been drinking his usual amount, would he be able to respond to your child’s needs if eg there was an accident needing medical care, could he drive to A&E at short notice or would that always fall to you. Would you be ok with your child seeing your husband drink as he does now, what’s the longer term impact on his health likely be, how does his current drinking pattern impact family finances - can you afford to fund his drinking habit and provide for any children?

Parenting places enormous stress on couples individually and together, if his coping mechanism is drinking, that’s unlikely to change once a child comes along and might actually increase. I can really understand the desire to keep your marriage intact and your love for him - it’s too easy to say LTB. Parenting tends to shine a light on weak spots in the relationship and exacerbate them, no matter how wanted, longed for and loved a child is. You need to look way beyond pregnancy and think about parenting with him and how that would work for you and any children.

You poor thing op, I really feel for you. The desire to have a child is all consuming but you know this will ruin the child's life down the line.

I think the choice is clear tbh. Keep the husband, or have a baby. But I don't think you can have both (Not with him).

Leave him and do IVF with a sperm donor

@Chickenonaperch

Can you push the appointment back 6 months

I don't think it will help as one of the things he's hating about IVF is the pressure to eat well, not drink etc so we are just delaying things
He's never given up drinking for a cycle, cut back but not given up so I would just be on the same place in 6 months.

He's awake now, WFH as he doesn't want to go in the office and isn't talking to me as I am controlling and wouldn't even let him have a few beers on his garden last night. I quote.

Him being desperate to get it over with so he can go back to caning 100 units a week and eating shit doesn’t sound like a man desperate to be a father...

Think long and hard about whether your focus on a desire for a child is making you settle for a really substandard partner. And whether, if your fertility treatment fails again, you’d be happy in a life with just the partner, and no child.

I feel for you OP but YABU I’m afraid. Like others have said, he’s an functioning alcoholic. He won’t be fit to look after a baby. A habit which might seem tolerable to you now will quickly become impossible to live with once you have a baby to look after.