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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To do IVF anyway

155 replies

Chickenonaperch · 01/06/2021 06:42

Quick background. Been married 10 years, with husband longer. We started trying for a baby 7 years ago, had a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy needing my tube removed. Husband has a low sperm count. Did 5x IVF rounds & all failed. I've also had various unpleasant tests and surgeries to correct issues

We are due to do another round in a month's time. IVF, pregnancy loss and 7 years of uncertainty has made our marriage rocky.

Husband has always been a big drinker, before I met him, before we married. Didn't cut down when we started trying for a baby but he did cut down on alcohol when he realised there was make factor infertility and we needed IVF. However he always went back to it after each failed IVF.

He typically drinks way over government guidance i.e. at it's worst we could be talking 80-100 units per week. He makes promises to stop and stops for a few weeks then it creeps back in.

He stopped 12 weeks prior to our next IVF round but then started having the odd one which became 2 & 3. I gently said that the clinic said a drink every now and again wouldn't hurt but not more than 3 units per day. He was pushing it to around 7 units per day around 4 days per week.

Yesterday in the hear, doing DIY he went and got 4 cans of beer, I asked him not to drink them all as we are 5 weeks from IVF. We argued and he promptly went and bought another 4 pints.

Now my question is, I've waited so long to do this next IVF because of covid and my health. Do I go ahead anyway and hope he stops drinking when we have a baby and hope that last night's binge hasn't affected it or do we stop here and accept no children?

I'm 38 he's 42. Time isn't on our side.

OP posts:
Tistheseason17 · 01/06/2021 09:33

You know what's sad?
If you do get pregnant he'll go straight back to high level of drinking and poor eating and you think this is him being a good husband.
What about the child you're bringing into this? So sad.
He needs to get treatment for alcoholism, not just stop drinking for a few weeks - which he can't do anyway.

Merryoldgoat · 01/06/2021 09:34

Abs if he desperately wanted a child he’d do what was required to maximise the chances of you getting pregnant and him being healthy and get proper support for his problem.

VettiyaIruken · 01/06/2021 09:38

Yabu, sorry.
You have chosen to be and stay with an alcoholic. That's up to you. You're an adult and have the right to make that choice.

You can't make that choice for a child. They don't have the option of leaving. An alcoholic / alcohol abuser / binge drinker parent is bad for a child. Having a baby is stressful. It won't make him give up drinking. If anything, it's more likely to see him drinking more.

Chickenonaperch · 01/06/2021 09:39

To answer the questions. There were 3 fresh and 2 frozen icsi in the past. One of my frozen ones didn't defrost properly so it's 4 actual tries. I have had surgery on some damage to my uterus Since my last round a year ago which raises our chances. This is our last ever go at IVF. We agreed that.

He says he thinks he drinks too much but doesn't think it's a problem as he's stopped before so knows he can. His record is 4 weeks and he drank alcohol free stuff during that time.

He doesn't acknowledge that what he's doing now is going to harm the IVF as he says the one drink on occasion us just a guide.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 01/06/2021 09:40

I'm amazing that anyone is saying go ahead, YANBU, tbh.

By all means go ahead with IVF but not with him! Being a single parent with donor sperm is VERY different from being a single parent with an alcoholic ex as the father of your child(ren) Confused

Firstly his sperm isn't exactly healthy (and could be a significant cause of the previous failed IVF rounds and miscarriages) and secondly he'd have parental responsibility and is very likely to have contact with the poor kid Sad

AnotherEmma · 01/06/2021 09:42

"His record is 4 weeks"

Confused
Beautiful3 · 01/06/2021 09:45

I think you're being extremely unfair to bring a baby into an unhealthy home. Your husband is clearly an alcoholic, he will never change, if anything he'll get worse. You should not have children with this man.

A1b2c3d4e5f6g7 · 01/06/2021 09:45

I personally would go ahead with the IVF still. I see he might have a problem with alcohol, and it will need to be addressed, but that would be my view. Based on age I wouldn't personally delay it. How's your relationship otherwise?

Is he taking all of the vitamins for sperm health - good multi vit for men, vitamin E, ALA, ubiquinol, cod liver oil etc? This might be enough to offset any damage from the drinking for the ivf.

A1b2c3d4e5f6g7 · 01/06/2021 09:47

I also would recommend couples counselling with someone who also deals with addictions. I know more money outlay is not what you need right now, but I think it will really help. Good luck

Magnoliablue · 01/06/2021 09:48

My father was an alcoholic. He loved his children very much, and we were very wanted, he would have killed for us.
He didn't drink at all when my mother met him as a teenager, his father was a violent alcoholic, and he wasn't going to be like him.
He didn't start drinking until his mid to late 20's with kids already.
He could be very controlling and angry when drinking, thought nothing of driving his family around drunk.
The accident that left himself and a sibling with severe injuries and life long scars escalated the drinking, the guilt I presume.
He still drove us around after that.
My mother was powerless to stop him, she was worn down and controlled.

I didn't understand why I would get in trouble for fetching him a drink at 4/5 as he was confined with injuries to the couch and shouting that he just needed one to feel better. I was just trying to help.
I didn't understand why he would be sobbing and hugging us one night, punishing and shouting at us the next, and there was no way to escape. I didn't understand the he would stop drinking periodically towards the end and get convulsions, it was terrifying.

My mother always said, if you had just known him when he was younger, he was nothing like this, he was the life of the party, everyone wanted to be his friend.
I believed her, I loved him very much, and I could see he wasn't a bad or evil man. He had no friends by the time I was a teenager.

He promised me one night, about 8 years old maybe,giving a worker a lift to the pub instead of home, that we were only dropping him off, he wouldn't go in. He swore.
But I could almost see his internal struggle when we goth there, he couldn't keep his promise, I do believe he wanted to, but the pub won and I sat in the car outside for hours waiting.

I learned very young, that you couldn't help an addict, I nearly broke myself as a child trying to do everything to help or make him happy, my mother was miserable and I spent my life trying to fix it.

We were taught to lie, to teachers, family, don't let them know, say he was in hospital for a heart condition, tell the police he hadn't been drinking..

He died when I was a teenager, at 50, my mother finally got the courage to leave with the kids, he couldn't understand why or live without his children around. He was heartbroken, but didn't stop drinking. Visiting him was so difficult, and his children not wanting to see him was devastating.
She found him dead on the floor of the house a few months later.

She is a different woman now, free and successful and not down trodden.

But it has affected every relationship I have had, I swore my children would never experience anything like it, but also I have chosen people with similar traits.
Happy to say though my children have not had those experiences as I have cut the relationships off at the first sign, maybe too soon, or an over reaction, but better safe.

My siblings over 20 years after his death are still dealing with the aftermath also, some have addictions, some blame my mother, some are in abusive relationships, some blame themselves as they were NC with him when he died, in the hope it would push him to get help, which of course it never did.

It is not easy being the child of an alcoholic, I have stories people are horrified by or they look at me like I am making them up because they are so crazy.

I understand you love him, and children and a happy family is something you ache for, and I would understand if you make the choice to go ahead, the things we do for love and in hope. I just wanted to give you a snapshot of the effect it has on children, even if he is not as bad as my father, I know no child that was happy with an alcoholic parent. And it's not something you can hide from them, or protect them from.
And often the cycle carries on down the generations.

maddening · 01/06/2021 09:49

I would suggest that whether you stay with him or not that you should not use his sperm for any round of ivf while he is drinking, between both of you you need the best chance for it to work, his count of good sperm will be impacted by his drinking and therefore impact the chance of it working. Each round is a huge impact on your body, you will have limited chances of attempting ivf, it is a waste while he is drinking.

RedSquirrelsAreAwesome · 01/06/2021 09:50

YABU - I really wouldn’t OP.
It’s ultimatum time as far as I can see, either he gives up cold turkey leading up to and for the duration of the treatment and you go for it one last time or your marriage is finished.
Think about it, if you don’t go ahead how will you manage not to resent him for the rest of your marriage? I know I would and I’ve been through IVF twice with my DH. My DH can be a heavy drinker but he did stop drinking when he needed to leading up to the IVF and whilst it was ongoing. He knew how important it was. Your DH is ignoring advice and is delusional about how important it is. He also needs help with his drinking now.

We now have a 6 week old baby who is the best thing that has ever happened to us and we are older parents who were getting towards the last chance saloon ourselves. I know how you feel, I’ve been there and I wish you well. Flowers

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 01/06/2021 09:53

I know no child that was happy with an alcoholic parent. And it's not something you can hide from them, or protect them from

Me neither. Adults wants should never come before what’s best for the child. They cannot remove themselves from a situation and have to live with whatever that is unless agencies intervene.

VettiyaIruken · 01/06/2021 09:55

I 'stopped smoking' hundreds of times in the 25 years I was a smoker.
A week, a month, a couple of times as long as 6 weeks. Then came the voice in my head saying oh, I've shown I can stop when I want to, I'll just have one.
I'll just have a couple.
I'll just have a few socially
I'll stick to 5 a day
I'll stick to 10 a day
Oh god, I'm back to 20 a day I'm going to try to cut back a bit...

Stopping means nothing unless you don't start again. It proves nothing if you go back to it.

vivainsomnia · 01/06/2021 09:56

Howcome you are doing IVF rather than ICSI if there is male infertility issue? It then wouldn't matter so much.

Ultimately, you can't know how his drinking will evolve in the future. It could be that it is stress that makes him drink and as soon as you have your baby, he will stop as overly happy. Or it could be that he is an alcoholic and the stress of the demand of a baby makes him drink even more.

No one fully understand the stress and implications of infertility and many rounds of IVF unless you've been through it. I hope with all my heart that your perseverance will finally pay off.

vivainsomnia · 01/06/2021 09:59

Just to add that my OH was quite a big drinker when we met. It was his normality. He didn't react well to me telling him he was drinking too much and didn't agree. I let it go. Over the years, he gradually reduced his amount, and suddenly, 6 months ago, decided he didn't care for it any longer and now hardly has one beer over the weekend. He says he doesn't really enjoy it any longer. It does happen.

Helenahandbasket1 · 01/06/2021 10:00

He won’t be a great dad OP, I promise you that. Do you know any adult children of alcoholics? Have a look online for their stories, please. You won’t feel like he is a good husband when you’re stuck doing all the night wakings and the general burden of responsibility for a child because he is first and foremost married to alcohol.

MrsM2021 · 01/06/2021 10:04

@Chickenonaperch

I’m so sorry that you’re going through this on top of IVF. I speak from experience here that it is traumatic in itself let alone with other things on top so I really sympathise.
I do think that you do deserve better from him - as a woman, we go through the injections, hormones, weight gain, surgeries, invasive scans etc, the pressure for our bodies to do what we need them to...and for him to let you down in this way by drinking way over the recommendation (which probably hampers success in the face of everything you are putting yourself through) is completely disrespectful.

Alcoholism aside, I’m not sure I buy what a wonderful man he is if he’s going to deliberately cause distress in this way during what is a terribly difficult time.

Flowers
Chickenonaperch · 01/06/2021 10:04

Howcome you are doing IVF rather than ICSI if there is male infertility issue? It then wouldn't matter so much.

We are doing ICSI, always have. I always just say IVF as people who haven't been through it often don't know what ICSI is.

OP posts:
Tigger85 · 01/06/2021 10:06

Honestly he doesnt seem to want this as much as you. I would do IVF with a sperm donor instead of using his sperm. You have male factor infertility, if he isn't willing to make life style changes to improve his sperm then it's not worth the heart ache for you to go through IVF with his sperm. It's your body that's subjected to multiple invasive procedures, it's you that has to have multiple daily injections, it's you that will have the pain of any potential miscarriage. All he had to do was eat a good diet, reduce/eliminate alcohol and caffeine and take a few supplements. It's not a big ask. There is no point in putting your body through IVF to waste good eggs on poor quality sperm, you would save yourself a lot of time, money and heartache using a healthy young sperm donor. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, I have also been through multiple rounds of IVF (4 fresh, 3 frozen) with multiple loses so I understand your pain and desperation. Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.

Its947 · 01/06/2021 10:15

Please don’t listen to what anyone on mumsnet has to say. They know nothing about you or your DH and a lot of them have no idea about the stress of IVF on couples. I’ve been in your shoes with multiple IVFs, miscarriage etc under my belt. IVF is so, so hard and makes you question absolutely everything, but no one knows what the future holds or how anyone will behave if they have a baby. With IVF your life is constantly on hold, saving money, putting off things as ‘we may be pregnant by then’. We were constantly in a state of limbo for 10 years and it’s always there in the background, even on the happiest days it’s lurking. I get your husband is a big drinker, so are some of my friends, they drink like others overeat and can be good sometimes not great others but I wouldn’t class them as alcoholics.

Nocutenamesleft · 01/06/2021 10:15

Oh. Please don’t. I grew up with an alcoholic stepfather. The only positive thing that came out of that is that I am completely teetotal. As is my husband. I could t of married someone who drank. I can’t stand the smell. I tried to get used to it by working in a bar. But that didn’t last long

He was violent. So so violent and one of the times for women to experience first time violence is either in pregnancy or the newborn stage. Whilst I’m sure he isn’t. I couldn’t do that to a child.

He is an alcoholic. They don’t need to drink every day. Or even every week. Just be reliant on alcohol and if he can’t stop drinking. That might be a reason

But I feel for you. I know the heavy heart of wanting a child you just can’t have. I’m so sorry x

A1b2c3d4e5f6g7 · 01/06/2021 10:21

@Its947

Please don’t listen to what anyone on mumsnet has to say. They know nothing about you or your DH and a lot of them have no idea about the stress of IVF on couples. I’ve been in your shoes with multiple IVFs, miscarriage etc under my belt. IVF is so, so hard and makes you question absolutely everything, but no one knows what the future holds or how anyone will behave if they have a baby. With IVF your life is constantly on hold, saving money, putting off things as ‘we may be pregnant by then’. We were constantly in a state of limbo for 10 years and it’s always there in the background, even on the happiest days it’s lurking. I get your husband is a big drinker, so are some of my friends, they drink like others overeat and can be good sometimes not great others but I wouldn’t class them as alcoholics.
I agree with this
RampantIvy · 01/06/2021 10:22

they know nothing about you or your DH and a lot of them have no idea about the stress of IVF on couples.

I don't think you know anything about the stress of living with an alcoholic. Most posters who have responded on this thread do.

EvilPea · 01/06/2021 10:22

@Chickenonaperch

Can you push the appointment back 6 months

I don't think it will help as one of the things he's hating about IVF is the pressure to eat well, not drink etc so we are just delaying things
He's never given up drinking for a cycle, cut back but not given up so I would just be on the same place in 6 months.

He's awake now, WFH as he doesn't want to go in the office and isn't talking to me as I am controlling and wouldn't even let him have a few beers on his garden last night. I quote.

You will still be in the same position if you let yourself. Push it back by 6 months and work out what you need to do. To me you have two options. Stay with him and give up the IVF Or leave him and have IVF on your own.

You can not actively choose to have a child with an alcoholic. You cannot quit booze for him. So YOU have limited choices.