Mandatory Covid jabs for health workers

[WinnieSmith]

"Govt ‘absolutely thinking’ about mandatory Covid jabs for health workers, UK vaccine minister says"

www.rt.com/uk/525218-govt-thinking-mandatory-jabs-healthcare/

Should Covid jabs be mandatory for healthcare workers?

IABU - yes
IANBU - no

@Tealightsandd

Should a blind surgeon remain in their role operating on patients or would it be better if they were redeployed?

Are you quite sure this is a comparable situation?

Really? So is that a yes they should lose their jobs? A blind surgeon cannot perform operations, so literally cannot do the job. The surgeon will also have insurance to protect their income from such a predicament.

If someone isn’t vaccinated, they can still do the job and provisions could be made to overcome the none vaccine. Proper PPE/facemasks etc for a start.

Yes it's comparable. Staff are either providing safe care or they're not.

I may be the one person without an opinion although I lean towards saying No.

If the covid jab is mandatory, will it be mandatory every year?
If covid booster each year is mandatory, will flu jab each year be mandatory every year --why not?
If health care workers must have jabs, should NHS users also be forced to have jabs and boosters each year if not, why not?

I just don't know the logic of where the vaccination requirement stops and why it would stop one place & not extend to the other situations. I'm looking for a rationale.

After that I'm worried about impacts. NHS clinical staff are always behind in their admin, now this is one more thing they will be behind on.

Social care already has a dreadful workforce shortage. Is it more important to have fewer carers all extra stressed due to their shortage of colleagues, but all of them vaccinated, or more important to have as many carers as can do the actual job well and get closer to what the recipients deserve for quality care due to having more carers, even if some of the carers aren't vaxxed?

Vaccinated workers will of course be in higher demand - and quite rightly be able to ask for better pay and working conditions.

I highly doubt that this will ever happen!

@shivawn

I highly doubt that this will ever happen!

^ this

@lljkk
I assume if necessary it could be an annual booster. Isn't there a trial going ok into a combined flu/Covid jab? That could make things easier if it's successful.

Is it more important to have fewer carers all extra stressed due to their shortage of colleagues, but all of them vaccinated, or more important to have as many carers as can do the actual job

It's difficult. Neither setup is safe care.

@shivawn

Vaccinated workers will of course be in higher demand - and quite rightly be able to ask for better pay and working conditions.

I highly doubt that this will ever happen!

Private care homes will have to. Families will choose the home with vaccinated staff over the one where their loved one won't get safe care.

Also, how much money will it cost in legal payouts if bereaved families sue when duty of care is failed?

Might be cheaper to pay better and attract suitable candidates in the first place.

No, it should not be mandatory, especially for current staff.
And the PP who said everyone in a public facing role should be made to have the jab.... um, no. If you are unable to have the vaccine, then your job options are rather limited. And if you are a jobseeker... should you get sanctioned for not having the jab therefore making yourself unemployable?

@Tealightsandd I'd love a payrise to go with my covid vaccine but I honestly think what you're suggesting is completely implausible. Anyway, I didn't need any extra incentive to get my jab.

Private care homes have zero interest in paying better to attract suitable candidates! They are among the worst places to work!

Absolutely yes, fuck with your own life, fine, but fuck with someone elses? No

Totally agree.

What we should have learnt from this pandemic is that it’s not the risks we take for ourselves that matter, but the risks our choices pose to others. That’s what really matters.

Unfortunately a significant minority just cannot deal with reason.

If people thought about this, I think the hotspots would be a little cooler, and health care workers on the front line would not even think of asking this question.

Of course health care workers should be vaccinated.

If you are in a profession where you regularly have to interact with vulnerable people then yes I think you should have to have it.

People can make a choice as to where they work, but people who are already poorly do not have the choice as to who treats them or cares for them (most of the time).

My personal opinion is that if you can get vaccinated and it is safe to do so, then you should. If you choose not to that is up to you and do I do believe in freedom of choice, but freedom of choice and being able to do whatever you want, whenever you wanted, whatever the effect on others would be are two different things.

[quote shivawn]@Tealightsandd I'd love a payrise to go with my covid vaccine but I honestly think what you're suggesting is completely implausible. Anyway, I didn't need any extra incentive to get my jab.

Private care homes have zero interest in paying better to attract suitable candidates! They are among the worst places to work![/quote]
My issue is that the knock on effect is that vaccinated workers will be in higher demand than non vaccinated workers, and that will be the preference over suitability, experience and abilities. We already know that no one really gives a shiny shit about actual care delivered, if they did care workers would have standard training, a register etc. But of course that will also mean a rise I status and pay which would never do.
Right now the only thing you need is a clean criminal record to go and care for some of the most vulnerable people in society, and if this is bought in, a covid vaccination. That's it, for the people saying it's about duty of care etc, that doesn't just cover covid, a covid vaccination isn't going to change the standards of care currently being delivered, in fact it may erode them further with loss of experienced staff and the addition of staff who aren't suitable, but willing to be vaccinated, and employers will take them over non vaccinated workers.

In a job so important that it's deemed necessary to have a mandatory vaccination, should that be the only entry requirements? Really?

It's a cop out by the same government that has basically ignored this group of people and when there's been outcry has answered with mandatory vaccinations for care workers, shifting the blame.

I do not resent getting my vaccine one bit, I resent the implication that after what the government and care providers have put workers and service users through in the last 18 months, they think this is the answer and have whipped up a 'selfish care workers' frenzy.

I wonder what the actual numbers for refusal are? Not those who haven't been called yet, or couldn't get it immediately when offered etc, because all I can seem to find is vaccinated vs non vaccinated - which doesn't give a true picture.

Care being the relevant word. It is not care to put the vulnerable at unnecessary risk. Care is about protection and keeping people safe.

Yes. In fact everyone should. Anti vaxers are selfish and if they don't wish to contribute to the safety of society they should fuck off and not benefit from being part of it. Parents who don't want to vaccinate their children should be excluded from school. How dare you put my children and family at risk and further delay our route out of covid. When you get ill and have to rely on.medicine and science and our tax money to help you out - Oh it's ok then is it to accept scientific evidenced based treatments?!? Hypocrisy. Delusional. Foolish.

@Tealightsandd

Care being the relevant word. It is not care to put the vulnerable at unnecessary risk. Care is about protection and keeping people safe.

Yes and that is being put solely at care workers feet, care providers, yet again, will not be affected, the government, yet again will not actually have to addres the issues that have been going on too long in care. If you want protection and keeping people safe, then that covers a lot more than a covid vaccination.

@MyrrAgain

Yes. In fact everyone should. Anti vaxers are selfish and if they don't wish to contribute to the safety of society they should fuck off and not benefit from being part of it. Parents who don't want to vaccinate their children should be excluded from school. How dare you put my children and family at risk and further delay our route out of covid. When you get ill and have to rely on.medicine and science and our tax money to help you out - Oh it's ok then is it to accept scientific evidenced based treatments?!? Hypocrisy. Delusional. Foolish.

You want it to be mandatory for everyone? How would you propose this is enforced?

I completely agree @Iquitit

You want it to be mandatory for everyone? How would you propose this is enforced?.

The same way any job requirements are. People have to show proof of exam results or proof of registration of various schemes. Healthcare workers in some roles need TB or hepatitis vaccines.

This is no different.

@Tealightsandd

You want it to be mandatory for everyone? How would you propose this is enforced?.

The same way any job requirements are. People have to show proof of exam results or proof of registration of various schemes. Healthcare workers in some roles need TB or hepatitis vaccines.

This is no different.

No, PP said it should be mandatory for everyone. How would this be enforced?

Sorry didn't read properly. Tired. I was talking only for health and social care staff working with the vulnerable.

Most ppl who know no NHS nurses/Dr/ auxiliary nurses don't realise that there is already a mandatory vaccine.

So for those in the front line it should be mandatory. Whether that's hospitals or care homes.

My employer has made it a requirement now for all new suppprt workers to have had the first or full vaccine.

I'm in two minds.
I don't think anybody should be made to be vaccinated, no.
But I do think HCWs should be vaccinated.

On balance, I don't agree with forcing people as a condition of employment, though.

@Vivana

My employer has made it a requirement now for all new suppprt workers to have had the first or full vaccine.

I think it's different to make that a condition of applying. I think it's more difficult when it's being forced onto those already in employment.