Mandatory Covid jabs for health workers

[WinnieSmith]

"Govt ‘absolutely thinking’ about mandatory Covid jabs for health workers, UK vaccine minister says"

www.rt.com/uk/525218-govt-thinking-mandatory-jabs-healthcare/

Should Covid jabs be mandatory for healthcare workers?

IABU - yes
IANBU - no

Votes so far - looks like the "yes" votes have it!

@Tealightsandd

I have and would never use a private individual's death in an attempt to push a narrative. I did reply to a poster who tried to use her for anti vaxx purposes - to point out that a) her family have asked people not to do this, and b) it is not yet known whether it was the vaccine.

^ this

@Tealightsandd

Have you confused me with another poster Mercy?

I have and would never use a private individual's death in an attempt to push a narrative. I did reply to a poster who tried to use her for anti vaxx purposes - to point out that a) her family have asked people not to do this, and b) it is not yet known whether it was the vaccine.

In response to the poster bringing her into this, who was stating as fact that it was the vaccine, I pointed out that it wasn't yet known and potentially could be Covid.

It is important to correct misinformation - after which I noted that she should not be used in arguments around the topic.

Please don't accuse me of doing something I haven't.

WinnieSmith
Would be interesting to see the results if only care givers get a vote as to what happens to their bodies. As a health care provider myself - I would be genuinely to see if the result would be different. I have had the vaccine- but would not want colleagues to be forced to have it if they were anxious about it.

I work in the private healthcare sector and don't agree with it becoming mandatory for NHS staff. Didn't we learn from the swine flu vaccine? There's still ongoing lawsuits from NHS workers who have had to leave their jobs due to the side effects from that vaccine.

What you have to ask yourself is if you needed lifesaving emergency treatment would you refuse it from someone who hasn't had the vaccine? I highly doubt it.

@JennyBlake

It’s selfish and it’s stupid.

IMHO this kind of comment is not the way to win hearts and minds.

@mamabali

Could you expand / reiterate, please?

Do you mean it would be a good idea to ask the same question only of HCPs?

I agree this would be interesting but it's difficult to "police" it!

Any suggestions?

As pointed out long standing vaccines. I was referring to care homes in the main or hca. Is it even legal to dramatically change their terms of contract like that mid employment?? Oh yeah, in a dictatorship you don’t have bodily autonomy. Funny how we haven’t mandated for other vaccinations for these workers. Flu being the obvious and perhaps deadliest to that demographic. The hysteria around this whipped up by our government is shocking and disproportionate imo. I think this is one of the nails going into the coffin of our liberal democratic society.

Im willing to bet some ................no a LOT of those being forced out of their homes from tomorrow are care/key workers. So this will have distracted from that. If more care workers end up homeless or in shared accomodation (like the care worker on Channel 4 news last year who had to share a kitchen with ten other families) why was no one up in arms about this. Its also a potential infection risk. Ah but that would mean having to do something about housing wouldnt it. Instead of treating tenants as "other"

@Iquitit I completely agree with your insightful and measured posts. I used to work in a care home in 1990/91 and it seems precious little has changed.

Instead of enforcing vaccine- how about providing adequate PPE to protect workers who are anxious about being vaccinated- as well as protecting the people they are giving care to. And I don’t mean the basic surgical masks most of use currently for non-aerosol generating care.

What you have to ask yourself is if you needed lifesaving emergency treatment would you refuse it from someone who hasn't had the vaccine? I highly doubt it.

For vulnerable loved ones and myself, yes. Covid is a worse and slower death than many others.

How is infecting someone with a potentially deadly (and very contagious) disease lifesaving?

Law suits? No one has to work in health or social care. Vulnerable patients and care home residents don't get that same choice. They are reliant on the people supposed caring for them to provide safe care.

And you bet I (and many others) would sue if a vulnerable loved one died as a result of unvaccinated staff - especially if it was a sizeable number of staff (therefore making it an unsafe environment).

You know that many vaccinations are mandatory for people working in care already?

Ok, which vaccinations, and when were they made mandatory for care workers?

Because in my 20 years in care I have never even been asked about my vaccination status for anything, never mind told I can't work unless I have certain ones. It has never been, and not until covid, a condition of being able to work in a care environment.
Some employers have paid for their employees to have a flu jab, no one I've ever worked for though.

As I keep saying, for care workers this is an entirely new expectation, not the simple "add one on to the existing lot" people are insisting it is.
We really weren't that bloody important before covid to warrant protection from anything quite frankly!

care home staff dislike or even hate PPE, it makes most of the job harder to do. You try communicating to someone with dementia and hearing loss who can't see most your face.

There's a shortfall of about 122k in social care (full time equivalent workers). A workforce shortage projected to possibly double by 2030.

Mandatory jabs creates employment barriers in a sector already very short of enough staff.

If nothing else hopefully this will highlight just how bad the care sector is. Far too many staff very very unsuitable for the job. The very opposite of care.

This is a lesson in why its necessary to pay more and offer better working conditions.

Otherwise we continue to entrust precious loved ones to very unsafe environments with little if any care.

One silver lining.

We have no shortage of people in need of a job - many who do have the motivation and aptitude for care.

@ThornAmongstRoses - So how do you feel about Yellow Fever vaccine being mandatory for GPs? Which it is by the way.

I wonder what clever scientist has modelled how much CH staff need to be paid to get the sector workforce to meet demand. 18yo DD worked in a CH, was paid ... £7/hr? My guess is the sector needs to routinely pay £6-£8/hr more (than present pay rate) to not have terrible shortfalls.

1.3 million work in social care
needs 1.4 million
so 100k £15 40 = £60 mln (staff still needed)
1.3 milliion £6 (extra pay to present staff ) 40 = £312 million

Did I calc that right, the extra pay is 'only' £400 million/week? That's £20.8 bln/yr?

@Iquitit

As I keep saying, for care workers this is an entirely new expectation, not the simple "add one on to the existing lot" people are insisting it is.
We really weren't that bloody important before covid to warrant protection from anything quite frankly!

The consensus seems to be that care workers are treated pretty badly ...

[quote StarlightLady]@ThornAmongstRoses - So how do you feel about Yellow Fever vaccine being mandatory for GPs? Which it is by the way.[/quote]
Not that person, but if it is mandatory I think it's a bit daft, seeing as it's not endemic to this country and is spread by mosquitos- so it's pretty vanishing unlikely that a HCP would contract it from anybody else in the first place.

*contract it or pass it on, that should say

Can someone please link to details about compulsory vaccines for UK-trained GPs? That's intriguing.

Considered discussion in nursing times about compulsory vaccination... for measles in late 2019.

Tealightsandd

Perhaps all those care givers / teachers/ nurses / doctors/ porters etc etc who died or got long covid through their line of work should sue.

Perhaps all those whose relatives died in care homes due to people covid positive being discharged there should sue.

There are a lot of people who could sue.

@Tealightsandd

One silver lining.

We have no shortage of people in need of a job - many who do have the motivation and aptitude for care.

Where are they then? Why aren't they out there filling the gaps? I've just done a 60 hour week because we were short staffed, again. And when there's a shortfall of carers, and things go tits up, it'll be the likes of me, who's vaccinated, who does my level best every shift, that gets the blame for 'poor care' by the likes of you because in all honesty, you really don't have a clue. Residents are in far more danger, from covid, due to systematic and institutional failures than unvaccinated workers.

[quote WinnieSmith]@Iquitit

As I keep saying, for care workers this is an entirely new expectation, not the simple "add one on to the existing lot" people are insisting it is.
We really weren't that bloody important before covid to warrant protection from anything quite frankly!

The consensus seems to be that care workers are treated pretty badly ...[/quote]
I can cope with the long hours, the stress, the emotional side, the physical side, the low pay, the low status and training. The shit we've been through this year.

What I can't cope with and makes me want to leave is that all this is is the government trying to divert attention away from the fucking shit show care through covid has been by creating this carp.

Does anyone have actual figures for definite refusals? Not just unvaccinated for any number of reasons? Because I think we need proper figures to work from first before we start sacking people!

[quote StarlightLady]@ThornAmongstRoses - So how do you feel about Yellow Fever vaccine being mandatory for GPs? Which it is by the way.[/quote]
Could you link to that? Gov.uk does not mention it anywhere in their section on Yellow Fever vaccines and who should get them.