DS has a child and doesn't want anything to do with him

[Minewo]

I've been lurking for a while but I'm posting as I need advice.

DS is 19 and split up with his girlfriend a few months ago. The other day the girls mum messaged me (we know each other but aren't close) telling me to tell DS to leave her DD alone and stop asking if they can get back together, as her DD doesn't want to get back with him especially as he cheated on her and has a child. I had no idea, I spoke to DS and he denied it at first but then he admitted he has a child but he doesn't want anything to do with it as he was drunk and he told the girl to have an abortion but she didn't.

I just don't know what to do and I just feel so sad as I thought I brought him up better than for him to just abandon his child

Every single unplanned pregnancy on the face of the earth is the result of an irresponsible male ejaculation. It's biology.

If a man doesn't want to raise a child, he has two options: keep it zipped or use reliable contraception. Deciding contraception is women's business, or refusing to wear a condom, or treating termination as if it were contraception are not appropriate attitudes.

@Ipadannie

I think first of all I would be trying to establish that there definitely is a baby. If this information has come from his ex girlfriend or her mum there wouldn't just be shit stirring maybe? Anyway if there is a new wee life I agree that the first step is a DNA test and if the baby is his a conversation about how he plans to support financially if nothing else. Good luck op - parenting is the hardest job

She's already spoken to her son who confirmed that there's a baby

[quote Loveacoseynightin]@EmeraldShamrock No I am not at all. I think people get too emotional and emotive about these sorts of things.

2 people have sex , girl falls pregnant, man says don't want the child asks for an abortion, women says no I'm keeping the child ok fine but then will expect financial support. Why should any person be held account for a decision they did not make?

From my personal experience as a woman I make damn sure I use contraception because I am the one who has to make that decision and would not want to be in this situation. It is not victim blaming it is taking responsibility and ownership

why would you bring a child into the world when the father of the child doesn't want to know - seems very selfish to me. You have been told and warned that the dad doesn't want to know.

Yes there maybe a small chance he changes his mind but very unlikely[/quote]
Even taking the pill you could end up pregnant. I did. Having sex even while on contraceptives carries a risk of pregnancy, just most people decide it's a risk they'll take for an orgasm.

Males can take ownership of themselves at the point of choosing to ejaculate inside a female. They can take ownership of themselves and reduce the chance the chance of becoming a dad by using the contraceptives available to them, by not having drunken penetrative sex where there's more chance of a condom either not being used or applied clumsily, of not realising it's split. They can reduce the chance by wearing a condom even if their partner says they on the pill. Many men who abandon kids don't do any of the above and then twist on about being hard done by, because all they cared about was fucking.

Even taking the pill there's a chance you could still get pregnant, it happened to me and my husband insisted he would support me in my choice no matter what, he didn't tell me I had to have an abortion or he was fucking off and leaving me to it because it was a risk he knowingly took too. Even if it was a tiny risk, it was still a risk.

I see people often saying things like the man shouldn't be forced into becoming a dad if he doesn't want to, rape aside, he shouldn't be having sex with women he doesn't want the risk of pregnancy with, it might seem unfair but it's biology and it's not women's fault that men aren't the ones carrying babies so get the choice about carrying or aborting.

My daughter's Dad did this to us when our daughter turned 1. Ran off with a nurse, never to be seen again. She's now 6.

His mum said exactly the same as you "I thought I'd brought him up better than to do this"

Some men just don't care

@osbertthehamster- Your post is rude and you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You are also putting words into my mouth.

Oh my GOD, he's NINETEEN! LOL!

He's a immature teenager who needs a kick in the pants because there's a REAL child here who deserves much better.

Many, if not most, of us actual present or past parents of NINETEEN YEAR OLD ADULTS have given them a good talking-to about various foolish decisions that would seriously affect their lives or those of others. RIDICULOUS? Um, no. Not at all. Sorry, kid.

@CoffeeCakey

I'd tell him if he doesn't get a job and start financially supporting his own child at the least then he can't expect you to financially support him.

I would also be telling him to get a DNA test, he slept with when she was drunk, was he the only one? Sorry if that seems unpleasant but having seen at close hand the heartbreak and devastation that can be wrought when things are found six months later I think it's essential.

@Dervel Wow you really have made up quite a story there haven't you?!?! You sound practiced in the art of making excuses up...

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

why would you bring a child into the world when the father of the child doesn't want to know - seems very selfish to me. You have been told and warned that the dad doesn't want to know

Well I brought my first ds into the world on my own. His father was older than me, and I was just a teenager. I was a damn good mum, I now have 3 kids and a lovely dp, home and career. DS's biological father died of a drug over dose recently. How selfish of to bring him into the world knowing that waster didn't want anything to do with him.

I'm sure your son would rather be here with you than not at all

[quote Loveacoseynightin]@EmeraldShamrock No I am not at all. I think people get too emotional and emotive about these sorts of things.

2 people have sex , girl falls pregnant, man says don't want the child asks for an abortion, women says no I'm keeping the child ok fine but then will expect financial support. Why should any person be held account for a decision they did not make?

From my personal experience as a woman I make damn sure I use contraception because I am the one who has to make that decision and would not want to be in this situation. It is not victim blaming it is taking responsibility and ownership

why would you bring a child into the world when the father of the child doesn't want to know - seems very selfish to me. You have been told and warned that the dad doesn't want to know.

Yes there maybe a small chance he changes his mind but very unlikely[/quote]

Because abortion is not contraception.

@Loveacoseynightin
You may wish to punish women for their biology but the reality is it takes two people to have sex and conception is always a potential consequence.

You clearly believe that once a man has ejaculated he bears zero responsibility for the consequences and women should either subject themselves to a medical procedure (which they may not want and which may have emotional or physical consequences) or undertake to raise the child alone bearing solo responsibility for the financial implications of pregnancy and childbirth. In either case it's clear that you don't feel a man should bear any responsibility or suffer any consequences from his decision to have sex but instead the woman alone should bear the consequences of that mutual decision. Why is that?

Don't you think it's rather sexist to expect one party to bear sole responsibility for the consequences of a mutual activity ?

@Amberheartkitty

Err woman get a choice before sex as well. Unless it was rape. She could have not had unprotected sex as well. She’s just as irresponsible as the boy. Unfortunately she’s left holding the baby with no guarantees of any support from the father. That was her choice when she decided to have unprotected sex with a stranger on the first night.

yes she's just as responsible and she's taking responsibility, isn't she?

You sound like a really lovely mum. The obvious things here are. He needs to leave ex alone. Find out who the babys mum is and get a dna test done. (Read some scary stories about women guessing the dad by when she thinks she ovulated, like its a definite, when there is a big window in fact). Make him realise because he asked her to have an abortion does not dissolve him of financial responsibility. And then see if you are able to emotionally support the mum and have a relationship with her and the baby

@Wannakisstheteacher

I think you need to impress upon your son that he doesn’t get to tell anyone to have an abortion and then absolve himself of all responsibilities. At the very, very least he needs to start financially supporting his child.

I hope you can at least build a relationship with your Grandchild - if the DM is willing.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

The woman gets to choose to abort.
The woman gets to choose whether to keep.

And the man gets no say in either of the above.

I think the man should be able to have a similar choice. He can’t tell the woman to abort, but he should be able to walk away.

Not a popular opinion, but I don’t think the male should have no say whatsoever.

@Amberheartkitty

Err woman get a choice before sex as well. Unless it was rape. She could have not had unprotected sex as well. She’s just as irresponsible as the boy. Unfortunately she’s left holding the baby with no guarantees of any support from the father. That was her choice when she decided to have unprotected sex with a stranger on the first night.

Yep and we as a society definitely shouldn't do anything to challenge the inherent misogyny in that situation. Oh no, we should just continue to let feckless men get off Scot free with zero consequences...

@NewlyGranny

Every single unplanned pregnancy on the face of the earth is the result of an irresponsible male ejaculation. It's biology.

If a man doesn't want to raise a child, he has two options: keep it zipped or use reliable contraception. Deciding contraception is women's business, or refusing to wear a condom, or treating termination as if it were contraception are not appropriate attitudes.

AND the woman participating in the act. (I am not including non consensual)

@ANiceCupOfCoffee

You clearly believe that once a man has ejaculated he bears zero responsibility for the consequences and women should either subject themselves to a medical procedure (which they may not want and which may have emotional or physical consequences) or undertake to raise the child alone bearing solo responsibility for the financial implications of pregnancy and childbirth. In either case it's clear that you don't feel a man should bear any responsibility or suffer any consequences from his decision to have sex but instead the woman alone should bear the consequences of that mutual decision. Why is that?

Don't you think it's rather sexist to expect one party to bear sole responsibility for the consequences of a mutual activity ?

[quote Triffid1]@Loveacoseynightin You really don't get it at all. My point was that there are all kinds of situations where someone makes a mistake and that mistake's consequences might be exacerbated by something out of their control. But if the mistake was theirs in the first place, the person doesn't get the option of saying, "oh, but it shouldn't have been a big mistake." That person is still stuck with the responsibility of owning the consequences.

Eg, a child does something a bit naughty - eg turns on the stove. If he's lucky, worst that will happen is he will burn his finger. But it's possible the entire kitchen might go up in flames and he will be badly burnt. Consequences are unpredictable. Which is why we try to teach our children not to do things that could lead to negative consequences. For every consequence that might be relatively minor, there's still the chance that through unforeseen/unpredicted events, it will be much more serious.[/quote]
@Triffid1 There is an option though that is the point.

The problem is if that option isn't taken it then becomes an issue because you are bringing a child into the world when the father doesn't want it and then is expected to part fund that decision. If the parent doesn't want the Parental Responsibility and has been quite explicit about that prior to child being born should why should they fund it?

[quote KidneyBeans]@ANiceCupOfCoffee

You clearly believe that once a man has ejaculated he bears zero responsibility for the consequences and women should either subject themselves to a medical procedure (which they may not want and which may have emotional or physical consequences) or undertake to raise the child alone bearing solo responsibility for the financial implications of pregnancy and childbirth. In either case it's clear that you don't feel a man should bear any responsibility or suffer any consequences from his decision to have sex but instead the woman alone should bear the consequences of that mutual decision. Why is that?

Don't you think it's rather sexist to expect one party to bear sole responsibility for the consequences of a mutual activity ?[/quote]
If they don't want a baby I'm sure there is protection that can be used

Your son has let you down here OP. Any way of talking to the ex to ask whether she knows the mother of your grandchild?

Once a baby is born, the baby's rights are, or should be, the top priority.

[quote KidneyBeans]@ANiceCupOfCoffee

You clearly believe that once a man has ejaculated he bears zero responsibility for the consequences and women should either subject themselves to a medical procedure (which they may not want and which may have emotional or physical consequences) or undertake to raise the child alone bearing solo responsibility for the financial implications of pregnancy and childbirth. In either case it's clear that you don't feel a man should bear any responsibility or suffer any consequences from his decision to have sex but instead the woman alone should bear the consequences of that mutual decision. Why is that?

Don't you think it's rather sexist to expect one party to bear sole responsibility for the consequences of a mutual activity ?[/quote]
No.

I believe that after the act, both parties have a choice but they are different.

1. She can choose to keep it or abort it. The man gets no say in this.
2. He can choose to be a part of its life, or walk away. The woman gets no say in this.

The man can’t force the woman to abort it or keep it.
The woman can’t force the man to be a part of the child rearing, or force the man to stay away.

@Loveacoseynightin
You haven't actually answered any of my questions.

Here's another one
If as you suggest there should be zero consequences for men who impregnate women as a result of consensual sex then why on Earth would they ever practice responsible contraception?

Um. He did have a choice. His choice was between making a baby or not making a baby. He chose to make a baby (by not preventing it).

The choice to continue a pregnancy or not continue a pregnancy is for the woman to decide only.

The OP's son chose to make a baby and now he should be paying for it.

If they don't want a baby I'm sure there is protection that can be used

1. No contraceptive offers 100 protection (other than both parties abstaining
2. The woman expects the choice after an accident, the man should be able to have equal (although different) choice.

@BadNomad

Um. He did have a choice. His choice was between making a baby or not making a baby. He chose to make a baby (by not preventing it).

The choice to continue a pregnancy or not continue a pregnancy is for the woman to decide only.

The OP's son chose to make a baby and now he should be paying for it.

Um. She did had equal choice.

The choice to continue a pregnancy or not continue a pregnancy is for the woman to decide only.

I’m not denying her choice. I am saying he should have the choice whether to support the pregnancy or walk away.

I think there’s a lot of talking about the world as one would like it to be rather than it is. Obviously I’ve discussed with my children how important contraception is and don’t let a rash mistake leave you with unintended consequences blah blah. However if an unintended pregnancy happened, the reality is that it would be my daughter who would have to choose whether to have the baby and all the hard work that entails or to have an abortion. Especially if it was a one night stand rather than a relationship. My son would have to go along with a decision made by someone else and face the consequences. And all those people lecturing on men have choices not to have sex etc-it’s human nature and always has been to have hormones take over rational thought in the heat of the moment. For thousands of years. At least women have far more choice now than ever before. Shotgun weddings.Tess of the D’Urbervilles. It has ever been thus, and history and literature are full of it.