To think modern life is shit for mums

[barelycoping1]

I have a 1 year old son and would give anything to be a SAHM. I don’t want to put him in nursery or with a childminder, I’m his mum and I want to bring him up myself - not pay someone else to do it. I want to spend every precious moment with him because he’s our first and last and I’ll never get to experience this special time again.

Sadly though I have no choice but to return to work so we can pay our mortgage and bills. I don’t earn that much more than the cost of nursery, but it is about £350 difference every month so worth it.

I just feel sad that I don’t have a choice in the matter thanks to the sodding cost of living and sky high rents/mortgages now. I wish we were back in the days where one salary could easily cover the mortgage on an average home. Hose prices have essentially adjusted now to mean that both parents need to work to keep a roof over their heads.

Also because I’m back at work, my free time is a constant battle trying to keep the house in order and deal with life admin. I’ve lost touch with quite a few friends because I have so little time.

AIBU to hate the fact that I have to go back to work and to feel sad that I’m missing out on time with my son? I know some people will say to find a job I love, but there’s no job in the world that I’d rather do than be a SAHM.

I feel so stretched all the time and like I’m on a hamster wheel and can’t get off. If this is what having it all means then it’s just shit, sorry. What can I do to change my life for the better?

Each and every one of us have different experiences of this age old issue which will vary based on area living costs, earnings potential, partner's contribution, childcare costs etc. I know I'm stating the obvious but if you really want to change your situation (i.e less working and more time at home) then what from the above list can you change? Can you get a better paid job/retrain? Can you move to a cheaper area? Also, once your dc is of school age, your child care costs will plummet anyway so this is a short term issue. Whatever you decide to do, I would urge you to not forego work altogether as maintaining your financial independence/private pension is extremely important.

All women?

Or just some women?
Because, some women do have choices but it is important to recognise the structural barriers that are unique to women and their choices around work.

Naturally it depends on where you are in the world as well as your socio economic background and all sorts of other factors. A heterosexual upper class white woman in the UK is going to have significantly more choice than a working class low-caste woman in India. That's obvious. I still don't think that even the heterosexual rich white woman has as much choice as she thinks she does. We don't make choices in a vacuum.

Personally as a feminist I don't think equality has been achieved until all women (and by that I do mean adult human females) have it. So we have a massively long way to go.

I don't know if anyone has ever done that science exercise with DC where you get a length of rope which represents the age of the earth and then point out that humankind only started very near to the end of the rope? Meaning we've hardly been on this planet any time at all. I think it's the same with women and equality. We might have come a long way since 1918 (or whatever), but in terms of the rope we've barely moved a centimetre.

.. the kids were left alone to look after each other and raise themselves while women did never ending essential domestic chores ...

Ha h,yes

He works very long hours so not sure how that would be possible really.

I'm suspicious of men using long hours as an excuse to get out of pulling their weight at home. Before I had children, I came across many men who were delighted to get back into the office on a Monday morning. If it wasn't a busy period, often the first thing many of them did was go for a leisurely breakfast in the canteen. And to the gym at lunchtime. They rarely left before 7pm/8pm (so conveniently missing bathtime and bedtime), but had usually had at least a couple of hours downtime during the day. Meanwhile, the few working mothers would be hurrying through their work and eating lunch at their desks to get home by 7pm to relieve the nanny (high-paid profession).

I'm not saying your OH is in this category or that work isn't stressful for him, but I hate the assumption that working long hours is automatically more stressful than working shorter hours and being the domestic skivvy. Maybe for a nurse or doctor who does gruelling 12 hour shifts but not for most office workers.

HOWEVER, I have to say that my feminist position on this is often confused as I also strongly believe that the wellbeing of children is of paramount importance. And sometimes what is best for children isn't necessarily what is best for women.

@Needanewhat

Imagine losing the skills of half the childbearing age population in the workplace as they are stuck at home

I agree with you in principle but do you not see how problematic your language around SAHMs is here. "Stuck" indeed!

From my entire post you would see I was referring to the past when there was a lot less choice. A lot more women were stuck, and some are now too.

I agree with you, maybe things weren’t easier 50-60+ years ago, but they certainly were 20/30 years ago. Both mine and my fiancée’s mothers were able to not work while we were children, this was because they were given substantial benefits and rented from the council so they could afford to raise a family on one wage, they then purchased their council houses for a fraction of their true value. Also, our dads were able to obtain jobs straight out of secondary school with no qualifications and enjoyed a steady stream of promotions to the point where they earn very good wages. None of this is possible anymore unfortunately. So yes I think mothers did have it easier in the past than they do now.

Some of us have marvellous husbands and fathers to their children.

I think mine is a marvellous husband and father (especially considering his mother still changed his bedding and did his laundry right up until he left home for uni, so by rights he should be absolutely awful), and he's certainly MUCH tidier than I am (and way better at housework) but I still don't think he takes on an equal share of the mental load. He definitely recognises that and takes steps to change it.

@Needanewhat

All women?

Or just some women?
Because, some women do have choices but it is important to recognise the structural barriers that are unique to women and their choices around work.

Naturally it depends on where you are in the world as well as your socio economic background and all sorts of other factors. A heterosexual upper class white woman in the UK is going to have significantly more choice than a working class low-caste woman in India. That's obvious. I still don't think that even the heterosexual rich white woman has as much choice as she thinks she does. We don't make choices in a vacuum.

Personally as a feminist I don't think equality has been achieved until all women (and by that I do mean adult human females) have it. So we have a massively long way to go.

I don't know if anyone has ever done that science exercise with DC where you get a length of rope which represents the age of the earth and then point out that humankind only started very near to the end of the rope? Meaning we've hardly been on this planet any time at all. I think it's the same with women and equality. We might have come a long way since 1918 (or whatever), but in terms of the rope we've barely moved a centimetre.

I'm a lecturer in women's career development. There definitely are degrees of choice and multiple factors that impact this.

This last year has shown us we have a long way to go before we are even close to equality.

Doesn't sound so much like a SAHP vs working debate, but rather a 'help, I want to get off the treadmill that is modern life'

I get you. Totally do. What's the point in working long hours in a miserable job, spending the weekend traipsing round out of town shopping centres doing the stuff you couldn't do in the week, constantly feeling that you're slightly failing at everything by trying to do everything.

Have you ever watched the Kate Humble programme about people moving to the country? It always surprised me, average couples living a totally normal average life who think 'I've had enough, we're all miserable' and take some positive steps to improve their day to day.

Essentially they move for more space and a simpler life, there's no talk of expensive holidays etc, but they all seem happy and fulfilled and spend more time together. Might be worth watching as you assess what's important.

Hope you find a solution that works for you

How come you meed to do all the cleaning? Where is your partner/ husband?

No. I think we’ve never had it so good in terms of options available to us. I certainly wouldn’t want to go back in time to an era where I was financially dependent on a husband, my role was seen as nothing more than a parent by default.

Having said that we all make choices that can make our lives easier or harder, more rewarding or less so. I chose to wait to have kids until I was early thirties and had a stable, well paid career, and chose to only consider marrying a man with the same. It was also crucial to me to have an equal parent for a spouse who would do as much childcare and mental and emotional labour around the home as me. So once we had children we both were able to go part time from our enjoyable, interesting jobs, we have lots of free time with our child and enjoy work while we’re there.

None of this was handed over to us, we both grew up in poverty, on a council estate, first in our families to go to university. It’s been a hard slog but putting the work in first to ensure our careers, incomes and life stability were in a good place has afforded us a lot of options. I spent a decade working jobs I hated and it’s terrible for your soul (and someone has to do them), i would hate to be combining that with raising a child.

Of course we have had some privileges that afforded us the ability to succeed with hard work where some don’t. Some people work hard their whole lives for little reward.

Checkingout811
I think if you want or need an income you should work for it if you can. Obviously if you have a trust fund or inherited wealth that doesn’t apply, although I still think having some sort of purpose makes people happier. Re SAHM or rather SAHP, I was one a very long time ago till youngest went to school.We were quite hard up and both DH and I worked a couple of evenings to make finances work.I then went p/t which was great; it’s so long ago that there were very few private nurseries for under 4s. I would like to see subsidised care for small children as I think they do benefit from at least a few sessions at nursery and I do sympathise with women who really need to work FT to survive, I would like to see more support for a parent to stay at home till child is perhaps 3. The Scandi countries as ever seem to have this sorted, but my understanding is that most women do work. Their tax rates are very high and I doubt this would be a vote winner for any party in reality. However having children is a personal choice for most these days

Yes, the pandemic has seriously thrown into focus how much women still do. It doesn't matter how much individual posters claim their own husbands do, the statistics show us that the responsibility for the domestic and mental load still overwhelmingly falls to women, even when working full time.

And employers don't help, with their "flexible working policies" that aren't actually flexible. Two examples of these I saw during school closures were:

1. The employer who claimed they were being flexible because they "only" required parents with children at home to work "core hours" of 10-4.

2. The employer who claimed they were being flexible because although their employees still had to work a 5 day week, they could work any 5 days out of 7.

I maintain, clearly unpopularly, that the best thing in the early years (and frankly throughout childhood) is for a child to have a parent at home with them who is engaged, happy and supported to be there.

There are obviously many nuanced reasons why that often isn't possible.

Grumpy comments as there on every mumsnet post!
I agree, i work evenings and never seem to sit down! I have loads of other mums on my street and locally but it's like playdates are a thing of the past! Wish we lived in a time when things were a little simpler! I find modern mum life quite draining and repetitive! (Maybe im a little off topic but i understand the general of what you say in your post)

I think is women have been sold a pup on we can have it all. We really can't and I think western society needs to address this.

@Elsiebear90

I agree with you, maybe things weren’t easier 50-60+ years ago, but they certainly were 20/30 years ago. Both mine and my fiancée’s mothers were able to not work while we were children, this was because they were given substantial benefits and rented from the council so they could afford to raise a family on one wage, they then purchased their council houses for a fraction of their true value. Also, our dads were able to obtain jobs straight out of secondary school with no qualifications and enjoyed a steady stream of promotions to the point where they earn very good wages. None of this is possible anymore unfortunately. So yes I think mothers did have it easier in the past than they do now.

Not for everyone. My dad had a job from school in the 1950s with A-Level equivalent qualifications but was repeatedly made redundant in the 1980s in a shrinking industry, after that he had various low paid manual work jobs until he retired. My mum always worked after I started school and was the higher earner sometimes. They definitely needed two salaries, mortgage interest rates were 15%. They could only afford one child. Holidays were a week in a caravan in Wales, never went abroad. We nearly lost the house in the early 1990s recession.

These threads are always so depressing. The woman talks about juggling work, raising the kids, cooking, housework, admin - where the fuck is her partner in all of this? Why do so many of us accept this bullshittery? Raising a family and running a home with another person is a partnership. We all deserve to be with someone who takes responsibility for their share of the work.

OP
Your answer to anyone suggesting your DH steps up more at home is something effect of "but he works long hours... he works crazy long hours... but it would be unfair on him".

He presumably chose to have a child so he needs to adjust his life accordingly, and that means doing his share at home. If he is the one arguing he can't pull his weight at home, he doesn't get to pull the 'big demanding man job' card to get out of it.

Equally, you chose to have a child, so you don't get to milk the 'but he has a big man job' to arhue you need to stay home because big man can't do his share, when the reality is you want to stay home (which is a valid choice btw, but it needs owning in its own right not because you're so busy mopping up after a husband who doesn't so his share).

Did you and your husband speak properly about working vs staying home before the baby arrived? It has to be something that both people are fully on board with. It's entirely possible that he doesn't want to be a breadwinner, and that's entirely his right, but he has to pull his weight at home.

Haven't RTFT but I think YABU on the basis on the assumption that modern day life is shit for all mums. I work FT in a professional job that wouldn't have been open to my mum, have my own income, a DH who splits household chores and parenting with me on who is best placed to do what needs doing and not on who is male or female, in addition to having time to pursue my own interests outside work and children. Modern life affords me this and I am very happy. My SAHM feels proud that I am living a life that wasn't open to her when I was a child.

Did you and your husband speak properly about working vs staying home before the baby arrived? It has to be something that both people are fully on board with. It's entirely possible that he doesn't want to be a breadwinner, and that's entirely his right, but he has to pull his weight at home.

TBH I think it's almost pointless to have that conversation before the baby gets there. Pre baby I'd have said hell would freeze over before I'd be a SAHM. Baby got here. He's six now, and I never went back to work. Go figure.

I think is women have been sold a pup on we can have it all. We really can't and I think western society needs to address this.

^ I agree with that.

I used to work Fri/Sat/Sun evenings in a shop. 5 hours each evening. I earned about £400 at the time but it would be more now as minimum wage has gone up - over £500 now I think. No tax to pay as didn’t earn over the threshold. Lots of time with my child and no childcare required as worked around my husbands job.

I think is women have been sold a pup on we can have it all. We really can't and I think western society needs to address this

Very much depends on what you think having it all means. Lots of us have jobs/careers as well as family life and have a good balance of both.

Just look at the Jane Austen's novels. You need to marry well. If you think life is better to be a SAHM with luxury, then follow those women and marry someone rich so you don't have to work.

Or be born in a rich family.

Otherwise, you will have to be someone's housekeeper or nanny or governor.

Life hasn't changed.