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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable

261 replies

DoolallyBinzes · 24/05/2021 22:36

There is so much to this story but the bare bones of it are that when I was with my ex we borrowed money from my Mum to pay our rent. We had only paid a small amount of it back when he left me. I had no money, no job, nowhere to live and 3 children to look after.
10 years later, Mum has died and my brother says I have to pay all the money back. I’m happy to pay half but I don’t see why I should pay for my ex’s share especially when he now has plenty of money.

OP posts:
fakeplantsdontlookreal · 25/05/2021 11:46

Well done OP, you are doing the right thing. It is hard to let go of resentment of the past, but do that, repay it, forget about the ex and let it all go. It is never worth causing family upset over, and you are being fair to everyone.

GreyhoundG1rl · 25/05/2021 11:49

you can’t pay her the money back, she’s gone.
That's not how it actually works. It's recoverable, it's part of her estate.

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 25/05/2021 11:50

@StopPokingTheRoyalTitDear

She owes her mum's estate the money. It was loan. Which was documented. When someone dies, their estate can still claim back any monies owed to them.

The only reason it wasnt paid back when she was alive was because the woman had dementia and had forgotten, so the OP just didnt bother. That's not ok. She's trying to back track from that now, but she admitted that she could afford to pay it, but that her mum didnt remember the debt.

Campervanna · 25/05/2021 11:56

@DoolallyBinzes

Reasons I didn’t pay Mum back:- no money, on housing benefit; looking after Mum, on Carer’s Allowance; cancer, 6 months treatment, 6 months recovery; added the debt to the long list of money to be reconciled eventually. My conscience is completely clear regarding Mum. She was a wonderful Mum and I wouldn’t have borrowed the money from her if she couldn’t have afforded it. I certainly never took advantage of her. I’m going to pay the debt back into the estate. I feel it’s the right thing to do and I need to let go of my feelings of injustice regarding my ex.
I agree that is the right thing to do. Not the fairest, but the right thing.

I also looked after my dm in her final years, while the rest of my siblings (despite all living within 2 miles of her and with no young children), pretty much ignored her. I really lost out financially as I had to turn down work to look after her, especially in her final 6 months, but her health and well-being was the most important thing to me.

As soon as she died my siblings went from not being interested, to wanting their share of things, including my brother taking my key to her house off me in case I removed anything! Hmm Her estate was split 4 ways. They even tried to take back some (not expensive, but personal) jewellery, which my mother had given me, over the years! I wouldn’t have minded if they had shown as much interest when she was alive!

The upside was that, after her funeral, I no longer had to keep in touch or speak to them anymore!

leftout1 · 25/05/2021 11:59

Pay the money back to whom? Your mother isn't around to receive it

To the Estate obviously.

You owe each brother £2k. I'm glad you're going to pay it, it's the right thing to do.

StopPokingTheRoyalTitDear · 25/05/2021 11:59

[quote Librariesmakeshhhhappen]@StopPokingTheRoyalTitDear

She owes her mum's estate the money. It was loan. Which was documented. When someone dies, their estate can still claim back any monies owed to them.

The only reason it wasnt paid back when she was alive was because the woman had dementia and had forgotten, so the OP just didnt bother. That's not ok. She's trying to back track from that now, but she admitted that she could afford to pay it, but that her mum didnt remember the debt.[/quote]
Yeah fair enough and I hold my hands up that I don’t know much about this stuff so happy to be corrected Smile

CoffeeCakey · 25/05/2021 12:08

I was just a bit taken aback when my brother mentioned it, as if I’d forgotten about it, and I asked what about my ex’s share?

I think he was probably annoyed you hadn't paid it back while she was alive. I'm still confused as to if you could have afforded to and just didn't or not. And your ex's share should have been sorted between you and your ex at the time, unfortunately if he didn't give you half then you have to pay that back to the estate.

Whythesadface · 25/05/2021 12:08

I suppose it depends om how much money is left in the estate.
Also the money should be taken off how much you are getting,
So if it's £6k, you would get £2k back anyway, but if the estate is only worth say £10k then your £6k is rather a large part of the money.
Can you go after your Ex through the small claims courts for his £3k?

Baffy · 25/05/2021 12:38

Sounds like the right decision from you to put it back into the estate and then it will be shared equally between the 3 of you.

Agree with pp's though that your brother's motives don't sound great to me. But as you say, you haven't told us about their circumstances or financial situation so maybe this is the fairest thing to do.

Sorry for your loss

Bythemillpond · 25/05/2021 12:39

If you were sole carer for your mother and for a length of time how much money did you receive for your revives and time.
If you had gone out and got a job and split the cost of employing someone for 24 hour care of your mother would that come to £6k or would it have been more?

For the sake of harmony I wouldn’t pay the money back into the estate. (Would the tax man take a cut of the extra £6k) I would adjust the final figures with each of your brothers getting £3k more each.

I think it is nit picking of your brother to demand the repayment especially if he didn’t bare the brunt of the caring

Nocutenamesleft · 25/05/2021 12:44

We had something similar. My uncle borrowed nearly 100k to stray up a business. It was said in word that it would come out of inheritance.

However when my grandmother died. It wasn’t written. So we had to legally follow the will. Fortunately it didn’t break us all up. But money can and does bring bad blood as such.

My condolences to you. But legally your brother doesn’t have a leg to stand in unless it was written in the will.

BillyTodd · 25/05/2021 12:55

I wonder if the brothers helped any with the care and looking after the estate of the mum while she had dementia. I'm guessing not. And they'll perhaps express insincere platitudes of thanks that OP did it, excuses why they would have done but couldn't, but the sad fact of the matter is that it's so often the daughters who do all the bloody care legwork, sacrifice their time, energy, career opportunities and money for zero payback. It makes me so angry how it is almost always left to the women and the men very rarely if ever even consider that they perhaps either help physically or financially, or recognise and give a % of their inheritance to the sibling who did all of the harrowing hard work.

Rant over. And before anybody misreads me I agree with what OP has decided to do. I entirely recognise that the brothers have zero obligation to, but wouldn't it be nice if they'd have written off the debt because the sister did everything (I'm assuming she did, it certainly sounds like she did the majority of it) and/or recognised her contribution with a financial contribution from their part of the estate to her.

Flowers
LettyLoman · 25/05/2021 12:57

Can't your brother just knock the amount off the estate. so you get half minus the amount you owe? Have you declared the gift? not sure if you need to after 10 years.

neverearlythoughItry · 25/05/2021 12:59

My sister owed my Mum money which she paid back to the estate after Mum died. Didn't need to be asked, it was always assumed she would.

Bythemillpond · 25/05/2021 13:08

I wonder if there is some sort of contract that people who take time off to care for parents can sign that when it comes to splitting inheritance that they get an extra percentage or weekly wage paid out of the estate.

stayathomer · 25/05/2021 13:12

Debts don't die on death. How many more times does this need saying.
I can see why people think they do though! And personally if I ever loan my kids money I hope to god they don't go after the person I was obviously trying to dig out at the time!!!!!

stayathomer · 25/05/2021 13:13

My sister owed my Mum money which she paid back to the estate after Mum died. Didn't need to be asked, it was always assumed she would.

Assumed by who though?

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 25/05/2021 13:17

@Bythemillpond

Why would you give the boys £3000 extra each? That makes no sense. It doesnt make it even. You're maths is very wrong.

The OP got £6k. She has £6000 more than her brothers. If you give them each £3000 and split the rest equally, she still ends up with more than them.

Either they each take £6000 (so all three of them now have £6k from their mum) and then split the remaining estate equally, or the OP hands back the £6k she got and they split to total estate three way. Those 2 options both end up with all 3 siblings having the same amount.

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 25/05/2021 13:18

@Bythemillpond

And that's called a will. The parent can write a will leaving additional funds to the child who cares for them.

knittingaddict · 25/05/2021 13:24

@SpiderinaWingMirror

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like this. My mum has " lent" money to my dbro. In reality she doesn't expect it back. Her will stipulates whatever she has gets left split between us. There is nothing about loans or gifts. So that is what will happen. During her life she is free to give what she wants to anyone.
That's because it was a gift, not a loan. In the op's case there is paperwork to say it's a loan, so therefore forms part of the accounting for the estate.

Honestly this should have gone in legal matters. Fewer replies maybe, but not so many ill informed and unhelpful posts.

honeylulu · 25/05/2021 13:26

@Campervanna

Yes sorry! She owes £6k to the estate or £2k to each brother if she wants to keep it separate.

knittingaddict · 25/05/2021 13:33

@Whythesadface

I suppose it depends om how much money is left in the estate. Also the money should be taken off how much you are getting, So if it's £6k, you would get £2k back anyway, but if the estate is only worth say £10k then your £6k is rather a large part of the money. Can you go after your Ex through the small claims courts for his £3k?
There's a house. I don't think the op is going to be poverty stricken.
EverythingRuined · 25/05/2021 15:11

OP, out of interest, would you have offered to pay the money back if your brother hadn’t mentioned it?

moynomore · 25/05/2021 15:26

@Donitta

Your mum lent the money to YOU. Not to your ex who was nothing to her. To YOU. So YOU are liable to repay her the full amount. Whether you still owe the money now she’s gone is a different matter. Personally I’d say it’s fair for you to repay £2000 to each brother and keep the other £2000 as your share from the inheritance.
The OP hasn't said the money wasn't also lent to her ex. OP says "we" borrowed the money, so, depending on the terms of the contract, he could certainly also be the debtor. Debts to a deceased person become debts to the estate.
moynomore · 25/05/2021 15:28

@StopPokingTheRoyalTitDear

I’m another person saying the debt died with your mother- you can’t pay her the money back, she’s gone. What your brother actually means is he wants you to give him the money. But you don’t owe your brother any money because you didn’t borrow it from him.
This is 100% wrong. The debt is to the estate and the brother is one of the beneficiaries, so indirectly, the OP does owe the brother.