I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable

[DoolallyBinzes]

There is so much to this story but the bare bones of it are that when I was with my ex we borrowed money from my Mum to pay our rent. We had only paid a small amount of it back when he left me. I had no money, no job, nowhere to live and 3 children to look after.
10 years later, Mum has died and my brother says I have to pay all the money back. I’m happy to pay half but I don’t see why I should pay for my ex’s share especially when he now has plenty of money.

I don't know how people can say the DB is being petty with the limited information that we have.

We have no information about his financial status - perhaps he too was struggling to make ends meet but didn't want to borrow off his DM.

Even if he isn't if he knows that the DM saw the money as a loan not a gift - which she clearly did hence the letter saying so - then the fair split takes it into account.

Sorry thought I'd read all your posts. The arrangement was between you and your mum.

Also, who cared for mum in her last days? Betting it wasn't your brothers.

@NoBetterthanSheShouldBe

DD and her partner did almost exactly the same to me. She still owes me although her lifestyle is at least as good as mine - idk what she earns.

Not going to chase her for it but I’d expect it to be taken into account in any inheritance.

I think your situation is different as you will presumably reflect this in your will.

Have you asked dd for the money?

If I've understood correctly I imagine DB is annoyed you decided to take advantage of your mum's dementia and not pay her back. And are now using your ex as an excuse.

Really tricky to tell. Morally you should pay the £4K back. It’s not great that you chose to stop paying her back once she forgot about it. But the brothers could also let it slide if they are very well off and understand that you were in need at the time. And also they could let it slide in recognition of any end of life care work you took on. For tax reasons, settle this outside of the estate. Legal advice is pricey, and if you ask a lawyer involved in the estate you might have to put it back into probate calculations, which is not good if there is IHT to settle.

I'm really surprised that the voting on this is almost a 50/50 split. Are people not aware that a will is a legal document and thst probate and being an executor come with a whole host of things that you absolutely must do and things that you can't do under any circumstances.

The executor has to be whiter than white and the waters have been muddied by this executor having a debt to the estate. The debt has paperwork which the brothers appear to be aware of. The op can't afford to ignore this. It is a small sum of money compared with the money from the sale of property and the op would be daft to do anything other than own the dept.

I think your attitude iof your brothers having more money so they dont need it is disgusting.

You can argue if you want to that you shouldnt have to pay it but it was significant and you will basically ruin a relationshio with your family if you don't.

BUT he arguement you only pay half as half is your exes is bullshit. Total fucking bullshit.

We have similar in both mine and my DH's families. Reasonably well off siblings plus a sibling who has needed help. On my DH's side I know that the two wealthiest siblings will fight to get the "loan" taken into account during the carving up, but my DH is of the opinon that his sibling needed that money at the time, so the estate should just be split as it it. In my family, my sibling and I wouldn't dream of making our sister take a lesser share because she has needed help.
I hope this is all resolved for you without fall outs. It is so important even in the closet families that the intentions of the deceased are crystal clear.

Did you stop paying her back because she had dementia and forgot? Or did she forget well before that so you stopped?

Basically, did you think you could get away with it because she was old?

You should have paid that money back, even if it was slowly over years. Since it's a debt to her, I think morally your brothers should each get £2000 from your share.

@knittingaddict

I'm really surprised that the voting on this is almost a 50/50 split. Are people not aware that a will is a legal document and thst probate and being an executor come with a whole host of things that you absolutely must do and things that you can't do under any circumstances.

The executor has to be whiter than white and the waters have been muddied by this executor having a debt to the estate. The debt has paperwork which the brothers appear to be aware of. The op can't afford to ignore this. It is a small sum of money compared with the money from the sale of property and the op would be daft to do anything other than own the dept.

I missed that there was a signed letter in place. Veering towards OP should pay now.

And this is precisely why we gift money to our children and don't do loans. Recipe for disaster.

Yes, morally I think you do owe your £2K extra each in the way your DM's estate is divided up. If she'd basically told you that you didn't need to repay the money then that's one thing but clearly that didn't happen, so your debt to her estate is still there and you should do the right thing.

I don't think that unless your DM did gift you the money on the understanding that you were more needy than your brothers, their 'wealthier' status comes into it.

It is demoralising though to see people being so petty about inheritances. If your DB really are comfortably off does £2K extra really make much difference in the scheme of things?

I think you should pay it back to the estate. Your mum clearly wanted things to be equal. You taking a 6k handout when the intentions were for you to pay it back is wrong.
You took the money so it’s your responsibility, it doesn’t matter what it was for.

Jesus my siblings wouldn't be so pathetic.
It's 6k. Your mother lent it to you, she's now passed away (sympathies OP). The debt was to her, not to her estate. Your mother will not benefit from this, only your brother.
Pay it to him after you sell the house then wash your hands of him.

I am executor for my dads estate.
Money owed to my dad before he died IS part of the estate as far as I know. Example. I informed all relevant government departments of his death. There was a tax rebate paid to his estate. State pension sent money to his estate.
As executor I am required to keep financial information of all money paid to and from his estate.
The money you owed your mum definitely needs to go into the pot. Though you may not physically have that money now, as a pp said it can come from your share. I would say it does definitely have to be included in financial info though.

If I loaned money to one of my DDs, I would commit it to paper as OP's mother did, for this very reason. I want my DDs treated equally on my death. The money owed to me should be part of my estate in this situation. So it might well be the very reason that the DM on this situation wrote the letter.

The debt was to her, and her wishes should be respected in death.

Sorry to here about your Mum. I think that if your Mum had wanted it back she would have asked for it, there was plenty of time.

@DoolallyBinzes

I am the Executor of Mum’s will. Her estate (house) is equally shared between me and my 2 brothers. One brother wants me to pay the money back to the estate. He had independent Power of Attorney as did I but hasn’t mentioned this money until now. The house is being sold. I have been able to pay the money back over the last 5 years but I was looking after Mum’s account. Sadly she had dementia so totally forgot about the money. She did sign a letter saying she had lent the money to me and my husband.

Then you have to pay it back

@JadeandGreen

The debt died with your mum. Your brother is out of order. Is he really willing to sacrifice his relationship with you over this? If he is, cut him off and move on. I think it's really sad that your brother is putting you in this position. I'm sorry for your loss

Debt does not die with a person - the debt forms part of the estate.

@MizMoonshine

Well the waters have been muddied a bit by the revelation of dementia. The money was loaned with paperwork created to document it and the fact that it had to be repaid. The OP didnt pay it back and says the mum forgot because of dementia. It sounds like a child taking advantage of a parent because they became ill, and financially gaining from it. That's not ok and shouldn't the forgotten about. The brothers are not pathetic for being angry over this.

That’s what I thought too @Librariesmakeshhhhappen
This whole ‘I’m not paying my ex’s share’ is bullshit as well. Imagine that in the real world if you took a loan out in your own name.

It’s actually disgusting op. No wonder you won’t give the full story.

It doesn't matter why you don't want to pay your exs share because the debt is yours.

We had a similar situation and tried to even it up. DF died, he’d given two of the three siblings approx £10K and was expected to give the same to the third. We split that £20K three ways, so all ended up with just under £7K and then split the estate three ways. All believed it to be fair and what DF would have wanted.

If your mum didn’t stipulate any payment plan to pay her back then the debt dies with her surely?

No, debts don't die with the creditor with or without a payment plan, they are still owed to the estate. Think about it - if you died just before payday, do you really think your employer should be entitled to keep your last month's salary and all pay owed in lieu of holiday?

It's especially bad with the admittance that she could have paid back the loan for the last 5 years because she's had enough money to do it, but mum had dementia and she was in charge of mum's account, and mum couldnt remember so she just didnt bother. That's disgusting.